or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mod to Suedehead - Page 1547

post #23191 of 24880
I was too young to be skinhead in 69, or suedehead in 71, or even bootboy in 74 and soulboy is something I never heard of until the early 80s. I'm not saying it didn't exist but if it did it was fairly minor and lost in the background, a ripple not a current like mod to suedehead. What I most recall from the time around 75/76 is a sort of stagnant nothingness soon to be filled by punk.
Edited by covskin - 4/1/16 at 1:21am
post #23192 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post

Nobody doubts, that Skinhead is the descendant of Mod,
And you can see a gradual evolution between the two,
But my point is the very early Mods were a completley different animal in the early 60''s to a Skinhead in 1970 and even if a lot of Skinheads called themselves Mods, I just wonder if the original Mods would have called those Skinheads "Mods"
 
 

It's a fair point you make, con man but I would guess that the 'original' Mods i.e. those stylists of the very late fifties and early sixties would probably not have related much to the kind of 'Mods' portrayed in the Richard Barnes book - in fact I wouldn't mind betting that those originals didn't even call themselves Mods. I'm sure lots of them very quickly distanced themselves from the whole thing once the seaside disturbances began. However, it is those scooter riding, parka wearing youths with short, styled hair who most people refer to as 'Mods' and it is from these that the lineage to skinhead and suedehead stems.

 

For anyone who is interested in the development of the Mod style, I would recommend 'Mods - The New Religion'. It describes how the earliest Mods were quite a disparate group, wearing different styles with different influences in various parts of London (It's very Londoncentric). I found it quite an eye opener and dispelled some misconceptions I held - for instance there is no one Mod style - one, two, three and even four button jackets were worn at different times in different places - all styles changed - footwear, trousers, jackets, coats and hair - no doubt each 'generation' of Mods looked down on the ones that came after, each generation thought they were a development on what had gone before! - I think it's part of the human condition (it's certainly part of the British psyche!) to think things aren't as good now as they used to be. (I would add, however, that if your interest is purely in 'Skinhead', you won't get a great deal from that particular book.)

 

I think for many of us, our vision of what 'Mod'  is was influenced by the late 70's Mod revival - Quadrophenia, 2Tone, The Jam etc. etc.and is subsequently quite narrow, whereas during the original  7 or 8 years of it's life it covered a myriad of styles and influences - some of those evolved into skinhead.

 

Due to my age I can't comment much on youth styles post 1973. I do remember the Mod revival in 79/80 and could relate to some of the young lads I got to know through work - they were very like we had been 10 years earlier and it was always a puzzle to me to learn that there had been trouble between Mods and Skinheads.


Edited by roytonboy - 4/1/16 at 12:58am
post #23193 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post

I was too young to be skinhead in 69, or suedehead in 71, or even bootboy in 74 and soulboy is something I never heard of until the early 80s. I'm not saying it didn't exist but if it did it was fairly minor and lost in the background, a ripple not a current like mod to suedehead. What I most recall from the time around 75/76 is a sort of stagnant nothingness soon to be filled by punk.

Not in London mate 1975 - 76 was a golden period . Amazing clubs a new generation claiming Funk and Soul as 'our ' Music as opposed to Reggae which had been your older brothers / cousins music . Great clobber as well - US vintage bowling shirts , American imported 'smith's ' Carpenter jeans , plastic sandals and wedge haircuts . You can always tell if a 'Thing ' is big by wether Wembley market / Petticoat lane ' did cheap snides and by early 76 both markets were selling this gear to the younger school kids ( same as they did shit crombies / harringtons etc in 70 ) . The fact that 'PUNK ' itself grew out of the London Soul Scene is a much overlooked fact .

post #23194 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

It's a fair point you make, con man but I would guess that the 'original' Mods i.e. those stylists of the very late fifties and early sixties would probably not have related much to the kind of 'Mods' portrayed in the Richard Barnes book - in fact I wouldn't mind betting that those originals didn't even call themselves Mods. I'm sure lots of them very quickly distanced themselves from the whole thing once the seaside disturbances began. However, it is those scooter riding, parka wearing youths with short, styled hair who most people refer to as 'Mods' and it is from these that the lineage to skinhead and suedehead stems.

 

For anyone who is interested in the development of the Mod style, I would recommend 'Mods - The New Religion'. It describes how the earliest Mods were quite a disparate group, wearing different styles with different influences in various parts of London (It's very Londoncentric). I found it quite an eye opener and dispelled some misconceptions I held - for instance there is no one Mod style - one, two, three and even four button jackets were worn at different times in different places - all styles changed - footwear, trousers, jackets, coats and hair - no doubt each 'generation' of Mods looked down on the ones that came after, each generation thought they were a development on what had gone before! - I think it's part of the human condition (it's certainly part of the British psyche!) to think things aren't as good now as they used to be. (I would add, however, that if your interest is purely in 'Skinhead', you won't get a great deal from that particular book.)

 

I think for many of us, our vision of what 'Mod'  is was influenced by the late 70's Mod revival - Quadrophenia, 2Tone, The Jam etc. etc.and is subsequently quite narrow, whereas during the original  7 or 8 years of it's life it covered a myriad of styles and influences - some of those evolved into skinhead.

 

Due to my age I can't comment much on youth styles post 1973. I do remember the Mod revival in 79/80 and could relate to some of the young lads I got to know through work - they were very like we had been 10 years earlier and it was always a puzzle to me to learn that there had been trouble between Mods and Skinheads.

My point is its not important that a 14 year old in 1969 didnt know that Fred perry's and  sta prest cut trousers had come from Mod which in turn came from iVY .  Every 14 year old thinks hes invented the wheel .


Edited by flyfronted - 4/1/16 at 5:18am
post #23195 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post

Those kids who were to young to be original Skinheads became Soul boys ?

This sounds to me like a crock of crap,
Surely those kids who by 77/79, who wanted to be a Skinhead, would have become a Skinhead, there were Skinheads who were into
Punk/ Sham 69 etc and there was the Mod revival at that time, I 'm sure some of them would have had the look of a Skinhead and
and then there was obviously 2tone.
Some of the 2tone bands members had been original Skinheads.

Seems to me, you were never a Mod, Skinhead, Suedehead, Boot Boy, Revival Mod, Second, third, fourth or how many other supposed
Waves of Skinhead there have been.

So that begs the question .........


What the hell are you doing on here haha!!!

Is it, just to take the piss out of second wave Skinheads, just because you didn't have the bottle to become one.?

Just saying!

I was 10 in 1968 . The next 2 years i wore ( 1 Jaytex shirt , Olive Green Market sta prest , second hand royal smooths , Astronauts - then at 14 had a paper round and got Toppers , Ruperts which led into London terrace inspired wear such as Oxford bags - in 1974 there were no skinheads left everyone who was smart were going out dancing by 75 everyone was a soul boy wether they called themselves that or not ... all these looks were just natural progessions . The Skinheads in 77 were all scruffy school boy herberts i was 19 and dressing down south moulton st .What am i doing on here - i enjoy reading what the older originals have to say cos we admired those mid teen lads so much in 68-70 - i also believe its all the same thing . Working class lads apropriating clobber not made for them and making a unique look . 

Who made you the board police anyway ? Jus saying .

post #23196 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post
 

Not in London mate 1975 - 76 was a golden period . Amazing clubs a new generation claiming Funk and Soul as 'our ' Music as opposed to Reggae which had been your older brothers / cousins music . Great clobber as well - US vintage bowling shirts , American imported 'smith's ' Carpenter jeans , plastic sandals and wedge haircuts . You can always tell if a 'Thing ' is big by wether Wembley market / Petticoat lane ' did cheap snides and by early 76 both markets were selling this gear to the younger school kids ( same as they did shit crombies / harringtons etc in 70 ) . The fact that 'PUNK ' itself grew out of the London Soul Scene is a much overlooked fact .

It was a golden period for clubs in London and the suburbs.  My mob in our early 20's who were skinheads in 1969 were also into the Funk and Soul being played. Some of the younger guys in our group had the bowling shirts and plastic sandals.

post #23197 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

It's a fair point you make, con man but I would guess that the 'original' Mods i.e. those stylists of the very late fifties and early sixties would probably not have related much to the kind of 'Mods' portrayed in the Richard Barnes book - in fact I wouldn't mind betting that those originals didn't even call themselves Mods. I'm sure lots of them very quickly distanced themselves from the whole thing once the seaside disturbances began. However, it is those scooter riding, parka wearing youths with short, styled hair who most people refer to as 'Mods' and it is from these that the lineage to skinhead and suedehead stems.

 

 

 

These are the types of Mods portrayed in the book 'Mods' that many people now think of when the term Mod is used. Am I right in thinking that it was photos like these that influenced the styling of 'Quadrophenia' and therefore the second generation of Mods?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not a great leap of faith from some of these images to skinhead (we even wore parkas in 1969) and suedehead.

 

 

Probably a long way from those original sharp suited stylists in modern jazz clubs and coffee bars of Soho in 1959 or 1961 but as has been stated often, styles constantly changed and evolved. Also, it was not uncommon for people to wear different things for the street (or match) than a night out.

 

 

There is a much wider portrayal of styles in the 'New Religion'  book.

 

 

 

 

 

Youth styles will take some influences from what has gone before and develop others - each 'generation' wants their own image. (also, easier to dress with a certain style if you are a middle class boy whose father owns a tailor's shop, than if you are an apprentice plumber!)


Edited by roytonboy - 4/1/16 at 6:55am
post #23198 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post
 

The Skinheads in 77 were all scruffy school boy herberts i was 19 and dressing down south moulton st 

Not again.......!! of course we all werent scruffy and the age was 16-19..........just as all skinheads in 69 werent smart or didnt include young kids young....or 'soulboys' in mid to late 70s were all so smart, I remember some the terrible outfits at the time in contrast to some of the nice clobber! The term soul boy is as difficult to classify, in my opinion, as is casual.....you could talk of the smaller clientele of the global village or crackers or the norfolk as against the much wider numbers of the local pub disco who considered themselves 'soulboys'. 

post #23199 of 24880

Early inspiration? (1964)

post #23200 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post

I was 10 in 1968 . The next 2 years i wore ( 1 Jaytex shirt , Olive Green Market sta prest , second hand royal smooths , Astronauts - then at 14 had a paper round and got Toppers , Ruperts which led into London terrace inspired wear such as Oxford bags - in 1974 there were no skinheads left everyone who was smart were going out dancing by 75 everyone was a soul boy wether they called themselves that or not ... all these looks were just natural progessions . The Skinheads in 77 were all scruffy school boy herberts i was 19 and dressing down south moulton st .What am i doing on here - i enjoy reading what the older originals have to say cos we admired those mid teen lads so much in 68-70 - i also believe its all the same thing . Working class lads apropriating clobber not made for them and making a unique look . 
Who made you the board police anyway ? Jus saying .


I'm not the board police, as I thought that was your job,
if you remember back a couple of pages back, you had a dig about second wave Skinheads with facial tattoos,
And that's your right, everyone is entitled to their opinion,
And their you go again ,"77 Skinheads were scruffy", If you look hard enough you will find photos of Skinheads from that period and later,
Who were as smart as fuck, likewise you will find some of originals who looked like shite.
So you reckon by the mid 70's everyone was a soul boy,
Well what about all the Northern Soulies, who in my opinion have more in common with Mod and Skinheads, The Twisted wheel and Golden Torch
Were Mod clubs.
And that started in The Midlands and the North West, not in London
Also what about Disco?.
Also I thought Casual ( not that I know anything or wish to know anything about it ) also started in the North West, mainly Liverpool.
As for Punk, I thought that started in the States, with bands like The Ramones.
Working class lads? Seems to me there were as many middle class Skinheads to, one or two are on here.
Have I read another comment where you mention wedge heads and plastic sandals?
Haha!!!!
I can really see the connection with Skinheads
I know it's April fools day today,
But.......
Hob Nail boots to Plastic sandals,
Please, be serious.
post #23201 of 24880
Whilst I accept the basic lineage from Mod to Soulboy- the common factor being an appreciation of black music- I don't get the musical hiatus between. 71 and 75 in Lonfon. If you love black music, why waste 4 years listening to Steve Harley, Hawkwind, and Christ knows what else. Up North the soul tradition survived and thrived, but I get the impression there weren't much of a scene iny native smoke till 75... It's not as if there wasn't decent uptempo stuff during that period - James Brown , Philly, Donald Byrd.
Ps talented man Donald Byrd . To be able to play the trumpet like that and make all that custard.
post #23202 of 24880

It seem to me that 10 year blocks of time are being lumped together here as a somewhat insignificant and short amount of time.When looking back at history of any period that you never lived through (1939-45 ! ) ,then I can understand that,but when you start thinking about what actually happened between 1959-69 and 1970-80  etc it throws a different perspective on things.I'm sure that early sixties Mods were fewer in numbers and less identifiable than they would be towards the end of the decade.I have mentioned before that I feel no connection to the Pucci/Brian Jones "Mod" of the early days,as I'm sure they would have felt little or none to the Eric Clapton/Manchester interpretation.However, everything being relevant and enjoying what was at any given time available to set you apart from all of your peers,they felt as radical in '68 as they did in '63 ?

Being a kid in the sixties,I have only memories of my elder sisters,photos etc to form my opinion about that time,but I think a hell of a lot went on (probably too subtle to have been recognized and recorded).I'm questioning if i agree with you Roytonboy about it being just fashion,just as being a Ted today would be un-fashionable or a fashion? Were Greasers/Hippies/Teds not considered followers of A fashion?

 

 (The term ' Mod' had by this stage come to be used for fashionable young people generally, not some style elite)

 

No ,I'm sure I disagree.At least where I'm from,a Mod had a particular look and stood outside.just as the Wheel photo shows

 

1970-1980 in my opinion was a more creative and diverse period for youth culture.Not necessarily appealing,but certainly offered more options as "Fashion" was available on every High St and Market stall.Maybe that's the reason for a more creative period?

Who wants to look exactly the same as everyone shopping at Next? Time to look back and plunder the back catalogue of the previous generation also if the Glam rockers didn't offer you what you felt comfortable with?I suppose it was toward the second half of the seventies that I heard the term "Soul Boys" bandied around,but it never resonated with me.I thought I hand left the boundaries of belonging to any particular group by '72.?Although admired,Browns was beyond my reach,but it opened the door to many to reach out to Continental Europe for influence again.Reiss filled the affordability gap and IMO kickstarted what I know as Casual today.(Though not as obvious and crass) The blatant success of Camden as a youth culture catalyst,a million miles away from Kensington speaks volumes and had the appeal for millions that Chapel St and Shoreditch had for me ten years prior .

I've probably over simplified by thought and memories,but a lot of shit happens in 10 years……..


Edited by Gsvs5 - 4/1/16 at 9:37am
post #23203 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMc666 View Post
 

Not again.......!! of course we all werent scruffy and the age was 16-19..........just as all skinheads in 69 werent smart or didnt include young kids young....or 'soulboys' in mid to late 70s were all so smart, I remember some the terrible outfits at the time in contrast to some of the nice clobber! The term soul boy is as difficult to classify, in my opinion, as is casual.....you could talk of the smaller clientele of the global village or crackers or the norfolk as against the much wider numbers of the local pub disco who considered themselves 'soulboys'. 

Yes im generalising Tom and im sure within your east end click you dressed well . You would agree though that in the traditional home of Skinhead ( the east end - suburban east london ) that in 75 - 79 the Soul lot were in the vast majority - Lacy lady ( ilford ) and Jaws in leytonstone was 2 spots we drove the long way east for . 

post #23204 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post


I'm not the board police, as I thought that was your job,
if you remember back a couple of pages back, you had a dig about second wave Skinheads with facial tattoos,
And that's your right, everyone is entitled to their opinion,
And their you go again ,"77 Skinheads were scruffy", If you look hard enough you will find photos of Skinheads from that period and later,
Who were as smart as fuck, likewise you will find some of originals who looked like shite.
So you reckon by the mid 70's everyone was a soul boy,
Well what about all the Northern Soulies, who in my opinion have more in common with Mod and Skinheads, The Twisted wheel and Golden Torch
Were Mod clubs.
And that started in The Midlands and the North West, not in London
Also what about Disco?.
Also I thought Casual ( not that I know anything or wish to know anything about it ) also started in the North West, mainly Liverpool.
As for Punk, I thought that started in the States, with bands like The Ramones.
Working class lads? Seems to me there were as many middle class Skinheads to, one or two are on here.
Have I read another comment where you mention wedge heads and plastic sandals?
Haha!!!!
I can really see the connection with Skinheads
I know it's April fools day today,
But.......
Hob Nail boots to Plastic sandals,
Please, be serious.

The fact that almost every kid who was a soul boy in 75 had been a skin / suedehead / bootboy  3 or 4 years earlier confirms link . All looks have branches the London Mod / All nighter scene influenced the Twisted wheel then that branched out to create the hideous Wigan and its pop music and laughable fashion .. if looks dont keep evolving and branching out we would all be wearing Brutus shirts and sta prest in 2016 

this feller saw the link as well http://filmnoirbuff.com/article/suedeheads


Edited by flyfronted - 4/1/16 at 10:35am
post #23205 of 24880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

.I'm questioning if i agree with you Roytonboy about it being just fashion,just as being a Ted today would be un-fashionable or a fashion? Were Greasers/Hippies/Teds not considered followers of A fashion?

 

 (The term ' Mod' had by this stage come to be used for fashionable young people generally, not some style elite)

 

No ,I'm sure I disagree.At least where I'm from,a Mod had a particular look and stood outside.just as the Wheel photo shows

 

 

   

 

Gsvs5 - As I have commented in a number of posts, at the time, I regarded being a skinhead as more than just a fashion, more of a lifestyle.

 

With regard to my comment regarding the term 'Mod' being widely used - I recall film clips and T.V. clips in the mid to late 60's about Carnaby Street, 'Swinging England'  etc. where all young people shown were described as 'Mods'. Similarly, I remember kids at school who wore a parka or maybe even a cord wrangler jacket or sporting a particular haircut considering themselves to be mods, even though they were only 13 years old at the time. Two years ago I asked my sister "Didn't you used to be a Mod?", "Oh, yes" she replied enthusiastically and then proceeded to tell me some of the clothes she'd coveted and had to save up for (some of which I didn't associate with Mod style). She never had a boyfriend with a scooter, she never went to the Twisted Wheel (though was certainly old enough to have done so and was into Soul and Motown) and on closer questioning some time later it emerged that what she meant was that she was interested in fashion and wearing fashionable clothes. What I was inferring by my comment was, by the mid to late 60's 'mod' had become a bit mainstream with high street shops selling high street fashion - in fact, most towns by this stage had 'boutiques' where fashion was more accessible. A far cry from the early 60's where choice was limited and many young men shopped at Burton's, C & A, or Marks & Spencer, just like their Dads and dressing with modern style took some effort. I posted that photo of outside the Twisted Wheel as I recognise those lads as sharply dressed Mods, but I think that many, many others, less well turned out would  have regarded themselves as mods also.

 

As with all youth cultures, some are the trendsetters, others also form the  elite who do it well, many others follow to varying degrees.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Streetwear and Denim
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Mod to Suedehead