Mod to Suedehead - Page 339

Roy, I just came across this bit in Nick Knights book and wondered if you had any input on what he wrote....in talking about the original days he was talking about how there wasn't much antagonism between skinheads and blacks and made this statement that never registered with me til now since you hung with the Kilburn mob....

"many blacks were skinheads or formed their own crews, such as the Kilburn Blacks and the Kilburn Whites."

Was there really a crew of all black Kilburn skins??

Sorry for the late reply - just caugt up.
Ben Sherman used a man made mix in most of their button downs (except a few pre-skinhead ones).
Throughout te whole of the 60s, everyone was striving towards the non-iron clothing solution with the new miracle fibres from the likes of ICI, like polyester, crimpalene, terylene etc. Hence the endless iron-free names like sta-press, permenant press, everpress, perma-press etc etc.
I've got a couple of pure cotton button downs that take an age to iron properly (especially with a 60s iron!) but you'll find most of the button downs from both sides of the Atlantic had a mix - to give the look and feel of cotton but the easy-living of polyester.

Buttons

Their was no crew of all Black Skinheads in Kilburn.. Black blokes was called Rudies. they had their own crew in Kilburn, and was loosely ..... from time to time part of the Kilburn mob. just sometimes their would be arguments.

Their was maybe about Forty Black Rudies in Kilburn, Most of us went to school with each other...in the early days 68/69 they would come into our Youth clubs and their was no trouble, Once the White skinheads started to drink in pubs their was often a fall out, We had a war with the Blacks it went on for nearly a year, people was getting hurt on both sides, because we lived in the same area a sort of truce was agreed and that was it.

The fall outs was always over Girls, back then Black girls was never seen out, so the Black lads would try and pull a White girl , thats where the problem started, Some White girls who liked Black blokes would often go to Black clubs looking for black lads..thats always happened, but we did not like it when they tried it in our clubs,

The worst thing about our little war... individuals had personal mates on both sides, Two of my best mates was Black one Lloyd Mentor RIP he was the lad who introduced me into the clobber, [ he worked in a surplus cloths shop on Saturdays] my other Black mate was Ollie who lived next door to me, Another lad who was Lloyds cousin was one of the smartest blokes i ever met and had such a influence on many of the smarter Kilburn Skinheads.

As i have said before you had blacks who hung around with skinheads , and whites who hung around with blacks..it was mostly because of school, individual friendships was formed that would last,

Once we started drinking alcohol and got in pubs, we sort of drifted apart [ blacks tended to hang around youth clubs and puff] also not many blacks went to football, our whole culture became different. and that was it... they had their world we had ours and thats how its been ever since.
Edited by Lasttye - 1/7/12 at 3:42pm

This is quite a big subject that a load o bollocks have been written about, I have never read the Nick Night book.
In 60s NW London, Kilburn, Willesden Harlesden, Notting Hill and Harrow road Paddington.. their was large West Indian populations, also Brixton over South London,
I started school at 4 and 1/2 in 1958 and their was Black kids even then at school, I grew up with these kids... Its when one became a teenager when things change between black and whites, { its still the same today}

Some Black lads dressed as Skinheads, like some Whites dressed as Rudies, But trouble was always under the surface, I am not sure if the fights was purely on racial grounds, I mean it would be if a Black tried to pull a White girl, I do know no one was happy when we was fighting each other, Back then Blacks never had the rights like they have now, various race relationship acts changed that, Blacks would often be turned away from Discos, so they would have their own clubs, One club was the Caxton Hall in Victoria, { it was a old Mod youth club} I would get in their with my mate,we would be the only white males in there, although all the girls in there would be White, i never had a problem while in there.

This whole subject is a complex one, But one thing for sure it was not the cosy relationship that later social history writers on 60s Skinheads want us to believe.
Edited by Lasttye - 1/7/12 at 3:53pm

On a different subject :-

(and I apologise if this has been mentioned previous)

 

I've just been reading the Keith Moon biogrophy, 'dear boy' by Tony Fletcher.

 

And was interested to read the chapter when Keith Moon opened a discotheque in Hatfield at the 'Cranbourne Rooms' (which ajoined the Red Lion pub off the Great North Road/A1000) What a night!

Do any of the originals on here, have any insight or knew of anybody who was at this event? It was late 1969 I think.

 

Keith moon arrived at this venue with his entourage, wife, friends and members of 'Thunderclap Newman', to find out it was dominated by Skinheads.

 

To quote the book :

 

'The entire entourage had long hair. As far as they were concerned, it was the fashion. They were wrong. The Cranbourne rooms were dominated by skinheads.

Every action, they say,causes a reaction, and the natural reaction to the new underground rock, with it's pronounced emphasis on musicianship that frequently resulted in extended guitar solos, and the increasingly bohemian accompanying fashion of flared trousers and flowing jackets, long hair and beards, was manifested in England in the late 60's emergence of the skinhead. Proudly working class, the skins emphasis was on looking sharp and hard, to which end he cropped his hair, wore Dr Martens boots, Ben Sherman or Fred Perry shirts, and turned-up jeans with braces. He couldn't give a shit about 'the underground' and he dispised the very outdoor festivals. For the skinhead the music of choice was west Indian-produced or influenced ska, as epitomised by Desmond deckker's razor sharp single 'The Isralities', which went to number one in the UK in 1969 right as 'Pinball wizard' was heralding the Who's infactuation with rock opera. In many ways, skinheads were the throwback to the mods of the early 60's, with their meticulous attention to style and their love of black dance music. But their ethos was underscored by an obsession with violence - be it street fighting, football hooliganism or, ultimately, paki-bashing through skinheads thrived on the music of the West Indians, they had a hatred for the new immigrants from the Indian subcontinent who had begun to arrive in Britain in their thousands.

Given that the skinheads had been highly visible over the recent months - in the pop charts, on the football terraces and in the newspapers (they had even attacked the fringes of the Rolling Stones free concert in Hyde Park the previous July, baiting the stoned long-hairs for whom they held nothing but contempt) - Keith should have been immediately wary of their pressence upon entering the Cranbourne Rooms. But he wasn't: he didn't know how to be deterred from having a good time.'

 

Make of them observations what you will. But suffice to say Keith Moon had a great night. And wasn't intimidated by the skinheads. I think the skinheads had a fair bit of respect for the Who, with their Mod roots, and notoriety.But it did turn  ugly outside. The skinheads in question were very young (to be fair), and who's to say what caused the fracas. Just wonderd if anyone had any insight on this famous night in 69?

Is that the Jump the Gun overcoat?  If so how is the quality?  Worth the price?  Also, very jealous of the maroon Fred Perry sweater in the other pictures.
 

 

Brilliant photo's Jason. Look a great bunch of lads.

Nice MR shirt you are wearing too :)

Regarding Keith Moon, maybe a different night but didn't he flee a mob of skinheads and end up accidentally running over his chauffeur in his Rolls? Supposedly the trauma sent him off the rails culminating in his OD.

I have a comic book somewhere from the 80s or 90s about Keith Moon where the incident is illustrated, except the skinheads are all drawn as gross 1980s caricatures with skin-tight bleachers and swazi face tattoos.

Welcome back Jason, Excellent photos. That's interesting to hear that in Tokyo the scene leans more towards Oi/Punk. I wonder why that is.

My guess is because Tokyo scene started with bands influenced by British oi. The first oi bands in early-mid 80s like Shuffle, Angry Ducks, Bad Vultures, Eastern Youth etc all played hard oi. Then came the popular "samurai skins spirit" bands like Sledgehammer, Ouka, bull the Buffalos etc who also had the hard sound and hard politics. West Japan always seemed more traditionally oriented anyways as their bands aren't as political as the Tokyo bands were and more rooted in melodic punk influenced oi. Bands like LRF, Blade, Sandiest etc even have a slight hard mod style, all from west Japan. Couple of the Nagoya guys I talked with saw those bands live 10 years ago, but never the Tokyo bands as it was their equivalent of a B&H gig. But as with most things it's not so black and white as that sounds.

As for overcoat, no that is one of my own. But I do have a Jump the Gun crombie and it's good. Heavy cloth, good for cold winters. Nice fit with all the usual details. I'd say it's worth the price.

I've been thinking.

Someone referred to me as 'The Face Of 1969' (cringe cringe!) because of the photos of me that seem to be circulating.

Okay, I had the look, but I will be the first to admit that my whole mind-set was Northern mod grafted on to London. I dropped right into the scene no problem and had a great bunch of mates, but I knew that something had changed for me. So...

'The VOICE of 1969' to my mind is Roy, known to us here as Lasttye, because he was one of the people who came absolutely fresh into being a skinhead and therefore has a very clear view of the 'then-and-there' context. Everything he says about the era has the ring of truth, even the bits where his North London scene and my South London scene seem to be different.

That's with all due respect to all the rest of us 'originals' on the forum, each of whom has a very authentic 'voice' of his own.

IMHO
M-o-M

Jason, just noticing the guy with what appears to be a West Ham scarf (centre). Do this crowd regard following an English soccer team as part of their skinhead thing?

That is the same night, yes.

Apparently the skinhead mob started throwing coins at the Bentley, and then bottles.Then it just escalated. Nobody really knows exactly what happened.

 

Would be a laff to see this comic book.

 

 

Well travelled Man Mr Suzuki , Jun a myself Margate about Three years ago. Both look the worse for drink,

"Me too i did all my own stitching and ironing, I got very good at it, when i joined the Army I already knew how to Iron, stitch and bull my boots, I also did all the stitching for my kids
My jeans would just be above me ankles."

 

Good to hear, i've gotten my girlfriend to teach me how to hem jeans as well as "take in" pant and shirt sleeves. very handy.

 

I remember seeing this site mentioned somewhere in the thread, im sure of it, but i can't seem to find mention of it - does anyone have any experience with these harringtons? they're stupidly cheap ($40 posted to australia... you can't buy a new harrington here for anything less than three times that). it's almost cheap enough to just buy without worrying but I may as well check -

 

http://www.lifestyleclothing.net/classic-harrington-jacketstop-quality-37-p.asp