Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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When Robert Elms mentions his Brothers mates calling around his house, he just about describes every bit of skinhead clothing in a sentence, which is fair enough.
For some reason a lot of people do not like Robert Elms, but one thing for sure he is Working class, originally out of the slums of Notting Hill, thats good enough for me.

For one thing people didn't like the comparison with chavs, as for the present day skinhead scene that is. Have to say I can see where he's coming from in more than one sense, though...

As for that claim that he would be able to remember just about every detail of what his brother's mates were wearing it's just a case of filling in the blanks with hindsight I reckon

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

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For one thing people didn't like the comparison with chavs, as for the present day skinhead scene that is. Have to say I can see where he's coming from in more than one sense, though...

As for that claim that he would be able to remember just about every detail of what his brother's mates were wearing it's just a case of filling in the blanks with hindsight I reckon

But even so that passage is so good it had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up! I think that whole thing about just how immaculate skins could be was what drove me. It was so well executed in some cases it was a thing of real beauty.

To answer Jason's point I think the term first became well known in 1969 (as many have said) - at first generating a feeling of belonging but quickly turning sour as 'our own style' was now public property.

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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But even so that passage is so good it had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up! I think that whole thing about just how immaculate skins could be was what drove me. It was so well executed in some cases it was a thing of real beauty.

To answer Jason's point I think the term first became well known in 1969 (as many have said) - at first generating a feeling of belonging but quickly turning sour as 'our own style' was now public property.

John, I'll second both of these comments.

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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But even so that passage is so good it had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up! I think that whole thing about just how immaculate skins could be was what drove me. It was so well executed in some cases it was a thing of real beauty.

To answer Jason's point I think the term first became well known in 1969 (as many have said) - at first generating a feeling of belonging but quickly turning sour as 'our own style' was now public property.

I know this has been touched on various times and it makes total sense.
But for the older lads, pretty much at the head (in your area) of what was to become' skinhead' fashion, as the media defined it and the kids all flocked to it, what then for the older lads who were there already?
More mainstream fashion? (as that seems like going from cool and a cut above, to not caring so much)
Similar style but more grown up and less uniformed?
Or is it more that the clothes obsessed youngster, dressing (and sometimes fighting) to impress his mates / birds / other gangs is a very short lived thing that you leave behind at a certain age and for the snappy dresser of '68, this just happened to coincide with the tail end of '69?
You couldn't have just stopped being stylish and fashion conscious in 1970.
Is this not "˜suedehead' for want of a better phrase, as to set yourself apart from the boots, braces and Harrington clad 14 year old masses?

Whilst I'm assuming much of the "Made for Skins" items that flooded the market were shunned to some extent, but there must have still been an edge, all be it more difficult to keep exclusive.
Same sort of principal for the Mods after the papers were pushing the "˜sea-side riots' of '64.

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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But even so that passage is so good it had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up! I think that whole thing about just how immaculate skins could be was what drove me. It was so well executed in some cases it was a thing of real beauty.

Of course we're talking a poetic licence of sorts here and the man's enthusiasm is for real and that's what counts of course John. Was his description as such ever recognised by the press back then I wonder (like the dress sense of the mods for instance)?

Originally Posted by buttons

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You couldn't have just stopped being stylish and fashion conscious in 1970.
Is this not "˜suedehead' for want of a better phrase, as to set yourself apart from the boots, braces and Harrington clad 14 year old masses?

I don't know of anyone who ever called himself/herself a 'suedehead' at the time. That was never a defined 'look' but a transition from skinhead look to something else more arty/hippy/individualist. It happened while people were growing their hair out and gradually getting a different wardrobe bit by bit - hair doesn't get long overnight, wage packets for new gear have to come week by week. At least that's the way I saw it.

Okay don't laugh. By the end of 1971 I had long hair and a beard. Here's a picture of me playing mouth organ with Skinners Rats, a disreputable folk band (still going, by the way), in the Walpole pub, New Cross.

Still built like a racing snake, but a hairy one.

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

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Was his description as such ever recognised by the press back then I wonder (like the dress sense of the mods for instance)?

As far as I recall, all the press ever talked about was the 'uniform' of boots, braces, and 'military' cropped hair. Ironically the best description by an outsider was Chris Welch's mean-spirited, elitist, piece of class-prejudice about 'mods' in 1969 in Melody Maker. That one actually mentioned suits!

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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I don't know of anyone who ever called himself/herself a 'suedehead' at the time. That was never a defined 'look' but a transition from skinhead look to something else more arty/hippy/individualist. It happened while people were growing their hair out and gradually getting a different wardrobe bit by bit - hair doesn't get long overnight, wage packets for new gear have to come week by week. At least that's the way I saw it.

I can remember Bomber once stated that 'Smoothie' would be the term people actually used (and definitely not suedehead indeed) which was substantiated by Colin via this quote:

Originally Posted by browniecj

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Penny Collars started coming in (mid 70). If I remember rightly John Wesley Hardy were the first followed by Shermans. 71/72, I would have considered myself a "Smoovie"- to get away from the stereo-type Skinhead. A Newspaper Article appeared in one of the Nationals, highlighting this Fashion (started in the East-End). This again brought Media Focus.
I had a No.2 with a Razor Parting (68/69).Then I started growing it.

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

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I can remember Bomber once stated that 'Smoothie' would be the term people actually used (and definitely not suedehead indeed) which was substantiated by Colin via this quote:
I remember,in the Article,that the Guy speaking said this was a name that his Mates,called their Dress Sense(as opposed to Media Name-dropping).I cannot remember the Guys name-but I can say He came out of Stepney.It was Penny Collar Shirts,Mohair Trousers(with 1/2 Turn-ups)and Royal Smooths.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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I don't know of anyone who ever called himself/herself a 'suedehead' at the time. That was never a defined 'look' but a transition from skinhead look to something else more arty/hippy/individualist. It happened while people were growing their hair out and gradually getting a different wardrobe bit by bit - hair doesn't get long overnight, wage packets for new gear have to come week by week. At least that's the way I saw it.

Okay don't laugh. By the end of 1971 I had long hair and a beard. Here's a picture of me playing mouth organ with Skinners Rats, a disreputable folk band (still going, by the way), in the Walpole pub, New Cross.

Still built like a racing snake, but a hairy one.
You hadsome Devil you!

That should read Handsome,M-o-M!

'hadsome' works. I'll take 'hadsome'

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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'hadsome' works. I'll take 'hadsome'

Was that before, after or during your 'O'Hara' phase?!

Originally Posted by Little Queenie

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Was that before, after or during your 'O'Hara' phase?!

I trimmed it a bit for O'Hara.

I think that the clothes we label as modernist or skinhead, are still the beez kneez today. It looks smart and its a timeless classic look. When I wear these clothes today, few people know what I am, but I seem to be way better dressed, than anyone else, even though I'm no longer in the "young" category in life.

Lets put it this way, they just don't make, amongst mainstream clothing companies, this level of quality anymore.

The clothes today, like most of 'modern' society, have built in obsolescence and are designed, only to last, less than a year before falling apart.

With the button down "Look", you can't really go wrong. That's what I find. I suppose, I'll get to 80, still be wearing these clothes and the grand children, will ask what it was like and I'll be able to tell them about mods n' skins...

But also, I love how its embedded, deep in the working class. And by that, I mean the marxist version of the term (ie, wage slaves), not the term middle class (which these days, seems to mean the richer part of the working class, rather than the small businessman in media speak).

As it was put in the Sharper Word, "Clean living in difficult circumstances" (I see Mod and Skin as a continuum of the same movement, just variations on the same theme, although skinhead may have been a bit more communal and less individualistic by all accounts).

I didn't and still don't want to be part of mainstream society. I want to live in a world, free from the never ending cycle of being just a number in a cog. That's what subculture, in my mind is about. Its about saying "fcuk that". If you've got your own spaces, your own clothes, your own music, your own rituals, your own games and sports, your own people, your own tribe, who then, needs to be an automaton in mainstream society?

A lot of people, say to me, you failed in what skinhead, or any subculture tried to achieve. By "being different" you're all the same as each other. To which I respond, no, we're not the same, we're each different in personality as the next cat. But, we have chosen to be a world apart, from the mainstream, together, to share a common experience of creating our own world, our own society within a society. To not be an automaton and together, we can be like the Viet Cong, the cultural revolutionaries, giving the two fingers up to the bosses...being part of society, whilst at the same time, being apart from society.