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Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by browniecj

Going to this-Jan.22nd.Going to be a good night out.

Please tell me you won't be wearing a bow tie!

browniecj · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

Please tell me you won't be wearing a bow tie!
Yep!and a Dinner Suit.

:

Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by browniecj

Yep!and a Dinner Suit.

:

We'd all pay to see that!

Southlondongent · Jan 15, 2011

Anybody seen the film 'Babylon' (1980)? It's set in the Reggae scene of South London in the late 70's/early 80's. Good film with a cool soundtrack.

There is a scene where Carl 'Brush Strokes' Howden (who is white) is speaking to his black mate played by Brinsley Forde (Please Sir!, Aswad) about when they were skins in the late 60's, the clothes, music etc.

BTW in Please Sir! (a British sit-com of the late 60's/early 70's) Brinsley Forde played a Rude Boy character who wore Harringtons, BD shirts, Sta-prest etc.

Darksideoftheforce · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

I've gotta say I agree with MoM. My folks and their mates were not invovled in PB-ing in the area of West London where they lived. In fact later in the 70's I went with them to Rock against Racism festivals etc. Now I'm not saying they were angels! They were invovled in rucks and went to the seaside on bank holidays and were in trouble with the law etc. I'd like to think this was fair fights against other gangs. However violence and fighting is and always has been a fact of life if you grow up working class.

Also, and I don't want to get too socio-polictal lecturing - the main incidents of PB-ing as I understand it were in the East End or at least started there. This is after Powell's rivers of blood speech and tensions were running high. There has always been incidents of prejedice in the East End - Mosleys blackshirts, Battle of Cable St etc.

Now if Teddy Boys were the main fashion cult in the late 60's this would be associated with them. It's just that at that particular time Skinhead was the look of the majority of working class youth

As far as I am aware that documentary was filmed in East London and it was trying to be sensationlist as the media usually is. 4 or 5 kids were interivewed and were meant to speak for the attitudes of thousands of kids around the country.

Now I'm not going to look at this through rose-tinted glasses and say it didn't go on or wasn't an issue. It might be significant that when skins started receiving press the originals started growing their hair a bit longer and the styles were changing - I've heard this was to avoid trouble from the law and to be able to get a job etc.

It's a shame that this is what tends to be remembered most by a lot of people wheras it was not reflective of all skins who IMO were mainly apolitical (though not adverse to a bit of bovver!)

Lecture over!

SouthLondon, M-o-M and Brown and all the others thanks for the detailed answer and the history lesson. I definately agree that it doesn't do the original skinheads justice when all the negativity is all that's remembered about them especially when politics was not central to the skinhead subculture to begin with. I guess that's the point that the media tends to ignore, documentaries that paints skins in a political light isn't reflective of all skins.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, weren't the Teddy Boys also associated with similar clashes with West Indian immigrants in the 50s like the Notting Hill Riots?

Darksideoftheforce · Jan 15, 2011

So this thread has talked about the polular skinhead brands like FPs, Ben Shermans Merc and such, but how popular was the Lonsdale brand in the 60s? ( My apologies if its been discussed before)I've seen a few skins around here sporting Lonsdale logo jackets. I currently don't own any Lonsdale items myself.

Were jackets like these or similar common among skins and mods back then?

Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Darksideoftheforce

Also correct me if I'm wrong, weren't the Teddy Boys also associated with similar clashes with West Indian immigrants in the 50s like the Notting Hill Riots?

I believe so, although again that would not have been a necessary teddy boy "bolt-on".

I recall seeing a musical play on TV several decades back. It was written by and featured music by a West-Indian-British musician, and one of the scenes was about a recent JA immigrant being hassled by teds. There was a call-and-response song in which the words "Teddy boys... flick knives... bicycle chains..." were repeated. That proves nothing in itself, except that the perception was there.

I have been googling to see if I can identify the play but I can't so far.

I am certain that any surviving "old" teds (who would have to be about 70 now at the youngest!) would make the same observations about themselves that we have been making about the first generation of skinheads.

Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Darksideoftheforce

Were jackets like these or similar common among skins and mods back then?

Nope.

.

Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

BTW in Please Sir! (a British sit-com of the late 60's/early 70's) Brinsley Forde played a Rude Boy character who wore Harringtons, BD shirts, Sta-prest etc.

Googled for pics of him in character but now luck.

Southlondongent · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Darksideoftheforce

. Also correct me if I'm wrong, weren't the Teddy Boys also associated with similar clashes with West Indian immigrants in the 50s like the Notting Hill Riots?

Yes Darkside, that's right in '58. That's the area my mum grew up in - nowadays some of the houses cost millions, but back then it was predominatley a poor area with a big West Indian and also Irish immigrant population.

Originally Posted by Darksideoftheforce

So this thread has talked about the polular skinhead brands like FPs, Ben Shermans Merc and such, but how popular was the Lonsdale brand in the 60s? ( My apologies if its been discussed before)I've seen a few skins around here sporting Lonsdale logo jackets. I currently don't own any Lonsdale items myself.

To the best of my knowledge Lonsdale was only worn in the revival, Merc as well.

Southlondongent · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

I believe so, although again that would not have been a necessary teddy boy "bolt-on".

I recall seeing a musical play on TV several decades back. It was written by and featured music by a West-Indian-British musician, and one of the scenes was about a recent JA immigrant being hassled by teds. There was a call-and-response song in which the words "Teddy boys... flick knives... bicycle chains..." were repeated. That proves nothing in itself, except that the perception was there.

I have been googling to see if I can identify the play but I can't so far.

I am certain that any surviving "old" teds (who would have to be about 70 now at the youngest!) would make the same observations about themselves that we have been making about the first generation of skinheads.

You're not thinking of 'Absolute Beginners' are you?

Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

You're not thinking of 'Absolute Beginners' are you?

No, something much more small-time and shoe-string.

loempiavreter · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

I recall seeing a musical play on TV several decades back. It was written by and featured music by a West-Indian-British musician, and one of the scenes was about a recent JA immigrant being hassled by teds. There was a call-and-response song in which the words "Teddy boys... flick knives... bicycle chains..." were repeated. That proves nothing in itself, except that the perception was there.

This one perhaps?

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Man-of-Mystery · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by loempiavreter

This one perhaps?

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

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No. It was made in the 1980s, I think. It used very simple studio sets and was really a showcase for the guy's band to play some reggae-ish music with "scenes" in between. It's pretty bloody obscure, not very good, and no worries if no one can find it, as it's a little off-topic.

browniecj · Jan 15, 2011

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

Anybody seen the film 'Babylon' (1980)? It's set in the Reggae scene of South London in the late 70's/early 80's. Good film with a cool soundtrack.

There is a scene where Carl 'Brush Strokes' Howden (who is white) is speaking to his black mate played by Brinsley Forde (Please Sir!, Aswad) about when they were skins in the late 60's, the clothes, music etc.

BTW in Please Sir! (a British sit-com of the late 60's/early 70's) Brinsley Forde played a Rude Boy character who wore Harringtons, BD shirts, Sta-prest etc.
Did not see this Film when it first came out.I was more into "Lovers Rock" at the time.The "Roots"Soundtrack left me cold.I can just remember Brinsley Forde in "Please Sir",
There were good Plays coming out-at the time-at Theatre Royal,Stratford East,which had the likes of Rudolph Walker(Love Thy Neighbour) and Paul Barber(Denzil-Only Fools And Horses)starring in Productions written by little known Playwrights.

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