or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mod to Suedehead - Page 1561

post #23401 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post
 

That's something I was going to ask about the original skins. I'm aware there were individual skins who were more into dancing than fighting, for example - or vice versa. Can you say the same about whole groups, though? I.e. would it be accurate to distinguish between, say, 'gang skins' who were into territorial warfare and probably a bit younger; older 'mod skins' who were dancing in the clubs, buying the records, and getting the girls; 'football skins'; etc... and that they're only viewed as part of the same, coherent youth cult in retrospect - even though they didn't actually have that much in common (aside from fashion)? 

 

Or was it all the same 'melting pot'?

 

Someone recently put this theory forward to me. He compared it to the punk scene, where you get many different subgroups that don't really have a lot in common. Not sure if this has any merit.

In my area there were different types of skinheads but it was also the same melting pot. My mob dressed smart and travelled all over London to pubs and clubs and it wasn't unusual to get into fights when wearing a mohair suit but we didn't go looking for trouble. The Dagenham Heathway mob hardly left their manor and would only visit local pubs and working mens clubs. They would be wearing the jungle greens, officer boots etc. And would fight strangers coming into their territory. The same went for the Barking mob who hung around the Westbury Arms pub. My mates went to four or five different schools so we knew most of the other gangs. For us it was clothes, music, clubs and pubs, football and having a good time. The fighting did happen but only with similar groups and normally over girls or football. There was no paki bashing or picking on vulnerable groups in my area.

post #23402 of 24873
In the forum vaults, a member of the Kilburn Aggro Mob- which I believe was a tag the media gave them, goes on to say that violence a key element of his skinhead days.
A comment that lodged in my brain, was that when he met up with an old mate and they reminisced their youth, they were still traumatised by the goings on of 45 years back.
post #23403 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post



Secondly, 'the suedehead look'. 'Suedehead' was a name that wasn't used seriously. If there was a 'look' it was very fleeting, and it was simply this: a bloke with his crop grown out, maybe as much as shoulder-length, wearing the same shoes, strides, and shirt as before, except that he unbuttoned the collar of his Ben Sherman. This lasted as long as it took to get to his next payday, after which he might buy his first non-skinhead shirt, maybe with a penny collar; and then to the next payday when he might get a pair of flares; and then to the next payday when he'd change his shoes. By that payday he'd be arty, and the 'suedehead' phase would be gone. It took a matter of weeks.

I think that the perception of the term 'Suedehead' is governed by age and, to a degree, locality. Whereas older skinheads who were ready to move on were happy to grow their hair and go a bit more mainstream in their clothing, younger followers of the style still wanted their own look. We had an interesting few pages of discussion on this starting on page 1238. Thus, people such as former forum member Cerneabbas were aspiring Suedeheads, having been too young to be skinheads. Although I hail from Greater Manchester and he from Bristol he agreed with the following list of clothing worn by Skinheads and Suedeheads. 

post #23404 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

Ha ha! Very succinct.......   :) 

 

With regard to "gentlemen's shoes" , I always regarded loafers, in their various guises, as a bit 'girlie', I wouldn't wear them.

 

 

On the subject of what we wore;

 

AS SKINHEADS WE DRESSED IN:

 

Parkas (very early skinhead)

Sheepskin coats

All types of boots

Wing tip bogues - usually tan, brown or oxblood

Plain and candy striped BD shirts

Braces showing (or not)

V neck sleeveless pullovers - plain or fair-isle

Cardigans (not very popular by us)

Light coloured sta-prest trousers

Levi, Wrangler and Lee Rider jeans

Denim Jackets

(Denims could be bleached or unbleached)

Fly fronted macs.

 

I know in other areas that things like army greens, collarless union shirts and granddad vest were worn but I don't recall seeing any of those by us.

 

BOTH SKINHEADS AND SUEDEHEADS WORE THE FOLLOWING:

 

Checked BD shirts

Wrangler and Levi Jeans

Doc Marten boots

Harrington Jackets

V - neck long sleeve pullovers

Prince of Wales check trousers

Blazers

Oxford toe capped shoes

Long winged brogues

 

SUEDEHEAD CLOTHES

 

Crombie overcoats

Red socks (very briefly, other bright colours)

Two tone trousers ("toniks")

3 Button jackets (various colours)

Parallel trousers, gradually getting wider (various colours)

Plain, deep coloured BD shirts (red, black, navy, green)

Fred Perrys

Shetland Wool crew neck sweaters

Loafers - plain, tassled, fringe and tassled

Moccasins

(Shoes were predominantly black, occasionally ox-blood)

Polo neck sweaters (very late suedehead)

Wider jeans - "Skinners" or "Wrangler Bags" - again, late suedehead, usually worn by the young 'uns

 

Thus it can be seen in our area (N.W. England) that Suedehead was the look most influenced by the Ivy League style (not that we were aware of that at the time....)

 

Interesting comments coming in, folks. Like many of you, I don't think there was perceived to be a difference - note the commonality of clothes. (Ed. for me, your statement "seamless transition" was spot on.) I have no doubt, however, that the clothes stated above will not be entirely agreed on by everyone - again, the old time/place continuum will come into play. Brownie, I must confess that I can't recall seeing the term 'Suedehead' ever mentioned in the press. Of course,that doesn't mean it wasn't.........

 

So, for some, there was a very clear 'Suedehead' look for a time, which maybe only lasted for about 6 months. I had that look though I probably never actually called myself a Suedehead, no doubt others,of a certain age, would have referred to me as such. I regard 'Suedehead' as the death throes of the Mod-Skinhead look. From this stage on (Spring 1972) youth fashion pretty much melded  into one and there was little difference between a bootboy, glam-rock followers, rock fans and your average kids buying high street fashion.

 
 
post #23405 of 24873
@roytonboy

Brian, what I want to know is did anybody (round your way) actually call themselves 'suedeheads', or get labelled 'suedeheads' by others, or indeed is 'suedehead' a description that was given afterwards? You say as a 'look' it only lasted about six months - that rather goes with what I said about it being a look that an individual bloke took three or four paydays to move through, six months would be about right for a whole bunch.
post #23406 of 24873
Around our way the transition from skinhead to smoothie (sorry that word again) just came naturally or peer pressure,but after that it seemed that when you started to get serious with a girl ,the gang gradually broke up and the uniformity of fashion deserted us we all did our own thing , we thankfully didn't go down the glam rock road.
post #23407 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post

@roytonboy

Brian, what I want to know is did anybody (round your way) actually call themselves 'suedeheads', or get labelled 'suedeheads' by others, or indeed is 'suedehead' a description that was given afterwards? You say as a 'look' it only lasted about six months - that rather goes with what I said about it being a look that an individual bloke took three or four paydays to move through, six months would be about right for a whole bunch.

To be honest, I can't remember. There were certainly no gangs who called themselves "Anytown Suedeheads" unlike the numerous, "Crossley Skins", "Royton Skins" , "High Crompton and Heyside Boot Boys" (Although it was actually HCHBB - they weren't painting the Sistene Chapel!) you saw sprayed all over the place between 1969 and 1971. My guess is that once the Richard Allen book 'Suedehead' hit the streets that some of the younger lads probably did. My memory of the 'look' was that in our area it lasted approximately one football season (1971/1972) By the following season lads were turning up in all sorts, painter's bib & brace (psuedo clock-work orange) Slade caps, spray painted gold or silver Doc Martens, 'football' jumpers, 'Jester' jumpers - a real mish-mash in fact.

 

Newton heath - another former member, elwood, who was originally from the Whitefield area, posted that they called themselves 'Smoothies' but their clothes were what I think of as 'Suedehead'. This was a lad who used to stand on the same terrace as me at Maine Road in season 1971/72! I think (as Cerneabbas is) that he is a couple of years younger than you and I. Maybe the distinction originally was simply on length of hair (short and styled, 'Suedehead', getting longer. 'Smoothie') Obviously very local variations and probably dependent on age, locality factors and peer group (i.e. did someone go around with lads who were older or younger than them.)

post #23408 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

To be honest, I can't remember. There were certainly no gangs who called themselves "Anytown Suedeheads" unlike the numerous, "Crossley Skins", "Royton Skins" , "High Crompton and Heyside Boot Boys" (Although it was actually HCHBB - they weren't painting the Sistene Chapel!) you saw sprayed all over the place between 1969 and 1971. My guess is that once the Richard Allen book 'Suedehead' hit the streets that some of the younger lads probably did. My memory of the 'look' was that in our area it lasted approximately one football season (1971/1972) By the following season lads were turning up in all sorts, painter's bib & brace (psuedo clock-work orange) Slade caps, spray painted gold or silver Doc Martens, 'football' jumpers, 'Jester' jumpers - a real mish-mash in fact.

Newton heath - another former member, elwood, who was originally from the Whitefield area, posted that they called themselves 'Smoothies' but their clothes were what I think of as 'Suedehead'. This was a lad who used to stand on the same terrace as me at Maine Road in season 1971/72! I think (as Cerneabbas is) that he is a couple of years younger than you and I. Maybe the distinction originally was simply on length of hair (short and styled, 'Suedehead', getting longer. 'Smoothie') Obviously very local variations and probably dependent on age, locality factors and peer group (i.e. did someone go around with lads who were older or younger than them.)

Thanks. smile.gif
post #23409 of 24873
I remember something called "Mount Hill Boot Boys" in Bristol about 1973. Which was a reference to Mount Hill Road in Kingswood. I'm sure they were all Rovers supporters.
post #23410 of 24873

AppleMark


Stretford End 1971

post #23411 of 24873
Wow the old Stretford end ,the empty space where the cops are was open closed and open again for the next twenty years because of ahem cough, , high spirited youths throwing missiles at the goalie and police , the strange thing was the stretty had roughly one hundred and fifty seats at the back of it ,thanks for taking me back to seventeen again ,now where's me white butchers coat!
post #23412 of 24873

Another Forum with Originals Reminiscing..M.O.M.may find Names and Places to attach to Photos.  http://www.soul-source.co.uk/soulforum/topic/240448-early-skinheads-soul-rare-soul-68-72/

post #23413 of 24873
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmod View Post

Another Forum with Originals Reminiscing..M.O.M.may find Names and Places to attach to Photos.  http://www.soul-source.co.uk/soulforum/topic/240448-early-skinheads-soul-rare-soul-68-72/

Thanks - a few interesting observations there.
post #23414 of 24873
I just came across this pic on line, said to have been taken at a scooter rally in 2014. wink.gif

I know it's not as much fun as a pic from back in the day, but it's nice to see someone you know...

post #23415 of 24873

In the early to mid sixties, the mods had begun to appreciate soul music that was coming out of the Tamla Motown stable, as well as jazz, r'n'b and ska which was becoming more readily available by 1962 through the Island label and the Blue Beat label. Clubs such as The Ram Jam played soul and ska but there were few clubs frequented by mods that were specifically ska or sound system based. 1967 saw the arrival of the rock steady and the popularity of the rude boys. The mods that mingled with the black rude boys in the dance halls to listen to the soul music also had a taste for the ska and rock steady. They weren't fully aware of the growth of the sound systems which were mainly confined to the black areas.

'By the latter half of 1968 when 'Neville the Musical Enchanter' could claim to be the boss (Top) system, he was playing almost anywhere around London regardless of travelling distance. and his supporters grew in numbers and were most keen and awesome. Most areas he played were predominantly white and not surprisingly many whites came along to hear the sounds. The Ska Bar was a very dimly-lit stone-walled basement bar without much ventilation. or much space for the keen fans it attracted. When it opened in the beginning of 1968 It seemed that Neville's most ardent supporters numbered not more than 20, but as his popularity grew so quickly more and more blacks were attracted to the Ska Bar. Neville's followers soon grew in confidence even on this foreign 'white soil'. The black lifestyle soon became apparent. It Included smoking spliff or weed, drinking barley wine, dancing In a totally ethnic manner- a sensuous sexual movement which became more obvious when dancing with a chick. It included wearing trousers too short, sometimes with boots- either for fighting or for making the effect of boots against trousers which was more striking and it Included hair cut very short, so short that the skull was evident and a comb was not needed. This haircut was known as a 'skiffle'.


Reggae Soul of Jamaica, Carl Gayle, Story of Pop,1973

This style that emerged was what the 'Hard mods' began to copy. The style became known by many names so for the sake of clarity they shall be referred to as 'Peanuts'. The peanuts were the predecessors of the skinheads. As the mod scene began to fragment the 'Hard mods' as they are often called, standardised their image and began to copy many elements of the style of the blacks. The style that evolved was often termed 'The peanut' because of the sound of their motor scooters which was like 'Peanuts rattling in a tin'. Other names were coined such as The Spy Kids, The Lemons, The No-heads, Spikeys and Brushcuts. This is one peanut's side of the story:

'We'd just been through the mod era, which we'd all appreciated. I mean we sat around with our scooters In the early days. We an went down to Brighton and Southend, Bank Holiday and we all had a fight with the greasers like the mods did. But then we went to the extreme, I mean we took our hair right down to the limit, you know half-inch or whatever. I had it done at a barbers called Grey's down the East India Dock Road. It wasn't much of an haircut, he just gets those old trimmers out and goes zing, zing, zing and that's it your hair's gone'

(You'll Never Be 16 Again, BBC books)

The style began to diversify and move out of the dance hall and on to the streets. It soon become a trademark of the terraces as football hooliganism became a widespread problem. Arsenal's 'North Bank' was one of the first mobs to become overtly skinhead/peanut but it wasn't long before it was the norm at nearly every London ground. In 1968 the peanuts gate crashed a hippy gathering in Grosvenor square. The hippies were chanting 'Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh' and the peanuts were shouting 'Students, Students, ha ha ha'. Nobody knew them as skinheads but they hadn't gone unnoticed. The month before they had invaded Margate for a weekend of mayhem. Originally, the peanuts didn't seem to be for anything but they were very clear what they were against- 'Long hair, pop, hippy sit-ins, live-ins and the long haired cult of non-violence' was how one sixteen year old peanut put it to the Daily Mail. The skinheads despised the hippies as they were seen to be drop-outs while the skinheads were very much working class and could not afford the privilege of 'taking time out'. They'd gone straight from school to work and this seemed to be a big sticking point. The rude boys not averse to a spot of 'bovver' and they too were opposed to a lot of the hippy ideals.

In late 1968 the term skinhead was becoming used more often to describe what was previously the peanut. The style was basically the same but was becoming more elaborate. The music was becoming a more prominent feature, reggae was the order of the day. Access to the music was a lot easier than it had been five years before. In 1963 there were only three sound systems working the London area but by 1967 there were at least three reputable sound systems in every area where blacks resided. The following passage tells of the early days of the skinheads.

'White kids had been associating with blacks in clubs like the Ram Jam since black music first became popular In England, but It wasn't until 1967 that the whites had begun to appreciate the reggae music and to mimic the black lifestyle. They fell in love with the first wave of of reggae music that Pama records issued like the instrumentals - 'Spoogy', 'Reggae on Broadway' and '1000 tons of Megaton' by Lester Sterling. They stomped to the frantic dance records like 'Work it' by the Viceroys and 'Children Get Ready' by the Versatiles. They sang along to Pat Kelly's 'How Long will it Take' and Slim Smith's 'Everybody Needs Loves' and laughed at rude items like Max Romeo's 'Wet Dream' or Lloyd Tyrell's 'Bang Bang Lulu'.

Pretty soon you couldn't go to a black house party without finding a gang of skinheads but amazingly there was very little black/white violence and hardly any resentment. Black and white youth have never been as close as they were in the skinhead era despite the 'mixing' in the trendier soul scenes nowadays The skinheads copied the way we dressed, spoke, walked, the way we danced. They danced with our chicks, smoked our spliff and ate our food and bought our records '

Reggae Underground, Carl Gayle, Black Music magazine 1974)

The early skinheads prided themselves on their knowledge of the latest sounds that were being released. A skinhead who had the white label pre-release records was the skinhead that knew his music. The slang used in the songs also appealed to the skins. By using Jamaican slang words a mod peanut or skinhead could exclude any outsider from their conversation. According to Dick Hebdige the phrase 'Ya Raas' was picked up by every self-respecting skinhead. The skinheads dress manner became more meticulous by the minute. During the day they might be seen in boots and jeans but by night they wore suits to the dance halls. Places such as the Top Rank network played regular reggae and soul nights and the dress restrictions meant that you either had to look smart or miss out. The early skinhead was much more boots and braces orientated, the shoes and trousers look superseded this with the need to look smarter.

The emergence of the skinhead phenomena did not have a great effect on the evolution of the Rude Boy and not to the extent of losing their identity amongst the skinhead culture. It was a good time for reggae music because the skinhead purchasing power at its peak increased sales of reggae enough to get it into the charts and the music became much more widely available. The Rude Boy culture greeted the skinhead culture with more friendliness than would be granted had the roles had been reversed. The last main migration from Jamaica to Britain was in 1962 and many resident Jamaicans brought their wives and children here during that period. This would probably have made the kids of '67 the first large group of West Indian youths in British cities - large enough to make an impression on youth culture. As a relatively new group they still had to fit in somehow and the skinhead culture gave them every opportunity to spread their wings across the city. They were present in numbers in skinhead gangs but wether they were necessarily skinhead, rude boys or afro boys is difficult to say but given the nature of youth culture then - even people who considered themselves skinheads used the term very loosely. It was not down to the crop but was used as a catch-all term for anyone who associated themselves with the skinheads.




und bei Dick Hebdidge:



The skinheads were very territorial and the existence of blacks in skinhead gangs would have varied from area to area. The total percentage of Afro-Caribbeans in the UK is around the 10% mark so the numbers could on average have been 1 in 10 but the geography of the working class areas would have meant some areas with a very high percentage of West Indians and there were some totally black skinhead gangs in London. The country as a whole however, with its uneven distribution of immigrants was not as familiar with this phenomena as London.

Different groups with different grievances led to the press sensationalising reports of grease-bashing, squaddie-bashing, queer-bashing, hippy-bashing and student bashing. Paki-bashing was also a very common pastime. The main influx of Asian immigrants came to Britain around the late 60s and some areas felt particularly threatened by their new neighbours. The blacks and whites in the skinhead gangs pointed their sights at this new type of immigrant. This victimisation coincided with the Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of blood' speech and the white hysteria he stirred up. Powell was against the mass influx of Asians to Britain and called for repatriation of all immigrants. By sympathising with him the skinheads were alienating themselves from their West Indian brothers. It was only a matter of time before the time bomb exploded.

The phenomena of paki-bashing by both white skinheads and blacks alike is explained as 'A displacement manoeuvre whereby the fear and anxiety produced by limited identification with one black group is transformed into aggression against another'


( P 58. Subculture-The Meaning of Style, Dick Hebdige. Methuen 1979)

http://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewtopic.php?id=737&p=7



Zu "hard mods" hier bei mg:



The way I remember it was that towards the end of 1965 Mods started to factionalise - our crew in Romford split 2/3 distinct groups - old school Mods at that time high fashion was all things american - some fairly out there blokes that were wearing eye shadow (not poofy - fairly scary black stuff) - and a third crowd who were into sharp suits with short length trousers just reaching the top of their doc martins. The old school guys and the suited blokes guys both had cropped haircuts whilst the out there blokes had boufant style haircuts that were shaved back from their foreheads.

The latter two crews were both hard, but we were all still Mods and I never heard the term 'Hard Mods' used at all.

From a German Site.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Streetwear and Denim
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead