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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1549

post #23221 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post
 


The essays of our 'Dutch correspondent' Alex (the other one is The French Cut also on FNB) are very helpful when it comes to understanding how things moved on after 1970.  I was honoured to be able to help where I could, but his objective take on things, coming from a different background, helped me to better understand some of the links.  Of course the essays stick  closely to the theme of the 'unbroken circle' of style at the heart of 'Soul Stylists'.

 

http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-french-cut

 

It is interesting as @skinny legs pointed out that there was a kind of London desert when it came to music in the early 70s.  I met a couple from the NW when on holiday in Plymouth in 1973 and couldn't believe how far apart we were - they and their friends had remained soul stylists when I had embraced T Rex, Roxy Music and so on...And that despite the fact that I was a regular visitor to The Lacy Lady and such establishments.

It seems to me ( i was to young to attend 'clubs ' ) that while the North stayed playing Soul - London (with its much larger JA communities ) went head over heels into Reggae - The Skins at the Tottenham Royal had replaced the Mods with their soul and R n B .. the youth club discos i attended played everything from 60s Reggae / ska to james brown and tamala and the commercial end of Northern .. by 73 / 74 the Funk thing had caught everyones attention and a new scene built up around that generation.

post #23222 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post
(...)
Also a few pages back someone said Skinheads didn't have tattoos, but I'm sure I have seen some photos of that period where they did, 2 Spring to mind.
One of a fella with his girlfriend in black and white and standing in front of what likes like some kind of municipal building,
And another of 2 blokes one a Skinhead and his mate who has got glasses on, at Butlins or somewhere and again in black and white.
You may well ask why I have brought this up,
The reason being, like the facial tattoos they were probably few and far between and therefore, you wouldn't say all original Skinheads were scruffy, tattooed Herbert's, but it seems to be ok to discribe all of my generation as being such.
We weren't all like that (...)

Yes we had the pictures you talk about, and there are others.

This one for example, i posted a long time ago. The hairs are a longer so 'suedehead' time i suppose.

post #23223 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post
 

Of course BUT the clobber that remains iconic , smart and still wearable in 2016 would be the Ivy inspired stuff not the stuff stole off the Dockers . You could look the part in a Baracuta , Levi vintage , brogues and a nice oxford bowling about in the spring weather today . 

 

To be fair that ive been dressing similar to that lately, green jump the gun Harrington, black sleeveless v neck pullover, selvedge levi vintage 501s, not shoes tho, i wear 6 eye brown solovairs with a white trim like they were back then.

post #23224 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Jacket View Post
 

 

To be fair that ive been dressing similar to that lately, green jump the gun Harrington, black sleeveless v neck pullover, selvedge levi vintage 501s, not shoes tho, i wear 6 eye brown solovairs with a white trim like they were back then.

Classic look mate . 

post #23225 of 25683
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post

 

 The hairs are a longer so 'suedehead' time i suppose.

 

 

I would think that this would be much earlier Clouseau,pre skinhead,'68 maybe ?

post #23226 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

 

I would think that this would be much earlier Clouseau,pre skinhead,'68 maybe ?

in 1969 i went to school on the white city estate in west london  - loads of the older boys would wear 'royals ' and charcoal levi sta prest ( from a store in east acton - they fitted into the strict school uniform ) but it wasnt until the spring of 1969 that the first 2 lads got crops - caused a storm in the playground - helped no doubt that one had blonde hair the one a ginger . Ive seen a pic of my cousin Les at Butlins in 68 in levis brougue's button downs etc but with a college boy ( Ivy ) haircut .. so if the clothes came first when was the first time the crops hit the streets ? 

post #23227 of 25683

There's some photos on here of a group of Coventry lads from Oct 1969 that one of them had said they had just come from the barbers after getting cropped.The clothes were very similar except with more boots in evidence.As I recollect,a lot of lads never had a crop at all,and some only did it once.I never saw Royals being worn before boots.They came later in my neck of the woods,lagging behind London I suppose.The way the jeans and shoes  worn in this photo makes me think it's from the earlier period.

post #23228 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

 

I would think that this would be much earlier Clouseau,pre skinhead,'68 maybe ?

 

Yes, I would agree.

 

This picture confirms a fact we should all recognise - there are no absolutes. I would have said at that time that tattoos were very rare among the Mod (and skinhead) community, but there they are.  Not all Mods were sharp dressers, not all Skinheads were barking football hooligans. I learned very quickly to avoid the words, 'always', 'never', 'everybody' and 'nobody' on this site as someone will always provide the evidence to prove you wrong!

post #23229 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post
 

in 1969 i went to school on the white city estate in west london  - loads of the older boys would wear 'royals ' and charcoal levi sta prest ( from a store in east acton - they fitted into the strict school uniform ) but it wasnt until the spring of 1969 that the first 2 lads got crops - caused a storm in the playground - helped no doubt that one had blonde hair the one a ginger . Ive seen a pic of my cousin Les at Butlins in 68 in levis brougue's button downs etc but with a college boy ( Ivy ) haircut .. so if the clothes came first when was the first time the crops hit the streets ? 

 

flyfronted - think that's an impossible question to answer as with most things connected with the style in question, it was a gradual process. A quick perusal of the Mod photos below already show hairstyles which are fore- runners of the Skinhead cut.


Edited by roytonboy - 4/4/16 at 12:02pm
post #23230 of 25683
Quote:

Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

I would estimate these photos to have been taken in 1964 or 1965

 

 

Two lads below (far left)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                    

                                                  Lad sat on scooter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                          On the way                     Further on the way!

 

 

The basic style is there, the cuts would just get progressively shorter until 1969/70 depending on locality. (I don't want to go on about the Richard Barnes book, from which these are taken, but there are some examples in there that you would describe as Skinhead if you were told they were taken in 1969. - they are in the minority amongst the Mods, but present none-the-less.)

 

 

 

The progression continues in the posts below.......

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by roytonboy - 4/4/16 at 12:01pm
post #23231 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

 

Would the lad in the centre right have considered himself a mod or a skinhead? Note: he's not the only one wearing boots and turned up Levi given... . 

 

Thanks con man  - the 'Skinhead' book does indeed say 'Early skin - April 1967' but had anyone ever heard that name then?

 

 

 

and finally how I remember us looking in 1969.... (apologies for the poor quality) Note: Not a check in sight!

 

 

 

So not big steps but a gradual progression from 'Mod' to 'Skinhead'  - how much different are these lads hairstyles to some of the Mods outside the Twisted Wheel, 1967? Same basic style, just a tad shorter again than most in 1967.


Edited by roytonboy - 4/4/16 at 12:04pm
post #23232 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

Here is a fantastic photo from 1967 of Mods at The Twisted Wheel.

 

AppleMark

 

So the evidence (and my memory) would suggest that people didn't suddenly start having crops - they were certainly about in 1967. They did get shorter by 1969 and suddenly there were a lot more of them about but that was a culmination of a style that had been about for about 5 years. Although the style had certainly been in evidence there for a couple of years, I would say there was a noticeable increase at Manchester City at the start of the 1969/70 season.


Edited by roytonboy - 4/4/16 at 12:36pm
post #23233 of 25683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

 

I do get your point Royton that the term "Mod" had become a catchall phrase for a stylish generation,but like a political speech,it should be interpreted and taken in context.I recall my Dad saying things like "That Dolly Bird in her Mod gear" and me wanting to cringe,thinking he just didn't have a clue?Anything since a de-mob suit became Mod.Equally Kids who were clueless could use the term.So it was the teens who were within the scene to determine what was Mod at any given time, uphold (and decide) the latent rules that set them apart from everyone else.Just as the term Skinhead to you and I,paints a completely different vision than say the Bonehead Neo Nazi that is accepted worldwide by most people as being the image identifying that look.

Depending where and when you became conscious of the look would determine your own take on it I suppose? For me it was middle England 68/69,and the Manchester lads photo personifies what I personally accept and embraced as Mod.It's influence has stayed with me for life.Is that a lifestyle? I'm not sure? It is an understanding of Style.I suppose Hells Angels/Gypsies provide a true (alternative) lifestyle.Skinhead i'm not so sure?At 13 I was interested in the look and the music.Carving out something that would stay with me for life never entered my mind,but here we are almost 50 years later discussing it !

Great thought provoking posts from you as usual Roytonboy……Cheers.

 Yes, I'm in agreement Gsvs5. At the time it felt like a lifestyle but I was disappointed to find how many others quickly moved on. I retain many of my values, likes and dislikes from that era but it never was meant to be preserved in aspic. Thanks for the kind words - much appreciated!

post #23234 of 25683

Thinking about Flyfronted's question again and the Royals/Shaved crop question? I recall it was you who also said you had your short crop in Oct '69 just as the Coventry lads had done.That would be around six months after Flyfronted  White City school mates had it done.

Regarding shoes….Preceeding any kind of Boots,the last shoes I recall were as I have discussed some time ago,RAF Surplus Parade Dress shoes from the Army and Navy.Known to us as "RAF Comos" to us.They were the first shoes with a substantial leather sole and took over from the sleeker "European Mod" styles that Ravel offered at the time and had been favored up to that point.

I have since learned that there were actual shoes branded and sold as COMO's ,popular in the North West,but we were oblivious to that at the time.Boots quickly followed and then Royals etc.after that,not before .

So I guess the timeline was different in London for that,possibly due to The Ivy having imports before Timpson put out theirs? 

post #23235 of 25683
Speaking of our parents and their generally catch all interpretation of Mod clothing, my old mans reaction to a three quarter length, narrow lapelled wool/ cashmere overcoat he saw me in recently was- very moderne- as he put it, with an ironic grin. Incidentally, he's pushing 80 now, so was too old to have been a Mod, but was a purveyor of the Italian look which preceded Mod, as pioneered by Cecil Gee.
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