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post #4546 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post


some really interesting stuff overnight!
that is a great record by Jackie Mittoo...and I always liked his pics wearing a suit as well. yes the jacket is a very short bumfreezer, but quite a few artists at that time wore them like that, Sam Cooke immediately comes to mind.
I'm glad the Jamaica thing was brought up, the one bit of nonsense I've heard over the years by American skinheads is the mantra "the first skinheads were Jamaican". One of my good mates when i was about 19 wore a Jamaican flag on his MA-1 along with Star n Stripes, and I thought that slightly strange. I also never quite understood jamaican flags being displayed at ska/reggae do's, as well as having booths of jamaican food??? I mean, i get where it's coming from, but think it's odd.


Jamaica had their gangsters or Rude Boys. Some young Jamaicans copied their look. Some of these emigrated to England. Some of these Immigrants went to clubs frequented by Mods. Some Mods went to clubs frequented by Jamaican immigrants. Some Mods and Jamaicans in said clubs borrowed clothing ideas/styles etc from each other. Some became friends, some became Skinheads. Younger brothers of the Mods and Jamaicans became Skinheads. They dressed alike as one would into good old fashioned working class youth movements. They never asked where we got our ideas and we never asked them. It just was. They never accused us of stealing their style and we never accused them. It just was. As said by myself and Roy before - social history? What's that? And anyway who cares, there's a fight going on round the block or we're going to be late for football/boxing/youth club/picking our Doris up/getting our hair cut........!
 

Skinhead: A short lived 1960's predominately white working class youth movement, started at grass roots level in London (Sorry, I can't remember the street or house number).


 

 

post #4547 of 18562
I think i was lucky born at the right time, I was 15 in 69, 13 to 17 is a exciting time for any Teenager, Its an intense period, Little things are massive, being part of a gang to me was such a big thing, it influenced me for the rest of my life, We would die for each other, That loyalty i still hold to this day,

I had a mate who moved from Kent to around the corner from me, I tried to get him into the Gang but he was not interested...he was a individual, Anyway he wanted to go to the Tottenham Royal one Tuesday night ..he had a couple of his mates up from Kent with him, Coming out of the Royal we went into a chip shop... coming out we was surrounded by a group of lads, they started.. my mate and his mates just ran off and left me, I took a smack in the mouth but i would not run, I stood my ground and they left me alone to walk away, I got down to Seven Sisters Underground saw the cnuts who left me and just layed into them, with my mouth.

Next week i was back with a load of Kilburn, and as it happens we bumped into the same gang in the chip shop, we just smashed em and the bloke who chined me got it back , the cnut was terrified.

The point iam making their was loads of so called Skinheads like my mate from Kent who did not live the life of a true Skinhead he was on the outside, individuals, mostly wankers who would run at the slightest wiff of trouble.

To this day i have no time for individuals or loners, Skinheads and later for me Paratroopers was all about being together...part of a gang. When you are on your own you are nothing.
Edited by Lasttye - 11/22/11 at 9:07am
post #4548 of 18562
Just to add to the above, if you was a skinhead and was not part of a gang it would restrict you, Like you would not be up in the latest bit of clothing, You would not be able to move around London freely,{ other Skinheads would have you over} , also Girls,..you had to be part of a gang to get access to Skinhead Girls who would not give you a second look if you was on your own,
The Girls loved the Aggro and they loved the Blokes who got stuck in, Skinheads was all about looking and acting the part, and when the shit hit the fan you was expected to get stuck in, if not you would be fcuked off out of the Gang with a good hiding to Boot,biggrin.gif
post #4549 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasttye View Post

Regarding the Rudies influence over Skinheads, We have mentioned them before on this thread, go back a little and you will see.
But as a said before, I always thought they copied us, In saying that one Black lad Lenny V who was also a Kilburn Lad was the smartest bloke in the area and had a influence over some of us smarter Skinheads.
One thing is worth saying, Rudies never wore boots and Braces, but some Black lads who was in our Mob did. To be more precise, Black lads who hung around with us would dress like us, White lads who hung around with Black lads dressed like them.smile.gif
A Original Rudie with Me in Brum last Year.
IMG_0642.jpg

Looking at this smart looking fellas it reminded me the covers of vintage men's magazines I recently got in a trip to Tokyo. Again it's not skinhead but I think it's still relevant and very interesting in context.
469469261469
post #4550 of 18562
And this photo is just hilarious.
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post #4551 of 18562
Anyone interested in a cheap pair of Made in England Docs? 1460..in market place.

Shameless plug
post #4552 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post

some really interesting stuff overnight!
that is a great record by Jackie Mittoo...and I always liked his pics wearing a suit as well. yes the jacket is a very short bumfreezer, but quite a few artists at that time wore them like that, Sam Cooke immediately comes to mind.
I'm glad the Jamaica thing was brought up, the one bit of nonsense I've heard over the years by American skinheads is the mantra "the first skinheads were Jamaican". One of my good mates when i was about 19 wore a Jamaican flag on his MA-1 along with Star n Stripes, and I thought that slightly strange. I also never quite understood jamaican flags being displayed at ska/reggae do's, as well as having booths of jamaican food??? I mean, i get where it's coming from, but think it's odd.

I just do not know where this Jamaica flag comes from? , I have even seen the Union Jack in Jamaica colours, biggrin.gif Someone did explain to me its a 80s thing, But i still do not get it, smile.gif
Its the same for Reggae, Original Skinheads was interested in Reggae for about Two years, Once we moved on from the Skinhead thing.. no one was interested in Reggae, Ask any Original skinhead about the music he likes over the Years and Reggae wont even get a mention. To this day i never understood why Skinheads liked Reggae in the first place, In saying that Liquidator still gives me a buzz, Reminds me of standing on the Shed end at Chelsea.smile.gif
post #4553 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasttye View Post


I just do not know where this Jamaica flag comes from? , I have even seen the Union Jack in Jamaica colours, biggrin.gif Someone did explain to me its a 80s thing, But i still do not get it, smile.gif
Its the same for Reggae, Original Skinheads was interested in Reggae for about Two years, Once we moved on from the Skinhead thing.. no one was interested in Reggae, Ask any Original skinhead about the music he likes over the Years and Reggae wont even get a mention. To this day i never understood why Skinheads liked Reggae in the first place, In saying that Liquidator still gives me a buzz, Reminds me of standing on the Shed end at Chelsea.smile.gif


I always loved going to Stamford Bridge....for a ruck! Always a good place for a right old fashioned off. Not like the Arsenal or worse still the tiddlers of WHL! biggrin.gif

 

Everyone I knew (my age and older) that were Skinheads preferred Motown or good old fashioned heavy rock - Free, Led Zep, Faces, Alex Harvey, Mott the Hoople, Budgie, Stray etc. Reggae was good for dancing but not as good as Motown. Those Chartbusters albums were great! I remember seeing a lot of Skinheads at the Lyceum for heavy rock gigs. Sheperds Bush and Brixton markets were great places to find early Bluebeat label or later Rock Steady and Reggae imports. We used to go up to London from New Cross/Deptford/Greenwich area to a shop in (I think) Hanway Street that was good for Reggae, this would be '68-'70. After this it was all about Yob-Rock....Faces, Mott, Hustler, Tiger, Crushed Butler, Sabbath even! Although I did have mates that went the Philly Soul route too.

post #4554 of 18562

One thing i've always been curious about  :-

 

Given that fighting was an inevitable and unavoidable part of the early skinhead scene due to the gang culture,

and as most skinheads were  young i.e.15 to 18 years, and presumably only owned a couple of smart shirts, 1 smart pair of boots and shoes, and perhaps 2 pairs of quality sta-prest.

Aren't they/you brawling in your best gear?

At that early age with quite a limited wardrobe, I'd imagine you wouldn't want to, or couldn't afford to replace the damaged garments very quickly.

Or was there a seperate more expendable outfit for when fighting was  likely to take place, like on the football terraces?

 

Bit of a dilema I'd imagine. You want to look the bollocks and impress rival gangs and girls, by wearing your best gear, but you'd have to be careful not to wreck it.

Bit different for glammed up 70's boot boys, them outfits are far more expendable (and scruffier).

 

fight[1].gif

post #4555 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsnpressure View Post

One thing i've always been curious about  :-

Given that fighting was an inevitable and unavoidable part of the early skinhead scene due to the gang culture,
and as most skinheads were  young i.e.15 to 18 years, and presumably only owned a couple of smart shirts, 1 smart pair of boots and shoes, and perhaps 2 pairs of quality sta-prest.
Aren't they/you brawling in your best gear?
At that early age with quite a limited wardrobe, I'd imagine you wouldn't want to, or couldn't afford to replace the damaged garments very quickly.
Or was there a seperate more expendable outfit for when fighting was  likely to take place, like on the football terraces?

Bit of a dilema I'd imagine. You want to look the bollocks and impress rival gangs and girls, by wearing your best gear, but you'd have to be careful not to wreck it.
Bit different for glammed up 70's boot boys, them outfits are far more expendable (and scruffier).

fight%5B1%5D.gif

If there was Aggro,you would dress for it - Jeans,Boots etc.I have seen Aggro go off in Dancehalls when Suits were being worn,which to me happened.I remember there was a rumour ,one night,a Mob was coming "Tooled Up".Outside of the Club where we were waiting,one of the Boys was carrying a Pair of DMs(ready to change into-when the ruck started).Still brings a smile to my Face even after all these years.

It just goes to show (again) the Variation in different Areas-even within London.This is old ground we are covering regarding whether Jamaicans influenced White Kids.If you went to the local Youth Club,you would say no.If,like me, you went to Jamaican Clubs you would say the opposite.Even the Crop(with the Razor Parting)was copied from the Jamaicans who in turn copied it from the American Negro.I was 18, I saw more of what was happening in London than say 15 year olds(or even younger),who were staying mainly in their local Areas-or go 2 miles down the road.

Roy,there were People who followed the Skinhead Fashion,who did not go for the Aggro.As we have said many,many times it was a Fashion!!!To say they were not Skinheads is a bit strong Mate.After `69 I did not go to Football because of the escalating violence does that mean I was not a Skinhead-even though I have stood in the "Shed! and had a ruck with Chelsea,on more than one occasion(in `68).I think memories start going after a while.I am lucky in that I have a Sister(who is the same age as you,Roy)that can remember it and backme up on a lot of facts.She used to knock around with us not Skinheads of Her own age.
post #4556 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsnpressure View Post

One thing i've always been curious about  :-

Given that fighting was an inevitable and unavoidable part of the early skinhead scene due to the gang culture,
and as most skinheads were  young i.e.15 to 18 years, and presumably only owned a couple of smart shirts, 1 smart pair of boots and shoes, and perhaps 2 pairs of quality sta-prest.
Aren't they/you brawling in your best gear?
At that early age with quite a limited wardrobe, I'd imagine you wouldn't want to, or couldn't afford to replace the damaged garments very quickly.
Or was there a seperate more expendable outfit for when fighting was  likely to take place, like on the football terraces?

Bit of a dilema I'd imagine. You want to look the bollocks and impress rival gangs and girls, by wearing your best gear, but you'd have to be careful not to wreck it.
Bit different for glammed up 70's boot boys, them outfits are far more expendable (and scruffier).

fight%5B1%5D.gif

By late 69/70 I had Two bespoke suits, a Bespoke Crombie, Two Pairs of Brogues, One Plain Caps, Gibsons, Two Loathers, About Thirty Shirts, every colour of StaPress, Loads of Cords, Jeans, jumpers.

Fights could break out at anytime... in the youth club or suited up at the weekend, Blokes would fight regardless if they was wearing a suit or not, Many a Skinhead would get his new suit out of the Tailors on a Saturday evening only to get it ripped to fcuk that night in a fight.

Whats got to be remembered well all worked, even the younger Skinheads at school would have evening jobs, I would spend a weeks wages on a pair of Royals,and stay in all weekend, Or lend off me Mum to get out. You had to have the clobber, smile.gif
You would walk up Kilburn High road on a Summers evening, Suit on Shoes polished feeling a million dollars, Girls would pass comment even your mates would give you the thumbs up, But if you walked in the Pub wearing say Loake brogues or any cheap shit the piss would be taken out of you. Thats the way it was for us.
Edited by Lasttye - 11/23/11 at 9:45am
post #4557 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

If there was Aggro,you would dress for it - Jeans,Boots etc.I have seen Aggro go off in Dancehalls when Suits were being worn,which to me happened.I remember there was a rumour ,one night,a Mob was coming "Tooled Up".Outside of the Club where we were waiting,one of the Boys was carrying a Pair of DMs(ready to change into-when the ruck started).Still brings a smile to my Face even after all these years.

Roy,there were People who followed the Skinhead Fashion,who did not go for the Aggro.As we have said many,many times it was a Fashion!!!To say they were not Skinheads is a bit strong Mate.After `69 I did not go to Football because of the escalating violence does that mean I was not a Skinhead-even though I have stood in the "Shed! and had a ruck with Chelsea,on more than one occasion(in `68).I think memories start going after a while.I am lucky in that I have a Sister(who is the same age as you,Roy)that can remember it and backme up on a lot of facts.She used to knock around with us not Skinheads of Her own age.

Iam sure their was Skinheads who was not into gangs Colin, and am sure they was not all wankers, but they was not part of my world, My world and the mates around me was in constant battle, if it was not at football it was during the week with rival local gangs, it was relentless, if we was not fighting we was talking about it.. or planning it, By 73 i had enough and walked away, its only the last couple of years that i have made contact with some of my old Kilburn mates, Some that i have not seen for near 40 years, Looking back i cant believe some of the things i did and saw, but i have no regrets,
The thing is we was all the same... some worst than others, but my experience helped me in later life, especially bringing up Two Sons.
post #4558 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambarock View Post

Actually I just got yesterday this BB BF knit polo at a charity sale (hence the x mark in the tag). Very similar to the Smedley you (and I) have but also has the grosgrain detail. Something that I personally appreciate. Again not skinhead (mod perhaps).
261

i love those Black Fleece polos. have a few myself, don't consider them "skinhead gear" not that matters to me but they definitely can be worn in a skinhead context outfit without looking out of place. Great details and tend to fit very well. The staprest look great as well, esp that color you describe which def doesnt translate in photo.

the 60s gang stories are interesting...i suppose today's skinhead is far safer than those who came before as I dont think there is nearly the level of violence there was in the 60s and up to the 90s even. I remember playing in an oi band years ago, rival crew would send supporters to our gig to see how deep we rolled with our own support (the band had a gang attachment) so they could get an idea of how easy/hard it would be to bash us at an upcoming gig. Quite a few friends have been stabbed over the years, one aquaintance killed even, all over skinhead violence, so it's unfortunately not all shiny shoes and nice shirts. Looking back it's def silly nonsense with some terrible results. frown.gif
post #4559 of 18562
What Browniecj said Skinheads was a fashion in the 60s, Yes thats correct, but whats worth saying the Skinhead cult was all about Violence, Thats what the boots was for, the whole look was of aggression their is no getting away from this and the more the Press went on about it , it made things worse. I remember kids at school who was passive, but once they bought some boots and cropped their hair it changed them, I think it must be hard for people now to understand how big the Skinhead thing was for those short couple of years. But believe me it was fcuking mad. Nothing before or since has seen their like, and it will never happen again. The Country has changed to much.
Edited by Lasttye - 11/23/11 at 9:29am
post #4560 of 18562

Cheers Brownie and Roy. Very interesting.

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