zjpj83, do you think they're 2-eyelet shoes? The Handgrade Stanley is a two-eyelet derby that closely resembles those shoes in that respect, but the facings on the shoe in question are much closer to those on the Aintree (a 3-eyelet derby), with the sharply-pointed treatment at the bottom-front. Also, the Stanley is listed as available in only Dark Brown Antique, whereas the Aintree is shown in Beige Antique--more like the picture. It's a little hard to tell, from the lousy pictures, how many eyelets these shoes have (2 is my best guess at this time), but it seems conceivable that they have 3. If so, I'd say that they're Aintrees. Of course, they could be an earlier C&J derby that is no longer in the catalog.