or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mod to Suedehead - Page 1553

post #23281 of 24876

I posted this a while back as confirmation of the date.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

1969 skinheads in coventry shopping precinct 1969

 

(Taken from Friends Reunited /Music/my Tribes/ Mod to Suedehead)  "Jimmy Beacroft, Pop Robson, Johnny Williams, Alan Kingdom and Sammy Pratt to name just a few...the Daily Mirror interviewed us as we had all just had our heads shaved and were off to the Rock House (Locarno) as I remember....great days but oh what a long time ago...

 

These are the same lads as in the photos posted by EK77 previously (#7481 + #6823) with a little more info.

 

Grandad vest w/v-neck  lambswool just as I remember it.

post #23282 of 24876
Quote:

Yes.Obvious to me,part of the Coventry Crew.Nice Find.

post #23283 of 24876

 

The interesting thing to me about this photo is that many of them have shaved in partings and mostly in exactly the same place - probably done at the same barbers. Whilst lots had shaved in partings, my memory is that most didn't - yet another example of localised influences or maybe they were fashionable at a particular time?

 

The other thing to say is, taken in isolation, it is not too easy to see the link between this and some photos of mods taken some years earlier.  What needs to be recognised is the gradual progression, one item of clothing or footwear at a time, the hair gradually getting shorter so the look evolved from one to the other (and on again by 1971) 

 

I would like to think we were a bit smarter looking than these lads but I'm not sure that would have been the perception of the general public!


Edited by roytonboy - 4/12/16 at 12:22am
post #23284 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 


Looks very much like Armstrong next to Grissom. Not part of the same mission crew, but I'm sure all the NASA fellas hung out together as a crew.


I would agree that the NASA guys would hang out together , at least the ones that liked each other (there seemed to be some resentment towards Glen). However, the guy next to Grissom doesn't look anything like  Armstrong. .

 

I think they are all Mercury men in that car and I'm going to stick my neck out and say the guy next to Gus is Gordon Cooper. .

 

post #23285 of 24876
The fella on the far right of the photo appears to be wearing a braces over a turtle neck jumper. For a look noted for its rigidity I've never seen that before
post #23286 of 24876

Re the Brick Lane fish pic Club Row on sundays was notorious for selling of animals in tiny appalling cages during that period 

post #23287 of 24876

INFLUENCES

 

Due to several mentions of 'influences' of late, I have been given some thought to the subject.

 

Suppose I saw a nice shirt in a shop and bought it. The following week-end I decided to wear it to the annual Food & Drink Festival, which is a big social event in our town. Whilst I was there an acquaintance of mine commented on the shirt and asked where I got it. Maybe someone else I didn't know also thought it was a nice shirt, he would look out for one. The following week my acquaintance bought a shirt in the same style, a colleague of his was similarly impressed when he wore it on a works night out. Two months later an article in a magazine showed the polo playing fraternity  in Buenos Aires wearing this very same style of shirt. Were I, my acquaintance or his colleague influenced by the social elite of Buenos Aires? The irony is, of course that after that magazine article had appeared, people would probably say to me, "Oh, that's one of those Argentinian shirts!"

 

And so on to Mod/Skinhead/Suedehead:

 

Many of us, I would imagine, like to think we are pretty decently turned out, have a interest in clothes and  in a particular style or we wouldn't be on this forum.  Due to this interest we like to look into the topic in a little more depth, much as we would with our other interests - sport, music etc. I think as a consequence we (I include myself) maybe look for things and give them a little more importance than they had at the time. 

 

In the very early days of Mod, probably even before the term was in common use, when people maybe referred to themselves as Modernists (Gil Evans says that she and Del called themselves 'Continentalists') modern style was hard to come by, people had to search for ideas and  inspiration - French films, Italian styling, American jazz musicians all became 'influences' in the true sense of the word. As much as anything people were looking for something new and different, to stand out. As the 1960's progressed things changed. The Beatles, swinging England, Carnaby Street, the Who and the Small Faces. Fashion and the term 'Mod', in it's widest sense,  had become more mainstream and accessible. Now it was astute clothing retailers who were deciding what items to stock and  anyone could go into a boutique and be sold stuff. "How about this shirt, sir, considered very chic in Paris at the moment", "These trousers are very in with Milan's scooterati" "What about this striking jacket, it's Ivy League style, from America." Smart young gentleman would buy said item, wear it and his impressed mates would go and buy something similar.

 

There has been lots of mention of the influence, for example, of 'Ivy League' on the style from Mod right through to Suedehead. It is true that some of the clothes we wore were also worn at certain times at Ivy League colleges but was it really an influence? We had quite a lengthy discussion on this topic with interesting input from a number of members from page 1254 onwards so I'm not going to repeat all of that, only to say that most of us don't truly understand what Ivy League style is - most of what we think of as 'Ivy League' was mainstream American wear, I watched 'American Graffiti' on DVD last week.

 

 Check BD, ankle length Sta-prest, loafers

 

The BDs even have a button at the back of the collar.

 

It is NOT Ivy League, these are American middle class high school kids in California, set in 1962. Yet these are a close approximation to what we were to wear 8 years later.

 

In truth hardly any of us knew what Ivy League was at the time - we certainly didn't know what Ivy League 'style' was or what it represented. 

 

In 1968 and 1969 cord and Denim Wrangler jackets were very popular in many areas - these were 'western' in appearance and the name 'Wrangler' certainly has that connotation, quite deliberately , I would suggest, and when you add in the Levis (or Wrangler Jeans) it is quite a 'Western' look but has anyone ever heard that the late Mod or Skinhead look was influenced by cowboys? (Ed. Vaughan has posted that there was a clothes shop in Manchester called 'The Western' in the mid '60s) I don't recall this ever being said - in fact I remember my Mum, on see my mate and I leaving the house in our Denim Levi Jackets and Jeans, saying " You look like a couple of convicts!" Funnily enough, we didn't feel we were influenced by the penal system either! Could it be that cowboys and anything 'western' was not considered cool? (Country and Western music - eugh!) so we didn't want that association?

 

Recent mention of Apollo astronauts pricked my interest as I don't recall them ever being mentioned in terms of style at the time - in fact I do remember our maths teacher the morning after the first moon landings asking the class if anyone had stayed up into the early hours to watch it. When only two people put their hands up he went mad, going on about young people today, how this was a momentous day in human history etc.etc. we just shrugged our shoulders - it was not as important to us as our own interests. On looking for pictures on Google, I have to say that I can't imagine for one minute that in our mid-teens we regarded these blokes as stylish icons, to be honest we would have regarded them as old blokes, more like our parents and some of our teachers. Crew cuts were regarded as old fashioned and 'square' to use the terminology of the age. What has happened is that we now view some of those photos through different eyes, NOW we can see that for older men some of those astronauts have a bit of style (they were younger then than many of us are now) NOW we recognise that some of the clothes were similar to what we might have worn at various stages but THEN our point of view would have been quite different.

 

I think this is part of the issue, looking back we see things in a different light, can recognise certain traits that were not apparent to us in our youth. The rather boring truth remains that for 99% of skinheads (probably 99.9%) their 'influences' were simply what they saw on other skinheads, initially this evolved from other Mods, eventually it mutated into Suedehead. This is why there are so many little idiosyncrasies in time and place - people just responded to what they saw and heard in their own locality - at their local football stadium, youth club or dance hall/Soul club. They neither knew nor cared particularly where those clothes originated. Unlike 'Mod' a large part of 'Skinhead' was to fit in, not look different from your peers and it would have been only a very small number of style leaders who may have been looking for different ideas of what to wear.


Edited by roytonboy - 4/12/16 at 7:34am
post #23288 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny legs View Post

The fella on the far right of the photo appears to be wearing a braces over a turtle neck jumper. For a look noted for its rigidity I've never seen that before

 He also looks to be wearing flares. Perhaps he was a Mod who decided that morning to become a Skinhead, bought some braced and had his hair cut?

post #23289 of 24876
Hi I've been following this forum for a while now ,I think you Roytonboy have hit the nail on the head regarding Ivy League and astronauts influences as you said these were old men to us ,our style in north Manchester between 69 and 72 were completely different to this"influence ".
post #23290 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

INFLUENCES

Due to several mentions of 'influences' of late, I have been given some thought to the subject.

Suppose I saw a nice shirt in a shop and bought it. The following week-end I decided to wear it to the annual Food & Drink Festival, which is a big social event in our town. Whilst I was there an acquaintance of mine commented on the shirt and asked where I got it. Maybe someone else I didn't know also thought it was a nice shirt, he would look out for one. The following week my acquaintance bought a shirt in the same style, a colleague of his was similarly impressed when he wore it on a works night out. Two months later an article in a magazine showed the polo playing fraternity  in Buenos Aires wearing this very same style of shirt. Were I, my acquaintance or his colleague influenced by the social elite of Buenos Aires? The irony is, of course that after that magazine article had appeared, people would probably say to me, "Oh, that's one of those Argentinian shirts!"

And so on to Mod/Skinhead/Suedehead:

Many of us, I would imagine, like to think we are pretty decently turned out, have a interest in clothes and  in a particular style or we wouldn't be on this forum.  Due to this interest we like to look into the topic in a little more depth, much as we would with our other interests - sport, music etc. I think as a consequence we (I include myself) maybe look for things and give them a little more importance than they had at the time. 

In the very early days of Mod, probably even before the term was in common use, when people maybe referred to themselves as Modernists (Gil Evans says that she and Del called themselves 'Continentalists') modern style was hard to come by, people had to search for ideas and  inspiration - French films, Italian styling, American jazz musicians all became 'influences' in the true sense of the word. As much as anything people were looking for something new and different, to stand out. As the 1960's progressed things changed. The Beatles, swinging England, Carnaby Street, the Who and the Small Faces. Fashion and the term 'Mod', in it's widest sense,  had become more mainstream and accessible. Now it was astute clothing retailers who were deciding what items to stock and  anyone could go into a boutique and be sold stuff. "How about this shirt, sir, considered very chic in Paris at the moment", "These trousers are very in with Milan's scooterati" "What about this striking jacket, it's Ivy League style, from America." Smart young gentleman would buy said item, wear it and his impressed mates would go and buy something similar.

There has been lots of mention of the influence, for example, of 'Ivy League' on the style from Mod right through to Suedehead. It is true that some of the clothes we wore were also worn at certain times at Ivy League colleges but was it really an influence? We had quite a lengthy discussion on this topic with interesting input from a number of members from page 1254 onwards so I'm not going to repeat all of that, only to say that most of us don't truly understand what Ivy League style is - most of what we think of as 'Ivy League' was mainstream American wear, I watched 'American Graffiti' on DVD last week.



 Check BD, ankle length Sta-prest, loafers



The BDs even have a button at the back of the collar.

It is NOT Ivy League, these are American middle class high school kids in California, set in 1962. Yet these are a close approximation to what we were to wear 8 years later.

In truth hardly any of us knew what Ivy League was at the time - we certainly didn't know what Ivy League 'style' was or what it represented. 

In 1968 and 1969 cord and Denim Wrangler jackets were very popular in many areas - these were 'western' in appearance and the name 'Wrangler' certainly has that connotation, quite deliberately , I would suggest, and when you add in the Levis (or Wrangler Jeans) it is quite a 'Western' look but has anyone ever heard that the late Mod or Skinhead look was influenced by cowboys? (Ed. Vaughan has posted that there was a clothes shop in Manchester called 'The Western' in the mid '60s) I don't recall this ever being said - in fact I remember my Mum, on see my mate and I leaving the house in our Denim Levi Jackets and Jeans, saying " You look like a couple of convicts!" Funnily enough, we didn't feel we were influenced by the penal system either! Could it be that cowboys and anything 'western' was not considered cool? (Country and Western music - eugh!) so we didn't want that association?

Recent mention of Apollo astronauts pricked my interest as I don't recall them ever being mentioned in terms of style at the time - in fact I do remember our maths teacher the morning after the first moon landings asking the class if anyone had stayed up into the early hours to watch it. When only two people put their hands up he went mad, going on about young people today, how this was a momentous day in human history etc.etc. we just shrugged our shoulders - it was not as important to us as our own interests. On looking for pictures on Google, I have to say that I can't imagine for one minute that in our mid-teens we regarded these blokes as stylish icons, to be honest we would have regarded them as old blokes, more like our parents and some of our teachers. Crew cuts were regarded as old fashioned and 'square' to use the terminology of the age. What has happened is that we now view some of those photos through different eyes, NOW we can see that for older men some of those astronauts have a bit of style (they were younger then than many of us are now) NOW we recognise that some of the clothes were similar to what we might have worn at various stages but THEN our point of view would have been quite different.

I think this is part of the issue, looking back we see things in a different light, can recognise certain traits that were not apparent to us in our youth. The rather boring truth remains that for 99% of skinheads (probably 99.9%) their 'influences' were simply what they saw on other skinheads, initially this evolved from other Mods, eventually it mutated into Suedehead. This is why there are so many little idiosyncrasies in time and place - people just responded to what they saw and heard in their own locality - at their local football stadium, youth club or dance hall/Soul club. They neither knew or cared particularly where those clothes originated. Unlike 'Mod' a large part of 'Skinhead' was to fit in, not look different from your peers and it would have been only a very small number of style leaders who may have been looking for different ideas of what to wear.

Word!
post #23291 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post

Re the Brick Lane fish pic Club Row on sundays was notorious for selling of animals in tiny appalling cages during that period 
[/Re Brick Lane and the pet market on Club Row,there was a 1955 film called a Kid For Two Farthings which was shot around there in the mid 50s, which includes some great old East End street scenes. Does anyone remember the name of the Big Red Building on Petticoat Lane, as it was advertised? Was a popular spot to pick up Levi's and Sheepskins in the late 70s

Edited by skinny legs - 4/12/16 at 6:42am
post #23292 of 24876

It is NOT Ivy League, these are American middle class high school kids in California, set in 1962. Yet these are a close approximation to what we were to wear 8 years later.

 

In truth hardly any of us knew what Ivy League was at the time - we certainly didn't know what Ivy League 'style' was or what it represented.                                                                                      Nice One Roytonboy. Ivy League "Style" wasn't widely available in the USA until Pendleton in 1957.

post #23293 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton heath View Post

Hi I've been following this forum for a while now ,I think you Roytonboy have hit the nail on the head regarding Ivy League and astronauts influences as you said these were old men to us ,our style in north Manchester between 69 and 72 were completely different to this"influence ".

The point with influences is most young kids in Manchester didnt know the 'Royals ' craze originated in a shop in Richmond 200 miles away that was set up to sell Ivy clothes to london executives not cockney herberts . Kids see someone else at school or down the shops in clobber and decide they want to look like them but the Button down collar shirt is Ivy , Sta prest are Ivy the Harrington is Ivy ..   by the time a 'look ' spreads out from a original core group and core shops into high st's and market snides the original source is lost and of no interest to these kids but the facts remain .


Edited by flyfronted - 4/12/16 at 1:24pm
post #23294 of 24876
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
 


I would agree that the NASA guys would hang out together , at least the ones that liked each other (there seemed to be some resentment towards Glen). However, the guy next to Grissom doesn't look anything like  Armstrong. .

 

I think they are all Mercury men in that car and I'm going to stick my neck out and say the guy next to Gus is Gordon Cooper. .

 

Gordon Cooper, driving.

Elliot See,  shotgun

Gus Grissom, back driver's side

Neil Armstrong, back passenger side

Armstrong and family 1963

post #23295 of 24876

John still bringing home the gear 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Streetwear and Denim
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead