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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1583

post #23731 of 24913

I think wearing lee and wranglers without selvedge would be more acceptable then Levis if you are trying to recreate the original ''look'', seeing as Levis were selvedge back then.

post #23732 of 24913
^^ good morning! Think of it like this. Before the mid-80s selvedge was just how Levis came, no choice in the matter, so selvedge is saying nothing that the tab and pocket stitching aren't already saying. Brownie CJ or whoever it was is not 'wrong', they are just not as 'correct' as you might (now) think they are (now that you have absorbed several decades worth of product differentiation by selvedge)

Summary: selvedge means something different now
Edited by covskin - 7/7/16 at 3:17am
post #23733 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddietradskin88 View Post


Thank you very much.. Is there anyway you could provide pictures?? That was very helpful.

 

As I mentioned earlier, there  is an interesting discussion on the subject of 'Suedehead' for a few pages from page 1238 - if it's a style that interests you it's worth a read. Clouseau posted some photos on page 1244.  - as you can see, there is a mix of hair lengths and items of clothing showing that skinhead to suedehead was a gradual transition.To me, the shorter hairstyles in the first photo is what I think of as 'Suedehead', by the second, a fewer number have that shorter style but the clothes are exactly what we were wearing for a night out mid - late 1971.   I have tried to illustrate the transition from skinheads right through to mid-70's Boot Boy on page 1245. The article 'Meet The Crombie Boys' is also in there somewhere.

 

As ever, just remember it is all semantics - what I refer to as 'Suedehead' others will think of as 'late skinhead', others still would call the style 'Smoothie'. Timescales will vary from region to region and the look (like skinhead) was also slightly different in different areas.

post #23734 of 24913

Blighty Beat in Coventry are having a 50% sale to reduce stock. Loads of decent clothes in there and all half price.

 

From their Facebook page

 

We are having to reduce our stock to make room for our refit in September, we are having a massive 50% Off everything (excluding Ruby Riot's Clothing), this includes shoes, records, books, the works. Labels include Art Gallery, Brutus, Gabicci, Merc and lots more... Sale starts Saturday 2nd July, get down and bag a bargain or two.
Please share this post with as many people as you can!

 

https://www.facebook.com/blightybeatleamington/?fref=ts

Coventry

 

Think the sale is on for a month.

post #23735 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post

^^ good morning! Think of it like this. Before the mid-80s selvedge was just how Levis came, no choice in the matter, so selvedge is saying nothing that the tab and pocket stitching aren't already saying. Brownie CJ or whoever it was is not 'wrong', they are just not as 'correct' as you might (now) think they are (now that you have absorbed several decades worth of product differentiation by selvedge)

Summary: selvedge means something different now

That still leaves us with the question: what were turnups mainly for? 

 

1) to show off the selvedge. Unlikely if selvedge 'didn't matter'. However, here's the relevant quote from Lasttye (not BrownieCJ) from p. 739: "I always thought we turned our Levis up to show off the selvedge...The selvedge was and is to me a very important part of the skinhead look...that todays skinheads seemed to have lost".

 

2) just to make sure your strides don't slouch all over your boots - something I remember MoM saying

 

3) to show off your boots properly, which is the most common assumption.

 

From my own point of view, I do it mainly for reason 3 and simply because turnups are part of the look.

post #23736 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post



Now if you wear your jeans with turn ups, selvage are a must. 

 

That would have been my gut instinct, too - hence I was planning to get internal turnups for my non-selvedge 501. Problem being, I wanted this pair for the summer, to be worn mainly with 3 eye DM smooths... and something about the DM smooths & internal turnup combination strikes me as not looking quite right.

 

Decisions, decisions.

post #23737 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post

^^ good morning! Think of it like this. Before the mid-80s selvedge was just how Levis came, no choice in the matter, so selvedge is saying nothing that the tab and pocket stitching aren't already saying. Brownie CJ or whoever it was is not 'wrong', they are just not as 'correct' as you might (now) think they are (now that you have absorbed several decades worth of product differentiation by selvedge)

Summary: selvedge means something different now

Wouldnt it be correct to say lee and wranglers were more common in the north?, at least i think i can remember someone saying that i think, and that levis were more common in london etc.
post #23738 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post

That would have been my gut instinct, too - hence I was planning to get internal turnups for my non-selvedge 501. Problem being, I wanted this pair for the summer, to be worn mainly with 3 eye DM smooths... and something about the DM smooths & internal turnup combination strikes me as not looking quite right.

Decisions, decisions.

Turnups or hemmed is just the ebb and flow of fashion. Hemmed only looks odd because turnups have been seen everywhere for a few years now. Twenty years ago and you would be thinking the opposite. I think there is something strikingly blank, plain and classically skinhead/suedehead about hemmed jeans with smooth dm shoes.
Edited by covskin - 7/7/16 at 5:32am
post #23739 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Jacket View Post


Wouldnt it be correct to say lee and wranglers were more common in the north?, at least i think i can remember someone saying that i think, and that levis were more common in london etc.

That seems to be the general view.
post #23740 of 24913
Guess i better stock up then lol, being a northerner myself. I guess it was one of the reasons northerners were viewed as scruffy in a way, not as much oppurtunity to get things like in london etc.
post #23741 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post

That still leaves us with the question: what were turnups mainly for? 

1) to show off the selvedge. Unlikely if selvedge 'didn't matter'. However, here's the relevant quote from Lasttye (not BrownieCJ) from p. 739: "I always thought we turned our Levis up to show off the selvedge...The selvedge was and is to me a very important part of the skinhead look...that todays skinheads seemed to have lost".

2) just to make sure your strides don't slouch all over your boots - something I remember MoM saying

3) to show off your boots properly, which is the most common assumption.

From my own point of view, I do it mainly for reason 3 and simply because turnups are part of the look.

2) was the original reason, as far as I knew, for wearing braces. Turn-ups on jeans was a fashion choice and had been around since mod days - see the pic below - but might also have had something to do with 2). It was a style difference with the late 50s/early 60s rockers, who wore skinny 'Tesco Bombers' with massive turn-ups.



As for selvedge, it was simply the way western jeans were made, as far as I can remember. Back in the day I hardly noticed, believe it or not!
post #23742 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Jacket View Post



Wouldnt it be correct to say lee and wranglers were more common in the north?, at least i think i can remember someone saying that i think, and that levis were more common in london etc.
hi dj, by coincidence I was in one of manchesters top shops today ,and was talking to a very knowledgeable sales person about Levi's and wranglers, he reckons he sells more wranglers than Levi's for various reasons, 1 wranglers seem to fit better around the waist.2 they seem to look and fit better on the " older"person. And 3, he feels they are better quality, he also added than customers who take a pair of Levi's and wranglers to try on are more likely to buy the wranglers,maybe it's still a northern thing
post #23743 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

 

AS SKINHEADS WE DRESSED IN:

...

 

Levi, Wrangler and Lee Rider jeans

Denim Jackets

(Denims could be bleached or unbleached)

 

...

 

BOTH SKINHEADS AND SUEDEHEADS WORE THE FOLLOWING:

 

...

 

 

Wrangler and Levi Jeans

 

...

 

Roytonboy, does it mean that the 'suedehead' considered the Lee Rider of lesser quality than Levi's or Wrangler ?

It surprises me a bit, as Lee is after Levi's the older historical jeans brand. And i think they are better quality than Wrangler (personal preference too !).

Is it a regional thing, or maybe the Lees were harder to find in your area ('None too common all over land' to quote J.Ferguson, but 'especially popular in the North before Levi's became widely available. Just as good too' to quote G.Marshall) ? Or was it just a fashion choice ?

 

Another question, i noticed you didn't put in you list the DM 'smooth' shoes. I remember that Mr Knightley/Brideshead and Browniecj said they wore them in 1970. Is it a regional thing again ?

 

And on the denim jacket subject, what about the Lee Rider Jacket ?

post #23744 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton heath View Post

hi dj, by coincidence I was in one of manchesters top shops today ,and was talking to a very knowledgeable sales person about Levi's and wranglers, he reckons he sells more wranglers than Levi's for various reasons, 1 wranglers seem to fit better around the waist.2 they seem to look and fit better on the " older"person. And 3, he feels they are better quality, he also added than customers who take a pair of Levi's and wranglers to try on are more likely to buy the wranglers,maybe it's still a northern thing

I cant say i really pay attention to what the average bloke wears on the street but ive probably seen more people wear wranglers then levis.

Did a brand called st micheal(an old m and s brand) ever make sta prest style trousers? I saw some beige trousers in a local charity shop and they had the same style of pockets/cut, they had a tiny bit of a crease but they will probably need ironing again, i will prob get them if they are still there tommorow.
post #23745 of 24913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Jacket View Post

I cant say i really pay attention to what the average bloke wears on the street but ive probably seen more people wear wranglers then levis.

Did a brand called st micheal(an old m and s brand) ever make sta prest style trousers? I saw some beige trousers in a local charity shop and they had the same style of pockets/cut, they had a tiny bit of a crease but they will probably need ironing again, i will prob get them if they are still there tommorow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Jacket View Post

I cant say i really pay attention to what the average bloke wears on the street but ive probably seen more people wear wranglers then levis.

Did a brand called st micheal(an old m and s brand) ever make sta prest style trousers? I saw some beige trousers in a local charity shop and they had the same style of pockets/cut, they had a tiny bit of a crease but they will probably need ironing again, i will prob get them if they are still there tommorow.

It's amazing what difference 200 miles makes. Down in the smoke Id hazard a guess that Levi's wearers outnumber their Wrangler counterparts by at least 20 to one- albeit that the vast majority of purveyors of both are straights with no recognisable sense of style.

The cause of this imbalance is no doubt mostly down to marketing and the number of outlets that flog the respective products.
A bit like during the Mod heyday Lambrettas outnumbered Vespas- they had a bigger advertising budget and more numerous vendors
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