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Mod to Suedehead - Page 477

post #7141 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brideshead View Post

In reply to an earlier question about what the originals wear today I suppose today is fairly typical for me on a work day:
Suit - Grey Italian POW (Luigi Botto) SB 3B centre vent
Shirt – Polo RL long sleeve light chambray BD open neck
Shoes – Florsheim Imperial Longwings in burgundy
Sox – Budd dark burgundy wool OTC
Belt – Jasper Conran dark brown
Pocket hank from Willigees, Colchester navy silk with burgundy spots
Fragrance – Penhaligon’s Endymion edt
Off duty at this time of year it would normally be:
G9 or similar
Jeans, Levis or Wrangler dark
A BD or polo shirt and v neck or cardi
Loafers or desert boots
This sort of thing...
264
320

Very smart John.

I have the very same RL Cardigan.
post #7142 of 19331
Thanks for the nice words. I am struggling with the chins too!

Jason, that Combat harrington must be the best value item I have ever bought - thanks mate!
post #7143 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Vaughan View Post

Around 18 months ago, a decent fella - on another MB - asked if anyone had recollections etc, of original skinhead times, for his nephew, who was doing a school/college course in Scandinavia.
These are just memories, opinions and thoughts, it was 40-plus years ago and I may have got some things wrong... but take them for what they are - 'my' memories as I remember them.
Thanks. (I go on, a bit, stick it out, if you like... no pressure, I won't be asking anyone to sit a test.) satisfied.gif
In 1969, and at nearly 15, I took myself off to the barber and had my hair cropped - my step-dad, a national newspaper professional and ex-forces, was impressed... and said I looked ‘clean and tidy’... if he had only known.


I then, from savings, bought some Australian army boots (£3.00), a pair of Levis (£2.75), a ‘three--button, ‘grandad vest’ (£1.00), a pair of clip-on braces (75p), and joined the then small, but growing ranks of Manchester United skinheads. (I’ve converted the cash to decimal as the UK was still on pounds, shillings and pence.)


Despite playing rugby (union) for the school - and latterly at club level - football was my passion, consequently I also enjoyed a good scrap - with anyone. And, living in England, with a Scottish accent, meant I had more than my fair share of punch-ups, something that was to serve me well during my teens.


My parents were fairly liberal, in that, I was allowed to go to see United at every home game - always a Saturday or Wednesday (none of this made-for-telly, Sunday fixture nonsense) - and on hitting 15, some ‘away’ games... dependent on who I was going with.

The ‘home’ games were fine, I’d go, with pals my own age, into the Stretford End, for the sing-songs, the cameraderie and the banter... and where there was the occasional ‘ruck’, it tended to be between United fans from different locales... Salford v Wythenshawe was quite a significant and regular event, both areas home to huge, working-class communities.

I can’t remember (in those days) any proper ‘scraps’ involving ‘away’ fans at OT - but that’s not to say they never occurred... but back then, being younger, I was an outsider, and not privy to proper ‘football hooliganism’ as it was later to be called.


It just happened that the family across the road comprised six sons, one a year older than me and he was - unlike his siblings - United-mad. And ‘mad’ he was.

Like me, John Thorp was a grammar-school boy - though he was RC - and he (unlike me), was bright, intelligent and, as I was to later find out, a fairly violent lad. And it was he who took me on my first trip to Arsenal, in 1969, against the ‘Gunners’ at Highbury... and to ‘take’ the North Bank.

While there were railway ‘football specials’ - even in those days - because of the (lack of) cash situation, we set off by coach to London’s Victoria Bus Station, with around a dozen MUFC fans, some of whom, J knew. It was an eye-opener, and no mistake.


My mother had prepared a tartan duffle bag(!) with sandwiches, coke, crisps, biscuits etc and, when we left my house, JT lobbed the bag - and contents - into a dustbin outside a shop, and punched me, for good measure, saying something along the lines of: ‘D’you think we’re going on a pumpin’ picnic?’

At the bus station, J met his pals, who proceeded to smoke (I never knew he smoked), swear quite a lot and check out who was wearing what. There was, however, no cans of beer or any drug-taking - not that I was aware of, anyway.



Back then, in early skinhead times, what you wore provided others with info on where you stood in the pecking order of the ‘crew’ you were with. No point being ‘hard as nails’ if you wore a pair of supermarket jeans, or your razored-in parting was too wide... you had to look the part. No excuses. (As a result, I genuinely think shoplifting came into its own around that time, as blokes tried to keep up with the trend.)

The coach stopped several times on the way south, and at each stop, we’d pile out of the bus, which comprised largely, from what I remember, of people with cases moving to ‘the Smoke’ for work, and most alone. (Funny how I still remember that, I think I thought it looked a bit sad.)


Off the bus (at service stations), we’d stand around, look ‘hard’, and those who did, would have a cigarette and they’d (not me, I knew no-one other than John and ‘knew my place’) punch and kick each other - in the way that young men, in a group, do. I imagine we looked quite intimidating to ‘ordinary people’ - in a way gangs of kids do to some of my generation, today.

That said, early skinheads - and the violent image that was bestowed on them - to the best of my knowledge never(?) picked on anyone because of skin colour or ethnicity... the wrong football scarf could get you a kicking, but not the wrong skin-tone, and many early skins were from afro-caribbean backgrounds.

Anyway, on into London and, on the way in, off the M1 motorway, through posh Hendon and into (County) Kilburn - so known because of the huge number of young Irish lads, grafters, who had settled there, in large, multi-dwelling properties. Many were young, unmarried men, who, with no transferable skills - other than their bare hands and the ability to graft for hours - travelled the country building the nation’s road network.


Then finally, Hyde Park Corner, which to me, ‘was’ London. Even in those long-ago days, it was incredibly busy and confusing, with all manner of vehicles jostling to go somewhere else, and I wondered how anyone who, once on it, ever got off again. (Obviously they did, or the place would now look like an early, mechanical graveyard, littered with the rotting shells of Ford Anglias, Cortinas and Zephyrs - with the odd Austin thrown-in for good measure.)


On arrival at Victoria Bus Station, we all stood at the driver’s elbow waiting to alight, while the ‘sad people’ just held back. Again, perhaps it was because we looked intimidating - or maybe they weren’t sure they had done the right thing, leaving lives they knew well, to embark on some new adventure...?


While not exactly hitting the ground running (literally), we were informed (I still, to this day, do not know how whoever told us this would have known about it, with no internet/mobiles etc?), we were just ‘down the road’ from a hippy (our enemies?) commune* that had made the news for some weeks, having squatted in one of London’s most prestigious addresses - and we should ‘go and see what’s happening’.


It was chaotic. Plod all over the place and there were more camera crews and press boys than at a medium-sized war. But it was exciting. I felt I wanted to live in a city that had crap like this happening - and for everyone to see.

 There really was nothing for us - no ‘aggro’ - there, so we moved on. With the ‘hippies’ safely ensconced in their luxury pied-a-terre, they were going nowhere and, despite many like-minded souls trying to join them, the forces of ‘Laura Norder’ did (eventually) evict them - which was sad, but inevitable - and Piccadilly was returned to the drug-addicts/pushers pimps, ‘ladies of the night’ and tourists. They are/were welcome to it.

But for us, it was all about getting closer to Highbury and linking-up with fellow United fans.
Even in those days, the ‘Red Devils’ had a substantial number of London-based supporters, aka ‘Cockney-Reds, who would travel 400 miles for a ‘home’ game’. In reality, much of United’s ‘out-of-town’ support was largely due to the tragedy that hit MUFC in 1958, when a number of the club’s players and back-room staff were badly injured, or even killed in the ‘Munich Air Tragedy’ as it came to be known.

The UK loves an underdog, and, with players - and the legendary Scottish manager of the the club (Sir) Matt Busby - still in hospital, the makeshift team made it to Wembley three months’ later for the 1958 FA Cup Final... only to lose 2 - 0 to a good, homegrown Bolton side. 

From then on, Manchester United belonged to everyone - something that still rankles with some people today, some 50-plus years on.


Anyway, we swaggered our way across North London to Highbury, where thousands of fans of both sides were already gathered for what was, as usual, a virtual sell-out match. Many years on, I can still picture a number of Arsenal skins, who all appeared to be incredibly tall, gaunt and... old. To me, at least, though I would doubt there were too many aged over 18.

I hadn’t really started shaving but some of these lads had a ‘full set’ of sideburns, accentuated by their lack of head hair - funny how things stick in your mind.


I know we met other United fans outside pubs - I was never going to get in and be served, and in honesty, neither were some I was with. That said, I was given (at least) two pints, and felt incredibly grown-up and part of the crew. (It tasted horrible, mind.)

And so, beer drunk, burger eaten, and insults traded with the opposition, we made our way into the ground. There was no (real) segregation of the supporters at that time (in later years, police would mount almost military-style operations to keep fans apart) and we easily made our way into the heartland of Arsenal’s singing/scrapping section, known as the ‘North Bank’, which had a fairly tough reputation, even in pre-skinhead times.



The first thing that struck me - literally - was an old, copper penny, one of hundreds, if not thousands, that arsenal fans were throwing at the new arrivals, who, in turn, were chucking them back. Incredibly, almost from nowhere, there opened a ‘no man’s land’ between us and them, and it’s still something that amazes me as we were all virtually dressed alike, even down to the red and white scarves many of us, in those bygone days, still wore to identify with the club.


Of course, the police weren’t going to allow a full-blown mellee to ensue and waded in, hitting everyone, not in their ‘gang’ - and these were big fellas, back in the day when the police service had a minimum height requirement for those who wanted to join.

They were up against everyone inthe North Bank, and were forced to retreat back onto the pitch as coins (later to be sharpened), stones, sticks and bottles (though not on the scale that had been regular occurrence at some Scottish football grounds) and anything else to hand, were exchanged in a pitched battle that didn’t stop even when the game kicked off.


Occasionally, people were carried out by friends and fellow supporters - some to outside the stadium, others onto the pitch with bleeding head wounds - but by then, the authorities had lost all control. I was scared, but incredibly excited at being part of something so beyond anything I had ever seen... and I liked it.

Then of course were the songs and chants, that every team had employed to bait the opposition for many years previously - some unique, many stolen and/or adapted from others.
On this occasion, one was along the lines of: ‘We took the North bank, we took the North Bank, we took the North Bank, Highbureeeeee...’ - hardly award-winning but good enough to get the Gunners’ fans going. And that’s what mattered.

For many skinhead fans, the away games were merely conduits to let off steam with a punch-up, visit new places and meet girls. And I loved it.

 Within a couple of years, some unfortunate fans had died in punch-ups, ( I had a friend decapitated by a train, leaning drunk out of a window), darts had been launched at others - I remember this happening at Liverpool's ground and saw a fella being led away with one stuck in his forehead - and the ‘fun’ had gone from it - for me, anyway.


I was also older and, if not wiser, had better things to do with hard-earned wages... and add to that, a steady girlfriend. I still had friends who, adopting new fashions, went to games and, hand-on-heart, I still know men of 50-plus who get into scuffles at football matches - it gets some people that way.

Not something I’d recommend now, too many knives; too many people prepared to have one person set upon by six others, stamping on victims’ heads, etc... It’s not the sport’s fault, I blame Society.
Hope this helps

 - 

Ed

(FTR: I was never a proper 'baddie' - I was/am too aware that any kickings dealt out could well (ultimately) have come back my way.) 


Great authentic recollections Ed - and as a young skinhead who also participated in the noble art of terrace hooliganism I can vouch that this sort of event was common all over the country and not just confined to the big clubs in the (old) First Division, the numbers may have been smaller in the lower divisions but 50 against 50 at Mansfield was no different from 1,000 against 1,000 at Highbury - and yes, those sort of numbers are correct. Just for the record the scariest group of football skinheads I ever saw were Birmingham City, who did seem to have a distinctive look about them, seem to remember nearly all of them were wearing baggy Navy Whites. Preston North End were another mob who were very distinctive in their look - almost regimented and uniform, again with the Navy whites, although I can recall in our suedehead period when just about everyone in Bristol wore black Brutus shirts - some with football badges sewn on to the breast pocket - as well as on to your Crombie, and I definitely remember going to Leeds in the same period and Leeds fans questioning this fashion as to a man they were wearing sheepskins - mind you this querying was just before they gave us a larruping.

I do recall going to Stamford Bridge in 1970 to see Chelsea play Arsenal with my Arsenal supporting cousin and uncle, thank God I watched from the safety of the stand (the Shed was to my right, the Matchstick Stand to my left so not sure what stand this was) as the two warring tribes kept up the fighting for virtually the whole of the game, it was like something out of a war film - I was most impressed!

I also recall the 'gap' opening up on the terraces between the two sets of fans as mentioned by Ed, this 'no-man's land' would often be filled with the detritus of battle, shoes (as not everyone wore boots), scarves, bobble hats, miner's helmets, sticks, bottles and the odd cosh and knife - there was also a fair amount of loose change to be hand for us young 'uns - the older ones wouldn't demean themselves in picking up a few bob but I never had a problem with it!

I always remember my mum used to give me ten bob (50p) when on went on away games to get some fish and chips, it goes without saying that it was usually spent on ale - think my first pint would have been in the region of 1/6d in 1970/71ish but I might be wrong on that - we used to drink Light Splits (Light and Bitter) and it had to be Courage Ale.

Funny thing about the Saints tattoo, that was also common in Bristol - but on greasers! There was even a group of bikers from the tough district of Southmead who were known as the Southmead Saints. Can't recall many lads with earrings - only greasers and gypos at the fairs. And that's another scary place - fairs, always trouble as our local fair was situated on the border of my district, Henbury and the aforementioned Southmead - funny when I hear 'Liquidator' these days it doesn't remind me of Chelsea but of the Waltzer!

Happy days
post #7144 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brideshead View Post

Thanks for the nice words. I am struggling with the chins too!
Jason, that Combat harrington must be the best value item I have ever bought - thanks mate!

I was just about to ask about that Harrington - it looked like a Baracuta except for the lining - just checked the prices, bloody hell bargain or what, paid £140 for my G9 a few years back. Can anyone recommend decent Sta-prest, I've looked at the Warrior ones and think they look a bit cheap?
post #7145 of 19331
That match Chelsea V Arsenal 1970 that you was at Chris, I was also there and wrote about it on here some pages ago. I mentioned the Arsenal Supporter coming at me with a Axe.
That stand you was on about was the old North East Stand, The terrace under the stand would hold about Three Thousand and Two Thousand was Arsenal Skinheads, biggrin.gif
Chelsea Won that day cant remember the score ...but John Hollins got a goal...it hit the cross bar as it came back he put it in on the volley,

Yes happy days.
post #7146 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure_Drop View Post

I was just about to ask about that Harrington - it looked like a Baracuta except for the lining - just checked the prices, bloody hell bargain or what, paid £140 for my G9 a few years back. Can anyone recommend decent Sta-prest, I've looked at the Warrior ones and think they look a bit cheap?

Try Brooks Brothers,
post #7147 of 19331
Cockney Man Utd supporters was hated in London..and when ever they was caught they would get a heavy kicking,
I came out of the Tottenham Royal one Tuesday night with a mate we got on the then new Seven Sisters Stn, My mate and Me was sitting there and a load of Man U got on, Did not realise at the time they was playing Spurs. As it happened they was Londoners, about Twenty of em ..we was suited up and wearing crombies, they came over.. I said lads we ant football supporters ..don't support anyone....this cnut had a broken bottle in his hand and was waiving it about near my face, i remember holding my crombie collar as to protect my face, the train pulled off, The next station was Finsbury Park which is a long old drag. They mentioned they came from Chessington, never forgot that Forty odd years later,. Some of them started to smash the train up, I was shitting myself for the 4 or 5 minutes until we got into the station...which was wall to wall with Old Bill and Dogs, to me they was like the fcuking Cavalry, the Coppers tried to drag me and me mate off the train also, but i managed to persuade them to let us go as we was dressed to smart as to have been at the match.

Even to this day when ever i come across Londoners who support Man U i give them a load of abuse..cnuts,biggrin.gif
post #7148 of 19331

ACES  i loved the mention of jack ringo the tattooist, around 6 of us rode over there on our scooters would have been late 71 . we got there  on a sat morning  a bit early as he was shut so we parked up with all the headsets and fly screens facing the same way. and went to find a boozer , this by the way was his second shop which was an old ex cafe, not down by the ferry we was down the pub a bit longer and when we got back he was full up with greasers, proper ones , so in we go and like you say no agg in the shop, i can remember the stares as we were well out numbered . But we sat it out and got our tatts done , BUT when we left THEY  ambushed us and did it go off  it was a proper wild west turnout, i remember what started was the kicking over over a well nice vespa  well i think thats what it was but its 40 plus years ago im sure ringo was going mental as it was right outside his shop. Was you from over that manor ringo is still tattooing but in sweden.  Brownie lasttye ed  if you or any of the guys fancy a night out at me boxing shows at the tavern  or if i do have that bout in oct, your welcome my treat. i started training today so i will see how it goes,

post #7149 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasttye View Post

Try Brooks Brothers,

yes, the Brooks "milano fit chinos" are very much staprest and not chinos in the traditional sense as they have a perma crease but the cloth is 100% cotton (no poly). If the Milano fit is too slim (it's not skinny, but a good slim fitting shape) they do have several wider fits of the same trouser. I dont know about UK, but in USA, Brooks has sales quite often, so if not in a hurry you could get for cheaper during such sale.

I do have a question......what was the dominant color palette back in original days? meaning, the current wave of traditional styled skinheads are all very much into bright colors (loud check shirts, colorful staprest like burgundy or sky blue, even sky blue harringtons etc). Were bright colors popular back then as well? or more muted solid colors/stripes without huge contrasts....?

BTW, am really enjoying reading the anecdotes from back in day. really great stuff and hopefully Paul is jotting these down for his tome!
post #7150 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by circustavern777 View Post

ACES  i loved the mention of jack ringo the tattooist, around 6 of us rode over there on our scooters would have been late 71 . we got there  on a sat morning  a bit early as he was shut so we parked up with all the headsets and fly screens facing the same way. and went to find a boozer , this by the way was his second shop which was an old ex cafe, not down by the ferry we was down the pub a bit longer and when we got back he was full up with greasers, proper ones , so in we go and like you say no agg in the shop, i can remember the stares as we were well out numbered . But we sat it out and got our tatts done , BUT when we left THEY  ambushed us and did it go off  it was a proper wild west turnout, i remember what started was the kicking over over a well nice vespa  well i think thats what it was but its 40 plus years ago im sure ringo was going mental as it was right outside his shop. Was you from over that manor ringo is still tattooing but in sweden.  Brownie lasttye ed  if you or any of the guys fancy a night out at me boxing shows at the tavern  or if i do have that bout in oct, your welcome my treat. i started training today so i will see how it goes,

Haven`t been to the Tavern for years.Might take you up on that,A.Get Training for October.smile.gif
post #7151 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brideshead View Post

I have had a bit of a break from the internet over the long weekend. I see a lot has been happening. Welcome to all the new posters.
On places I went to, the Lacey Lady came a bit later with me (about 1972). In 1968 / 69 it was The Merry Fiddlers at Beacontree Heath or Coopers Arms near Romford on Friday nights and usually Ilford Palais on a Saturday.
I recall the Plough and Harrow in Leytonstone High Road as being a Friday night pub as well. We also went to the Mecca at Basildon on a regular basis.
The period from 1970 onwards now seems to be creeping into the discussion. I felt this was a subject that needed a separate thread and tried to start one some months back but it failed….
This piece by our ‘Dutch correspondent’ Alex Roest on FNB is pretty comprehensive, even definitive. (I would say that as I contributed!).
http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-french-cut

I wore Ravel’s platforms, and shopped in Take 6 in the early 70s as well as Village Gate and the Squire Shops.
Stanley Adams, Quincy and Woodhouse were real saviours a little later.
I must say some of you guys do seem to have taken some of the more extreme elements of the early 70s look on board. I tried not to do that – I found it a grim time.


The dagenham skins were a pretty tasty crew if i remember , i was invited over and we all met at martins corner, there youst to be twins in that firm  they was a big crew , the fiddlers pubs now a morrisons but the coopers arms is still there any one remember the BARONS club in ilford a members only drinker
 

 

post #7152 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post


yes, the Brooks "milano fit chinos" are very much staprest and not chinos in the traditional sense as they have a perma crease but the cloth is 100% cotton (no poly). If the Milano fit is too slim (it's not skinny, but a good slim fitting shape) they do have several wider fits of the same trouser. I dont know about UK, but in USA, Brooks has sales quite often, so if not in a hurry you could get for cheaper during such sale.
I do have a question......what was the dominant color palette back in original days? meaning, the current wave of traditional styled skinheads are all very much into bright colors (loud check shirts, colorful staprest like burgundy or sky blue, even sky blue harringtons etc). Were bright colors popular back then as well? or more muted solid colors/stripes without huge contrasts....?
BTW, am really enjoying reading the anecdotes from back in day. really great stuff and hopefully Paul is jotting these down for his tome!



ok mate  for me my sta prest were white , black which im wearing in that pic, and bottle green  i  think there was another brand called EVER PRESS but cant be certain perhaps the guys will know. i seem to remember a tonic with a pow check coming out but well into 1970 blue and green, and i remember like a dark red and blue/black tonic as well i did love a tonic mohair still do

 

post #7153 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces and Eights View Post

saint tattoo.JPG

 

This was our old 'Simon Templar Saint with boots' gang tattoo that I am very attached to - literally!!



thats a bit of skin history

 

post #7154 of 19331
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

I was taken to Carnaby Street when I was 14(`64).I bought my first pair of Hipsers from" Donis" then(with money I had saved from various Jobs I was doing).For the next 2 years,I graviated around there-buying Clothes ,going to the Marqueeand seeing various Groups(it was here in `67 I saw the Skatalites,which changed my direction of Mod).Then I had a No.4 got rid of the Coloured Shirts etc.,and eventually became a Skinhead.
The Boxng Bout,I would love to see A.I looked pretty Fit in that Cage Fight.


you were in at ground zero mate ,seen the lot  mate i read on another site that there were two types of mods the dandy wearing the regency style coats ect and the hard mod  do you aggree

post #7155 of 19331
My first Harrington was Lemon.I did not wear the Brutus Checked Shirts but I believe they came in a few Checks.Tonik Mohair came out in a variety of Shades,my favourite being Champagne.
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