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Cool Shoes, Paraphernalia & Desiderata - Page 355  

post #5311 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
I'm seriously considering these, any idea of what construction is like ?

Retail is quoted at 450 / 675 so you'd have to guess blake-stitched. Nice looking shoe for $250 and in my opinion it doesn't have to be bulletproof if it is black and doesn't get much rotation.
post #5312 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
I'm seriously considering these, any idea of what construction is like ?


I think retail is more like $750 to $795 for that model (note seller quotes a Neiman Marcus retail, Neimans doesn't carry Santoni to my knowledge so the seller is just guessing.) I'm fairly sure they are Goodyear welted (machine welt, not hand welt.)
post #5313 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
I'm seriously considering these, any idea of what construction is like ?

these are beautiful...hurry, I'm getting out my tape measurer now...
post #5314 of 14986
I suppose this is the wrong spot to ask this question, but despite the fact that this retails for $800, is the quality of the shoe any better than a $300 AE that you might find on sale for $175 (ie. dryden/park avenue).
post #5315 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
I'm seriously considering these, any idea of what construction is like ?
Agree with Harris on this--very likely Goodyear welted. Could be Bologna construction, but probably not. I think it's unlikely that they're Blake-stitched, given the thickness of the sole, which appears to perhaps be a double sole. Interestingly, Santoni does claim that some of their Fatte a Mano shoes are hand-welted. One thing I don't like about these shoes is what appears to be a reverse pitch on the heels. BTW, the seller mentions Nordstrom--who do carry Santoni--not Neiman's, so could have some factual info about price.

Vinouspleasure, the quality of these shoes will be considerably higher than that of any A-Es. Far more handwork, better quality leather uppers and, likely, sole leather, and probably far better leather finishing. But, perhaps, in a way, more importantly, these are very elegant and stylish shoes made on a sleek and very appealing last. Unlike the more-clunky A-Es, these shoes have close-cut soles and close-in heels, unlike the 360 degree-welted A-Es that from the back and front particularly look like uppers mounted on barges. Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but if you were to put the two shoes side by side (A-E PA and this Santoni Fatte a Mano), you'd see a huge difference.
post #5316 of 14986
I'd def snag those up for $275, they are great looking and seemingly well constructed. I doubt you'll see this exact shoe in your size on ebay at this price soon so if you like them buy them.
post #5317 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
Agree with Harris on this--very likely Goodyear welted. Could be Bologna construction, but probably not.

--- What makes you think that?

I think it's unlikely that they're Blake-stitched, given the thickness of the sole, which appears to perhaps be a double sole.

--- I have FAMs on the same sole: not quite dbl sole but thick one and they are not only Blake-stitched they not even fully lined. I can look inside and see the stitching.

Vinouspleasure, the quality of these shoes will be considerably higher than that of any A-Es.

---Not true.

Far more handwork,

--- Not true again.

better quality leather uppers

--- Not true

But, perhaps, in a way, more importantly, these are very elegant and stylish shoes made on a sleek and very appealing last. Unlike the more-clunky A-Es, these shoes have close-cut soles and close-in heels, unlike the 360 degree-welted A-Es that from the back and front particularly look like uppers mounted on barges. Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but if you were to put the two shoes side by side (A-E PA and this Santoni Fatte a Mano), you'd see a huge difference.

---This is the only true statement in the whole post. Unless of course, you prefer AE's aesthetics then it is not true.


I love the advise given here sometimes. It is accurate to a complete opposite.
post #5318 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
I love the advise given here sometimes. It is accurate to a complete opposite.
Well, one must consider the source. A Harris and Roger have credibility. Others may not.
post #5319 of 14986
Quote:
is the quality of the shoe any better than a $300 AE that you might find on sale for $175 (ie. dryden/park avenue).

Yes, much much better. The method of construction is similar but the level of refinement and detail on the Santoni is in a totally different league. The Santoni will make the AE look quite crude in a side by side comparison.

Quote:
BTW, the seller mentions Nordstrom--who do carry Santoni--not Neiman's, so could have some factual info about price.

The seller must read this thread because earlier the auction quoted a lower price @ Neimans, not Nordstrom.


BTW, I have seen this Santoni model in person, so I am not talking generally.
post #5320 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
I love the advise given here sometimes. It is accurate to a complete opposite.
Let me address each of your points:

1. I believe the shoe to be Goodyear welted because I'm pretty sure it is the Bishop model, discussed on this forum earlier by Diorshoe (where he indicated that it is G-welted) and appearing in the following link:

http://www.haroldsintheheights.com/s...derbishop.html

2. Unlikely Blake-stitched: most blake-stitched shoes (of which I have many) have quite thin soles. Despite your comments, those just don't look Blake-stitched to me. But note that I said that I thought it unlikely that they were Blake-stitched and didn't state this as a fact.

3. As for the Santoni vs A-E comparisons:

(a) You state a flat "not true" to my assertion that "the quality of these shoes will be considerably higher than that of any A-Es." Well, I think that this statement is absolutely true, and I really don't know anyone who would disagree with this--except, apparently, you. Some would argue that A-Es represent better "value for money" than these Santonis, and they may well be right about that, but I can't imagine anyone actually asserting that the quality of A-Es is equivalent to that of Santoni Fatte a Manos. I should perhaps add that I have both A-E and Santoni shoes and have observed this difference first-hand.

(b) You also state flatly "not true" to my assertion that the FAMs would have far more handwork than would A-Es. I agree that terms like Fatte a Mano can be thrown around without much justification, but I still strongly believe that the shoemaking process underlying a pair of Santoni FAMs would include much more hands-on work and attention from the makers than would a pair of A-Es. As just one small example, it's hard to see how closed-channel soles could be made without a worker actually doing much of this. With the Goodyear-stitching of a pair of A-Es, the welt-outsole stitching (done aloft) is just one simple operation that could be done completely by machine. Another place where you'd see a difference in the amount of worker hand involvement would be in the leather finishing. With A-E, the finish is, I'm sure, pretty much entirely done by machines, whereas on the Santoni FAMs, it's clear that a lot of hand work is done. To see this, take a look at the antiqued brown version of the Bishop in the link above. That kind of finish does require considerable worker attention.

(c) You again state flatly "not true" to my point about better-quality leather in the uppers of the Santonis. Do you know this to be untrue? Again, I think that there's little doubt about this. It strikes me as very unlikely that A-E can use leather costing as much as what goes into Santoni FAMs and still manage to see them sold at discount for $129. Assuming that some profit is being made by A-E even at these levels, what must the cost of the leather have been, given the higher costs of US labor? Further support for this comes from a recent post on either SF or AAAC about how A-E is now going to pressed particulate leather for certain sole structures.

BTW, Dah328, thank you for your comment. I don't know about myself, but A Harris certainly has huge credibility in these things, and I think that he'd agree with much of what I've noted above.
post #5321 of 14986
http://www.haroldsintheheights.com/s...derbishop.html

Note that this model is no longer available. If it were current price would probably be more like $850, which is what other shoes from this part of the Santoni line are going for (machine welted shoes with special design, and FAM designation.)
post #5322 of 14986
Yes, it's the Santoni Bishop model and diorshoe was selling some in brown. They are definitely welted and the price is a steal. I can't believe no one has bought them yet.
post #5323 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
I love the advise given here sometimes. It is accurate to a complete opposite.

I'm a huge AE fan, but even I can admit you totally blew it here. Roger and Harris are pretty much on the ball here.
post #5324 of 14986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
I love the advise given here sometimes. It is accurate to a complete opposite.

Ok, there must be some rational behind his opinion.

dkzzzz, can you elaborate further?
post #5325 of 14986
Half-lined, Blake stitched FAMs are neither superior in quality nor have more hand work as the poster implied.
FAMs are all significantly differ in construction.
Stating that just because they are FAMs they are just better quality and have more handwork is simply not true.
I think I illustrated it previously by offering exactly the same example. Let me repeat this: Half-lined and Blake-stitched FAMs
The shoes in question are black. Quality of leather on FAMs are different as well, and not always better than on AEs , especially in a case of black shoes that I own, as well as any black shoes really.
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