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Mod to Suedehead

flyfronted

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I am still trying to catch up with everything here and on 'other portals'.



I also saw this (not sure if it is the same site) and KR made reference to the book we are proposing and how he hoped it would put the record straight.

He was responding to a mischievous post by an 'Original Modernist' who chose to include that very 'staged' pic of skinheads and hippies in Piccadilly Circus and said this was a 'good reason for it ending in 1966'.
I know Kev quite well and can ask him directly . Maybe once the book is finished and he approves he could write the foreword ?
 

flyfronted

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Maybe we weren't rebellious in the classic sense of fighting the establishment,but the look we chose was frowned upon by most of our white elders.
I distinctly recall walking down the Stone Rd in Stafford ,on my way to the Youth Club.It was a road full of mixed race.I was dressed in short blue line POW strides,black socks,black box tops,black Barathea and blue pinpoint Oxford.It was summertime,and there was a group of Jamaican men chatting outside the front.They started slapping ther fingers,smiling and generally saying positive **** about our look.It was the first and only time I recall anyone older giving us a positive nod.It just put an extra bounce in our step that they "understood" the look.
Something missed is also that the JA's / Rudies took there style from what was worn 'back a yard ' but that was totally influenced by what BlacK America was wearing ( which of course was a Ghetto spin on Ivy League ) as Queens in NY had the biggest Jamaican community outside of Kingston itself ..
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/01/03/the-dapper-rebels-of-los-angeles-1966/
 
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Gsvs5

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Something missed is also that the JA's / Rudies took there style from what was worn 'back a yard ' but that was totally influenced by what BlacK America was wearing ( which of course was a Ghetto spin on Ivy League ) as Queens in NY had the biggest Jamaican community outside of Kingston itself ..
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/01/03/the-dapper-rebels-of-los-angeles-1966/
That's a surprise re the demographics?I must admit ,when I first came to New York in '76 after living continuously in England,I was taken aback at how little reggae I heard played and the seeming lack of appreciation for it.
 

Mr Knightley

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Watermelon man I agree completely. I have in the past made the same comparison with the great Beau, but it fell on stony ground. We must remember just how ground breaking dandyism was. Beau Brummell took ordinary hunting clothes and turned them into super-smart town wear. Just like the early skinhead he was proclaiming less is more!
 

Watermelon man

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Watermelon man I agree completely. I have in the past made the same comparison with the great Beau, but it fell on stony ground. We must remember just how ground breaking dandyism was. Beau Brummell took ordinary hunting clothes and turned them into super-smart town wear. Just like the early skinhead he was proclaiming less is more!
I think you can take the parallel too far, but it's easy to forget how absurd mens' fashions became (albeit for only a brief period) in the mid-1960s.
 
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Studio1st

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Ignoring the price tag (although I notice it does qualify for free delivery which is nice!) how would a jacket like this have been received at the time?

http://www.stuartslondon.com/coats-...960s-suede-bomber-jacket-blue-70748-001-p9672

Personally I think it's lovely, just slightly beyond my means.....

Off Topic about reggae in New York late sixties/seventies as mentioned above - it was an underground West Indian ex-pat scene that only really existed in a few bars/clubs and shops. Roydale Anderson, owner of the 'Andy's' record label published his reminisces about moving to New York and trying to set up a production/distribution operation in the 70's ('My Reggae Journey').

The American style influences on Jamaicans - and by extension West Indian settlers in England were huge in the sixties.
 

roytonboy

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Re: Kevin Rowlands

An interesting read and whilst I can relate to some of it, much of it varies greatly from my own experience. (and, I would suggest, a great many former skinheads)

For me becoming a skinhead was a conscious decision. I was too young to have been a mod and thus for me the look didn't evolve from hair gradually getting shorter until ultimately it was a 'crop'. I did wear some articles of clothing that were considered 'mod' at the time (the term 'mod' was still used in 1967/68) such as a surf jacket, Levi's, brogues and probably I would have become a mod had that look endured. I recall, however, a friend who was a year older than me talking about getting a paisley shirt with frills, very trendy at the time and I can remember thinking "What!?!?" I just didn't see myself in clothes like that - if that's what mod fashion is becoming, not for me!

My main influence was going to watch Manchester City - no frills on the terraces there - and the older lads dressed in a style I could relate to. Many had short hair (easily recognisable as a forerunner of 'skinhead' even in 1967-1968) I still remember the first time I heard the term 'skinhead'. I used to sometimes chat to a lad at school who had always been a trendy. One day he told me that the night before he and his mates had been fighting some 'peanuts' "Who?" I asked, "You know, skinheads" He then described them to me. I thought, why are you fighting with them, you are all mods.I stepped back and took a look at him - parka, hair like Ray Davis of the Kinks, Paisley shirt and tie, flares. I knew which camp I was in! This was in early 1969 - I was 14. Soon after articles started to appear in the press about skinheads and it was not long after that that two of my mates and I decided that we would become skinheads. During the same half term holiday we all went and had the crop - the first skinheads in the school, talk about causing a stir - I already had some of the clothes and for the next 2 years I was never seen out without skinhead 'clobber'. I did wear boots, virtually all the time. I was proud to be a skinhead, I never considered it as a continuation of mod fashion and to this day I'm proud of my skinhead past and the experiences it gave me. For about 18 months, when I was aged 14 and 15 being a skinhead was about Saturday afternoon. The lunchtime ritual of polishing my boots whilst listening to Emperor Roscoe on Radio 1, the excitement of getting to the match, seeing what the older lads were wearing, feeling involved. Yes, I was a follower - I was 14! Socialising was no more than local youth clubs at that time - but you still had to look the part. When I was 16 I started to go to a local Soul club and everybody there was a skinhead and at that time (Late 1970) we were all wearing traditional skinhead wear - denims, check shirts, sleeveless pull-overs (a small number of the lads were wearing Doc Martens!) - and now all aspects of my life were influenced by being a skinhead. All my close friends were skinheads I listened to and exclusively bought soul and reggae records and the first girls I ever 'got off' with were all skinheads. I recall vividly around this time going out one night in my denims, checked BD and mac and having an inward glow that I had completely nailed 'the look'. I was where it's at - well, that's how I felt anyway! By early 1971 we were going out quite a bit smarter, Blazers, POW trousers, two tones as the move towards 'suedehead' had commenced. I can still remember some of the clothes I wore to certain nights out, even to certain matches.

Even now many of those influences hold true - my music collection contains hundreds (possibly thousands) of soul tracks and it's still my greatest preference. I still wear brogues and button down collars for work, Levi's to the pub (they're just not turned up anymore) and I still frequent the noisier parts of the stadium at Manchester City.

In contrast, Kevin Rowland seems to be one of these who likes to portray and image of "Yeah, I was a skinhead before anyone else, but when everybody else started doing it, I moved on" and is almost in denial about the whole thing - "people in London who talked to the press about being a skinhead were beaten up by the other short haired kids" - hardly "Walking Proud".
 

Watermelon man

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I can vouch for that first hand.
smile.gif
Me too. I think bad taste reached its apogee at some time in the 1970s, however.
smile.gif
 
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browniecj

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I think you can safely say-all decades had their disaster areas :)
 

browniecj

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Talking to an older Jamaican the other week about Reggae recorded in New York(in the 70s).What I never realised was it was given slightly different "Beat".He told me you could know the difference when you listened to them(I normally went by the Label) and then spun Jamaican and American produced Reggae side by side.I know its a bit off Subject but it was something I found interesting. :)
 

flyfronted

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That's a surprise re the demographics?I must admit ,when I first came to New York in '76 after living continuously in England,I was taken aback at how little reggae I heard played and the seeming lack of appreciation for it.


All the big Reggae stars would fly across to NY to do big shows for there community but it never crossed over to the african american community i guess simply due to the wealth of Soul / Funk / Jazz and Disco that made the 70s the golden period of black american music thats never been repeated . The 80s Casual / soul boy look was also influenced in London via JA via NY when the Jamaican community nicked the Goodfeller / wise guy look the Italians sported ( JA's always loved the gangster connection ) and in turn the london stores in black areas started selling versions .. ie Gabbichi and farah . Many Reggae producers and stars now live in NY as its far safer than Kingston and they actually sell more music there .
 

flyfronted

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Re: Kevin Rowlands

An interesting read and whilst I can relate to some of it, much of it varies greatly from my own experience. (and, I would suggest, a great many former skinheads)

For me becoming a skinhead was a conscious decision. I was too young to have been a mod and thus for me the look didn't evolve from hair gradually getting shorter until ultimately it was a 'crop'. I did wear some articles of clothing that were considered 'mod' at the time (the term 'mod' was still used in 1967/68) such as a surf jacket, Levi's, brogues and probably I would have become a mod had that look endured. I recall, however, a friend who was a year older than me talking about getting a paisley shirt with frills, very trendy at the time and I can remember thinking "What!?!?" I just didn't see myself in clothes like that - if that's what mod fashion is becoming, not for me!

My main influence was going to watch Manchester City - no frills on the terraces there - and the older lads dressed in a style I could relate to. Many had short hair (easily recognisable as a forerunner of 'skinhead' even in 1967-1968) I still remember the first time I heard the term 'skinhead'. I used to sometimes chat to a lad at school who had always been a trendy. One day he told me that the night before he and his mates had been fighting some 'peanuts' "Who?" I asked, "You know, skinheads" He then described them to me. I thought, why are you fighting with them, you are all mods.I stepped back and took a look at him - parka, hair like Ray Davis of the Kinks, Paisley shirt and tie, flares. I knew which camp I was in! This was in early 1969 - I was 14. Soon after articles started to appear in the press about skinheads and it was not long after that that two of my mates and I decided that we would become skinheads. During the same half term holiday we all went and had the crop - the first skinheads in the school, talk about causing a stir - I already had some of the clothes and for the next 2 years I was never seen out without skinhead 'clobber'. I did wear boots, virtually all the time. I was proud to be a skinhead, I never considered it as a continuation of mod fashion and to this day I'm proud of my skinhead past and the experiences it gave me. For about 18 months, when I was aged 14 and 15 being a skinhead was about Saturday afternoon. The lunchtime ritual of polishing my boots whilst listening to Emperor Roscoe on Radio 1, the excitement of getting to the match, seeing what the older lads were wearing, feeling involved. Yes, I was a follower - I was 14! Socialising was no more than local youth clubs at that time - but you still had to look the part. When I was 16 I started to go to a local Soul club and everybody there was a skinhead and at that time (Late 1970) we were all wearing traditional skinhead wear - denims, check shirts, sleeveless pull-overs (a small number of the lads were wearing Doc Martens!) - and now all aspects of my life were influenced by being a skinhead. All my close friends were skinheads I listened to and exclusively bought soul and reggae records and the first girls I ever 'got off' with were all skinheads. I recall vividly around this time going out one night in my denims, checked BD and mac and having an inward glow that I had completely nailed 'the look'. I was where it's at - well, that's how I felt anyway! By early 1971 we were going out quite a bit smarter, Blazers, POW trousers, two tones as the move towards 'suedehead' had commenced. I can still remember some of the clothes I wore to certain nights out, even to certain matches.

Even now many of those influences hold true - my music collection contains hundreds (possibly thousands) of soul tracks and it's still my greatest preference. I still wear brogues and button down collars for work, Levi's to the pub (they're just not turned up anymore) and I still frequent the noisier parts of the stadium at Manchester City.

In contrast, Kevin Rowland seems to be one of these who likes to portray and image of "Yeah, I was a skinhead before anyone else, but when everybody else started doing it, I moved on" and is almost in denial about the whole thing - "people in London who talked to the press about being a skinhead were beaten up by the other short haired kids" - hardly "Walking Proud".
Those who start things off always move on when things go nationwide / mainstream , Mod , skin , casual .. always will be like that .
 

roytonboy

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Those who start things off always move on when things go nationwide / mainstream , Mod , skin , casual .. always will be like that .

Of course, like those who form an attachment to an up and coming band will loose interest when they make it big. (often claiming they have 'sold out')

The point I was making is Kevin Rowland seems to portray the skinhead image as a something people wanted to quickly disassociate themselves from, whereas I (and I believe many others who lived through it) regard it quite differently. Where I do agree with him is the influence of the press, particularly on '**** bashin'
 
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