Denim 101 for Men's Clothing - Page 85

Fantastic. Thank you.

Well, you may have missed out on the greys at Barney's, but I just got a pair of these, and must say they are extremely nice for the price (which is an error online but one which is honored upon checkout):

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod136110022&parentId=cat39570735&masterId=cat000488&index=3&cmCat=cat000000cat000470cat000478cat000488cat39570735

If you really have to have an odd size, Saks has them too, but at $185. I did find they ran a size smaller than the dry R&B I bought at Barney's in the exact same cut. I like these because the resin gives them a bit of sheen and there's no contrast stitching.

I wonder how the brown resin will break in down the road.

I personally prefer contrast stitching except in the case of black jeans. That's when I prefer overdyes.

I typically like contrast (they look more like "jeans"), but for the "I'm really not supposed to wear jeans but can sort of get away with it" scenarios, I like having a couple pairs that have tonal stitching since it makes my rule-snubbing a little less obvious.

Reading this thread got me itching for a pair of really good denim.

I can't seem to find locally the brands touted here, so I'm looking for recommendations that I can get online.

I'm looking for a pair of mid-rise, straight-cut jeans that are plain yet dressy. By "dressy," I mean like Parker's.

I have slim thighs but fat calves. Slim fit jeans are usually too tight for me in the calves, but classic fit jeans are too roomy in the thighs.

Don't like stacking. I wouldn't mind a cleaner look than Parker's, actually, but his look would be fine. Also don't want raw denim as I've no idea how to soak them properly. (If Soak 101 is covered after page 40 in this thread, I apologize. There was too much noise halfway through and I stopped reading.)

Here are the measurements for a pair of no-name, $15 jeans that fit me OK.

Waist: 30.5"
Front rise: 11" <-- I wear my jeans just a tad below my waist, which I now know isn't "hip".
Back rise: 15"
Thigh: 11"
Knee: 8.5"
Inseam: 30" <-- The cuffs just cover my shoes when I wear my jeans close to my waist

Any help would be appreciated.

Helping myself along...

Given my measurements above, do people here think these will fit me well? Maybe I should just e-mail those stores.

Rag & Bone RB15 Nero size 30 - Think these might be too tight for my calves.
Sugar Cane Hawaii size 32 - Not sure about back pocket design, but I can live with it.
Sugar Cane 1947 size 31 - I think I'm going for Sugar Cane.
Iron Heart Beatle Buster size 31 - But Iron Heart looks good too.

Also not sure whether these jeans look dressy, but I like the look of them.
Edited by Asian Afro - 7/17/11 at 9:10pm

I wouldn't go with Sugar Cane if I were looking for a "dressy" pair of jeans. Personally, for that I prefer a flat denim and plain back pockets. It's hard to tell from photos but Sugar Cane tends to be very slubby. Again, this is just my personal preference as I see slubby jeans as very attention-getting and only wear my pairs casually. This is why, aside from fit and price, a brand like APC is typically dressed up on here.

I don't think that pair of Rag&Bone warrants its price at all. Iron Heart is a good call. If you take a look on selfedge.com you can check out other brands along with their measurements. Based on what you provided, though, you're looking at a regular fitting straight leg repro cut. LVC 1947 might be a good cut for you and there are many Japanese brands that use better denim with a similar cut.

The inseam is a non-factor as you'll have to hem your jeans regardless of brand.

Understand that there is a difference between "raw" and "shrink to fit." "Raw" merely refers to the non-distressed, non-washed (ie, dyed) description of the jeans. "Shrink to fit" is exactly what it sounds like. Most of the jeans talked about on here are raw and sanforized, a process by which the cotton has been manipulated so that any future shrinkage in washing is minimized; they are not shrink-to-fit (STF).

You might also come across the term "one wash" and it can be applied to both sanforized and STF jeans. For sanforized, it means that the small % of shrinkage has been dealt with; for STF, it means that the work has already been done for you. In both cases, the jeans are still raw.
Edited by whodini - 8/4/11 at 8:01pm

just want to put this out there... Whodini, you're a magician. Thanks for helping out all these old dudes with their jawnz and questions.

I'd vote for you.

Appreciated, MC. I'm hoping the favor will be returned down the line when I'm forced to turn my wardrobe into something far less casual.

You know, like getting dressed up for my 25th wedding anniversary.

And my handle might be a play on a name, but it wasn't chosen by coincidence.

Well, don't look to me for help when the time comes. I'm working on both my formal and casual wardrobe. But seriously, thank you for your detailed reply.

Now, if I go for Ironheart's Beatle Buster, should I get them hemmed by Selfedge right away? Since the inseam might shrink by half an inch, should I go for 30.5", half an inch longer than the length I want?

Then, when I receive the jeans, should I wear them for a while so they would stretch out a bit before washing?

Would machine wash and dry be a really bad idea?

Thank you again for your help.

There are two ways to deal with hemming, one involves a more guesswork and the other is much more definitive.

Guesswork: Measure jeans that you already have worn in and with which you're happy with the inseam. Understand that sanforized jeans will shrink .5"-1.5"~ (2-5%) after the first soak and that in wearing your jeans, the creases that form behind your knees eat up another .25"-.5" from the inseam. So you'd hem your jeans purposely a little bit longer with the idea that they'll eventually get to wear you'll want them to be.

Definitive: Soak your jeans and wear them in a couple of times so that the creases set and THEN take them to be hemmed.

While the definitive way seems like the best, it's sometimes not viable. If you're dealing with jeans that have a 36" inseam when you normally wear a 30" then that's a lot of cuffing you'll have to do while you're breaking them in (unless you kept to wearing them around your house). That's where guesswork and knowing your jeans would work better. Personally, I just wear in the jeans for a week and then have them hemmed. I don't worry about the future wash because I always pull the legs while they're wet to stretch them back out and get back most of that inseam.

It sounds complicated but after you've done it once you get the hang of it. It also doesn't hurt to read about the jeans or ask the store to see what kind of shrinkage they've seen as it can vary from brand to brand.


As far as washing/soaking them before you wear them, it's up to you. I know people that prefer to get that out of the way immediately so that there are no surprises down the road. I've never been that anal and just wear my jeans out of the package.

As far as machine washing/drying, I usually wash my jeans in a bin by hand with non-abrasive soap like Dr. Bronner's. Then tends to keep them both clean and darker. I've noticed that when I throw jeans into a washing machine it really sucks out a lot of indigo, far more than a gentle hand wash. It's not that I don't recommend a machine wash, it's just that you should be warned about what you might see. I've also seen odd streaks and patterns come out from a machine, not only with my jeans but with others as well. As for drying them, I wouldn't recommend a machine at all. Always air dry.

Whodini, you seem really knowledgeable about jeans and willing to help newbies so could I get some personalized advice from you too?

Like Asian Afro, I'm looking for slim dark jeans that will fade as little as possible. I've been wearing Levi 511 (their "skinny" jeans, but ends up just slim on me) and I'm happy in general with slimness of the legs, but the waist and seat have loosened up after a while and the front rise is a little lower than I would like. Here are the measurements:

Waist: 16" (These were originally, 15.5", size 31 jeans)
Front rise: 9.5"
Leg Opening: 7"

Here's a pic of when I first got the jeans:


Could you recommend a brand I should look at under $200? Would APC New Standards or LVC 1947 fit what I'm looking for?
I'm not even sure whether "raw" jeans are what I want, but I don't want to deal with not washing them for 6 months and I don't want personalized creases or marks.

We can fix the rise but the waist and seat are always going to loosen up with wear. The trick is to buy your jeans a little bit on the snug side so that when they finally settle, they'll fit how you want.
Just because you buy raw jeans doesn't mean that you've signed a contract on how to care for and treat them. Even when you buy pre-distressed jeans, the common thought is to wash as little as possible so as to preserve the indigo and wash with non-abrasive soap or stuff like Woolite Dark.

In your case, there's a bit of a problem. Jeans aren't trousers in that they weren't designed to be colorfast. However, raw jeans have come into fashionable popularity over the past several years. Many companies offer what they call "raw" or "dark washes" which shouldn't be confused with the jeans I recommend. Those $40 "dark wash" jeans you can pick up at Target tend to be fairly colorfast because a) people expect an article of clothing to remain the same color and b) because of the cheaper synthetic dyes used. That means that most of the kinds of brands I'd recommend won't fit your bill. APC fades fast, LVC about average.

That leaves you with a couple of options. You can embrace good denim but swallow the fact that you'll probably be buying jeans every 6-18 months depending on how often you wear them, how dark you prefer your jeans to appear, and which brands you purchase (some are known to hold their color more than others.) Or, you can embrace average denim, stick to finding your jeans through major retailers, and experiment until you find a fit that works for you.

Or, you could take a look at these: http://www.ironheart.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=79

They're a bit more than you're looking to pay, and the rise is about what you're wearing now, but these won't fade. Iron Heart is a brand that is notoriously stubborn when it comes to fading but Triple Works took it a step further.

So how do you wish to proceed?

Looks like I should try size 30 for my next pair of jeans then.

So if I understand you correctly, "good denim" uses dyes that fade quickly because the people that buy "good denim" want it that way, and "average denim" uses non-fading dyes because non-jean enthusiasts don't want fading. Does "raw" (in the true sense of the word) just = fades quickly?

If the above is true, then why are Iron Heart jeans anti-fading but also expensive? I don't understand what group of people they're appealing to.

Also, if both "average jeans" and these Iron Heart jeans are anti-fading, what exactly am I getting for the premium in price (I noticed that the pair you linked Asian Afro was $400) ? The only extra feature I'm familiar with is selvage, but I wouldn't even be cuffing my jeans.

What do you think of this pair of "Raw Selvedge" 511s from Levi?
Edited by Liquidus - 8/4/11 at 6:26pm

OK, gone for a pair of Beatle Buster size 31 at Self Edge and having them hemmed to an inch longer than what I normally wear. I plan to wear them for a while before washing. Hope things work out.

Thank you for your detailed advice, Whodini.