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Going childless in the U.S. - Page 9

post #121 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
You can't say you know what it's like. That's like a priest saying he knows what it's like to be married. That being said I'm 20 and not sure if I want kids. I do know that although my parents have had a tough time raising me and my two younger brothers they are very proud of us now that we are coming around and making something of ourselves. I think life with just one person would get lonely. That's just me though. Even if you are one of a million I don't think you will even begin to understand what it feels like to be responsible for another life. Whether that sucks or not is not for me to decide or pass judgement.
I find this fairly ridiculous, mainly because the analogy does not hold. I agree that a celibate priest cannot know what it's like to be married -- the closeness of the bond, sex, etc. But why can one not know/understand what it feels like to be responsible for another life? A 90+ year old with Alzheimer's can be even more dependent than a toddler -- and of course that is only one manifestation of care from a non-parental role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
I've taken care of people all my life, since 14 or so (at a low level then, and increasing constantly, recently come down from an incredibly high peak). I'm not married, no prospects at present. I do not particularly have any desire to have kids because I am tired of taking care of people; besides there's almost zero likelihood that I would have a child before 30. I missed a lot of life and want to have some fun for a time, preferably with a like-minded woman. Fun, for me, is defined as not constantly having to plan around another who cannot care for themself. The only real reasons I would consider kids is if I find someone special who has a child, or if we decided to adopt. Both of those options would have the full depth of my soul behind them. There are so many needy kids out there, and so many parents having 5+ kids; the disparity makes it seem heartless to have children of my 'own,' though I in no way intend that to be a criticism of others' choices.
Now, if you were to say that a childless person cannot know what it feels like to have their own progeny, their own child by blood, I tend to agree. But you would be on very thin ice around adoptive parents to in some way imply that there might be some less bond. ~ Huntsman
post #122 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post
Well, Im back and already have forgotten your point. Something about how people who have kids tend to take more than they contribute to society (please correct me if Im off base). Im saying this cant be true in the longterm. Far more important than any economic efficiency to a society is the simple idea that people stop contributing to that society once they are dead. Future generations will always trump the rock solid balance sheets of generations past and we all arrive too soon at that point where, no matter our past glory or place in the hierarchy, are merely shrunken old men and woman laying delirious in a bed crapping themselves.

You just need to go re-read things. You're missing fundamental points.
post #123 of 175
I dont understand why anyone would care if some non family member you knew decided not to have children. I would imagine that anyone making that decision knows whats best for him and that should be the end of it.

I had 4 by the time I was 25 (thats right Kunk, youve been pwned) and it basically consumes your entire life. Its not that it cramps your lifestyle, you dont get to have a lifestyle. Its just work and home and one becomes the refuge of the other. Now that its all done there is a sense of accomplishment but I think more profound is a sense that its done and any more living you have in front of you is gravy. Probably a similar feeling to that of Salmon after they have spawned. It is a primal satisfaction. I guess everyone is different but Im sure for me it will be a lot easier to die. Im sure I will be annoyed at having to go but for me there will be no despair. I did my part and now I can guiltlessly spend 5 hours a day prattling on to strangers over the interwebs.
post #124 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
You just need to go re-read things. You're missing fundamental points.

Im willing to admit that. My fundamental point is that even the biggest societal drain of a kid will inherit that society and his worthless, socially draining children after him. Economic contributions are temporary. The future isnt.
post #125 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
You can't say you know what it's like. That's like a priest saying he knows what it's like to be married. That being said I'm 20 and not sure if I want kids. I do know that although my parents have had a tough time raising me and my two younger brothers they are very proud of us now that we are coming around and making something of ourselves. I think life with just one person would get lonely. That's just me though.

Even if you are one of a million I don't think you will even begin to understand what it feels like to be responsible for another life. Whether that sucks or not is not for me to decide or pass judgement.

Suppressed (and erroneous) premise. Only a parent can be responsible for another life.
post #126 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilkinson View Post
Wouldn't, or couldn't?

shouldn't.
post #127 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
I find this fairly ridiculous, mainly because the analogy does not hold.

I agree that a celibate priest cannot know what it's like to be married -- the closeness of the bond, sex, etc. But why can one not know/understand what it feels like to be responsible for another life? A 90+ year old with Alzheimer's can be even more dependent than a toddler -- and of course that is only one manifestation of care from a non-parental role.



Now, if you were to say that a childless person cannot know what it feels like to have their own progeny, their own child by blood, I tend to agree. But you would be on very thin ice around adoptive parents to in some way imply that there might be some less bond.

~ Huntsman

I read your situation and I feel that is unique. Definitely an exception. I don't think watching my aunts kids for a day or two really lets me know what parenthood is like. There is a lot I would do for my own that I wouldn't do for others. I think having kids is more than just being responsible for another. In fact like I said I'm only 20, I know that there is something more there though. Maybe a sense of achievement that you have created something.

The priest analogy was meant to illustrate that a lot of priests give marriage counselling and approve marriages in the Catholic Church especially. How the fuck do they know anything? Maybe they have read really good books.
post #128 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Suppressed (and erroneous) premise. Only a parent can be responsible for another life.

I realise that statement was erroneous. In regards to your earlier argument...how do you decide who is financially stable enough to have kids? Lock their junk up until they have x amount of dollars?
post #129 of 175
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post #130 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey View Post
...

Quoted for truth.
post #131 of 175
first, let me say that I think its none of my business if somebody decides not to have kids, and fully respect that. several of my friends have decided not to have kids, and have pretty good lives


I think that if you don't have kids, you can't really know what it is like. watching a kid for a few days gives you a little feeling of the responsibility, but it doenst give 2 things - the feeling that the reposnsibility will never end and the good things about kids - the feeling of overwhelming love that you get from kids, unconditional love.
post #132 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
I realise that statement was erroneous. In regards to your earlier argument...how do you decide who is financially stable enough to have kids? Lock their junk up until they have x amount of dollars?

If you are on a government welfare program, whatever that program is, and you have your current kids enrolled in government welfare programs, I think any reasonable person would say you cannot afford more. Do you disagree?
post #133 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
If you are on a government welfare program, whatever that program is, and you have your current kids enrolled in government welfare programs, I think any reasonable person would say you cannot afford more. Do you disagree?

I think you are arguing the wrong point here. Wasn't that the reason they were created in the first place? To help single mothers? Am I correct in saying that you just hate the idea of welfare? Many of these people in these programs didn't plan to have kids either. Please offer your suggestions as to the solution of this problem. I suggest giving vasectomies to all poor people.
post #134 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
I think you are arguing the wrong point here. Wasn't that the reason they were created in the first place? To help single mothers? Am I correct in saying that you just hate the idea of welfare? Many of these people in these programs didn't plan to have kids either. Please offer your suggestions as to the solution of this problem. I suggest giving vasectomies to all poor people.
force abortions work as well. But honestly why put in just a economic basis for permitting people to have kids, how about educational, or sanity. i would suggest goverments start giving permits to have children.
post #135 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
first, let me say that I think its none of my business if somebody decides not to have kids, and fully respect that. several of my friends have decided not to have kids, and have pretty good lives


I think that if you don't have kids, you can't really know what it is like. watching a kid for a few days gives you a little feeling of the responsibility, but it doenst give 2 things - the feeling that the reposnsibility will never end and the good things about kids - the feeling of overwhelming love that you get from kids, unconditional love.

QFT. The only reason that I would ever encourage my childless friends to have children is because my boy has made me so inexplicably happy in ways that nothing else ever has or could that I would like for everyone whom I care about to experience it. Your own flesh and blood grabbing your finger, giving you a peck, sleeping on your chest, learning new words, tickling you and being tickled, etc. You created life, consciousness, subjectivity! That's as close to godlike as you can get.

I will say that I'm not sure how rewarding it would be if my kid was ugly, though, so I guess if you are ugly, you shouldn't take the risk.
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