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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1535

post #23011 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post
 

A question about a group of 'traditionalist' skins supposedly seen in London in 1977.

 

In his much maligned book, Nick Knight claims that during the punk vs ted battles in Kings Road, there were skinhead supporters on both sides. Those on the punk side are described as "a new breed" that "wished to be seen as more anarchical and more shocking than the punks" - the Sham Army types. 

 

On the ted side, there were supposedly traditionalists who were into the old reggae/soul sounds and not involved in any organised politics, but pissed off at the punks for their monarchy bashing.

 

I wonder who these traditionalists were and where they came from? Were they leftovers, i.e. a tiny few who had remained skins throughout the seventies? Or a new group that had begun its own skinhead revival separate from the punk-fueled one? What parts of town did they hail from?

 

Or is this just an urban myth spread by the likes of Nick Knight?

This cover shows the look of a typical saturday afternoon, meet in the Roebuck then down to Sloane Square and then back to the Worlds end.....

Theres a few there with what might be considered a skinhead haircut, in the context of long hair being the norm. I'm on there, the bloke sticking his tongue out covered most of my face but thats the jumper my mum knitted (!), to my right is the bloke that went around gigs organising everyone to go down there to take on the teds and 2 along from him is my mate John O'Connor, from Hoxton. To be honest, went there quite a lot over that  summer and became a skinhead as well but Nick Knight is talking bollocks, there wasnt anyone looking like the skinheads of a few hears earlier at the start of these fights, some had crops,and some looked similar in terms of jungle greens and boots but didnt class themselves as skinheads, it was punk vs ted. And on the other side, in the encounters I had, never saw anyone looking like a skinhead. But that was all to change a short while later with Sham. I remember the first proper group of skinheads in 77 was when I   walking down to Liverpool Street on a sunday morning and bumping into around 20 or so of the Becontree, all my age. Ended up having a drink with them, still,mates now with them

post #23012 of 24915

Cheers Tom, that's some great info. What about the Ladbroke Grove Skins - were they of a more traditional stripe? Apparently, that mob existed as early as 1976, which seems a bit early for 'punk skins'.

post #23013 of 24915

Hard to say, lots of stories of little groups or individuals being proper skinheads from early on. From my experience

 

TM - Terry Madden or TM OriginalSkin, was from Swiss Cottage and when I first met him, in late 76 already a skinhead, lot of his gear was hand me downs and probably a bit of a necessity 

 

Binnsy - 2 of these , the West Ham one who later became a mate , and the Arsenal Binnsy, Mickey Joyce, who was a coiple of years above me in school, now the Riders of the Night. Always looked the part even when later with a bit longer hair. Still see him now and then a nice bloke

 

The Becontree - Met these early on, most had been skinheads for a while and was still a left over from the first wave, fought the CAL. Became friends with most of , carried on through the mod revival - in which a lot of the revival skins went into - then the Rejects and still friends now.

 

And theres more such as Archie and others who I met back then, from all over London and the suburbs

 

As for the West London, the LGS did seem to be about for a long while and, like the majority of that initial second wave, wanted to get the look right. Knew a few of them and the most photographed was Dean, a Sham roadie, here on stage behind Pursey at Reading in 78, the youtube video shows him and a few of my west ham mates.

 

 

This issue of traditionalists is the problem, as at that time there was only the view that we were skinheads, pure and simple.Yes we liked Sham, but we also liked the older reggae reggae and the look was a key part of that revival, getting the right gear meant everything and you'd people changing  almost week by week as they might move from greens, boots and tshirts to ben shermans, staprest and loafers, and more. The more basic look coming back in, in my opinion, was due to a combination of an influx of younger, and more punk orientated groups, and possibly the politicalisation agenda , resulting in shorter/no hair and the very basic look adopted by some....also did they have the money or inclination to hunt around for the right gear, or know where to buy the better stuff ,or knew what the look actually entailed, especially as the media picked up on it? 


Edited by TomMc666 - 2/20/16 at 8:06am
post #23014 of 24915

https://northbank1969.wordpress.com/?s=heroes+and+villains

 

These( Heroes and Villains) Blog entries sum up the atmosphere that I always felt on numerous visits to Islington over the years.They connect many dots for me.From Chapel Market to Peter Story.A very good read...

post #23015 of 24915

 

These Hugo Boss "Aspin" are a very close interpretation of the Topper/Derber crepe soled wedges that were popular in the early 70's,in case anyone is interested in that look.

post #23016 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMc666 View Post
 

This cover shows the look of a typical saturday afternoon, meet in the Roebuck then down to Sloane Square and then back to the Worlds end.....

Theres a few there with what might be considered a skinhead haircut, in the context of long hair being the norm. I'm on there, the bloke sticking his tongue out covered most of my face but thats the jumper my mum knitted (!), to my right is the bloke that went around gigs organising everyone to go down there to take on the teds and 2 along from him is my mate John O'Connor, from Hoxton. To be honest, went there quite a lot over that  summer and became a skinhead as well but Nick Knight is talking bollocks, there wasnt anyone looking like the skinheads of a few hears earlier at the start of these fights, some had crops,and some looked similar in terms of jungle greens and boots but didnt class themselves as skinheads, it was punk vs ted. And on the other side, in the encounters I had, never saw anyone looking like a skinhead. But that was all to change a short while later with Sham. I remember the first proper group of skinheads in 77 was when I   walking down to Liverpool Street on a sunday morning and bumping into around 20 or so of the Becontree, all my age. Ended up having a drink with them, still,mates now with them

The Soul Boy haircuts of 76 were either a wedge ( bowie style ) or a number 4 crop . 99% of the kids who became Punks were ex soul boys .Hence the look .. 

post #23017 of 24915

Soul boys are such an underdocumented subculture. You hear and read about them, but if you weren't there you have no idea what they even looked like. 

 

So I watched this video... and found myself liking the long sleeve black polo shirt at 2:07. Is it Penguin?

 

 

post #23018 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post
 

Soul boys are such an underdocumented subculture. You hear and read about them, but if you weren't there you have no idea what they even looked like. 

 

So I watched this video... and found myself liking the long sleeve black polo shirt at 2:07. Is it Penguin?

 

 

 

I would say that both the polo shirts in that sequence are by the same manufacturer and  look like Penguin style but not able to distinguish the logo from image available . .

post #23019 of 24915
Penguin are a fairly recent thing in the UK I think (well done Louise!) so whenever I see 'darts player' type polo shirts I always think Gabicci. I especially think Gabicci when I see one of those patched cardigan things to the right. Mostly I think t*** of course! I think Soulboy is relatively underdocumented because the clothes were actually fairly mainstream, in an under the radar way perhaps but all in all fairly unremarkable.
Edited by covskin - 2/23/16 at 2:16am
post #23020 of 24915

Yes, mainstream would pretty much sum up that look for me. Apart from a couple of them that look like mods , they are mostly unremarkable too. .

 

 

 

 

 

 

. .and on the subject of unremarkable, the photie of Pursey above , reminded me what an unremarkable, irritating cu*t he was . .

post #23021 of 24915
Haha...I was never into Sham, too preachy plus it's the sort of formula punk where you expect to hear that 'handclap' sound effect every few seconds.
post #23022 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post
 

Soul boys are such an underdocumented subculture. You hear and read about them, but if you weren't there you have no idea what they even looked like. 

 

 

A very late 70s look to me. Close to skin (left), and to punk (right)

 

from : http://www.thebeatexcavation.com/article.php?s=slough-soul-boys

 

' This period coincided with punk and so fashionwise the two scenes collided with people travelling from Reading and West London in their bondage trousers to hear the cutting edge soul sounds played by Alan Sullivan at Skindles.'

post #23023 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post
 

Soul boys are such an underdocumented subculture. You hear and read about them, but if you weren't there you have no idea what they even looked like. 

 

Probably because everyone was trying to forge their own way after the uniform looks of previous years.Sadly IMO their were more bad than good. Jellies being the worst of the worst.There was still a division between North and South with the Northerners clinging to the  Northern Soul club style of dress while the rest of the country seemed inspired by Roxy/Bowie,rather than the street.Flyfronted has written previously about the Jamaican/American/Goodfellas  style that permeated the UK.All part of the stew.

This thread is beginning to loose direction I think? 

post #23024 of 24915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post

This thread is beginning to loose direction I think? 


Perhaps it should be renamed to "Mod To Suedehead... And Beyond"? It seems though, that the discussion is at least keeping within the continuum of what happened post-"suedehead". Maybe instead of a straight lineage, it became branches of a tree in the mid- to late 1970s. I mean, there's a lot of argument that the casuals in the '80s were descendants of the '60s mods and skinheads.
Same meat, different gravy, and all that.
post #23025 of 24915


Same Gravy,all part of the stew.I agree.I have no doubt that the Stone Island grandfathers who are still on the Terraces,are in many parts made up of  pre Thatcher generation Mods/Skinheads .I personally think that post '74 Youth style made a dramatic departure from the previous generation before calming down to an endured and recognizable Casual.I'm sure the Soul Boys think they deserve their own recognition (and Thread) as indeed do the Casuals.IMO suedehead ( a term I never really recognized) was a definitive cut off point.

Thinking of where some of the significant mid 70's styles originated brings to mind:

 

Jellies-Bowie

 

Cap Sleeve T's - Ferry (From his Greaser 'Jets' persona)

 

Hawaiian Shirt - Ferry ( Worn by Manolo Blahnik on the Album cover of Another TimeAnother Place I believe)

 

Beret - Eno/Cpt Sensible

 

P.S. MTV can never be underestimated…...

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