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post #22816 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Vision View Post

?!?

2c1d6b3c27f704e998af6bb836607525.jpg


Funny, but I was thinking about this subject only the other day. Decades on, and we're still moaning about how somebody else looks! biggrin.gif
post #22817 of 24859

Quote:   

 

 

This is from one of my very first posts (page 754) I have highlighted the bit relevant to skinhead girls. Yes, it was just a fashion, though at the time many of us regarded it as something more than that. The funny thing was, at the time, despite the variety of hairstyles, somehow you always knew which girls were skinheads and which weren't. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

When I Was 17, It Was A Very Good Year…..

 

But when I was 16 it was even better!

 

1969 –1971

 

Skinheads, Smoothies and Boot Boys. 

 

1969 and 1970 were the years of the skinhead. Lads and Lasses all over the country were drawn to this latest fashion. A development of the Mods ‘cult’, it quickly became associated with violence, particularly at football grounds, and this brought to it also types of  youth who would not have been Mods. Although the general public image of Boots ‘n’ Braces did exist, it was much, much more than that. Being a development of Mod it’s look evolved through the 3 years of it’s life and the attention to style and detail would have impressed any scooter riding youth from 5 years earlier. At the outset virtually any pair of boots would do, any colour, hobnails, army or pit boots, but steel toecaps were banned at football matches and so the now famous Dr Martens became the standard. It was actually not very common to see braces worn visibly after the initial rush to become a skinhead. This was because you soon got fed up of having them ‘twanged’ and also, well it didn’t really look too stylish did it? More commonly they were covered by a sleeveless jumper or Denim jacket. I have read acounts of the skinhead cult which make out it was some working class reaction to hippies, so traditional working class clothes were adopted, regardless of their lack of style. This certainly wasn’t the case in Royton as we were all conscious of looking smart, but regional variations did occur. For instance Reggae is normally accepted as THE skinhead music but locally Soul was No.1, with the Mod taste in rare, exclusive sounds of the mid 60s at the forefront. Shaw’s Motown Club was a regular haunt throughout the period playing exactly this sound (a forerunner of Northern Soul). Button down shirts, plain or pale candy striped were popular, ideally Ben Shermans, with Levis or Wranglers. The jeans were meant to be wide so often worn a size too big, hence the need for braces to get them to hang right (see, it did all make sense!). Also worn right through the skinhead era were white or light coloured ‘Sta-prest’ trousers and brogues.

The skinhead scene was a little late taking off in Royton. Whilst a few of us wore the style early on, it was normally individuals or small groups. The initials ‘HCHBB’ (High Crompton and Heyside Boot Boys) sprayed on walls in some parts of town appeared late 1969 or early 1970 but I never knew who they were. During the summer of 1970 a few of us used to get together in Tandlehill Park, of all places, to hang about, chase girls around the woods and this was probably one of the original starting points of the ‘Royton Skins’, as it involved people from different parts of Royton. By this time the fashion was checked shirts (Ben Shermans, Brutus or Jaytex), highly polished Doc Martens worn with denims and this became the look of the Royton Skins. From around this time until mid 1972 you could not pass ‘The Shed’ at Shaw Road End any night without seeing at least a few skinheads hanging around there and altogether, including lads and girls there were probably about 40 who counted themselves part of the ‘gang’. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hair  for lads was normally a ‘number 3’, sometimes, but  not often, shorter. In fact, as long hair was the norm in mainstream fashion,  it was not even necessary to have a ‘crop’ to be regarded as a skinhead, any shortish , tidy style that was short at the front was acceptible. The girls hair ranged from long (often tied in a bun, sometimes with a little at the sides left to hang  long in front of the ears) through collar length, combed or gripped back off the forehead as worn by Julie Hilton. The popular ‘skinhead’ style was however the feather cut, short on top and front, longer (‘feathered’) at the sides and back. The most extreme version of this style I ever saw was on a Royton girl, Carole Race, whose hair was feathered at the back and sides but on top was a number 2 or 3! . There used to be a photo on the wall of Royton Youth Club of the Morris Dancing Team, all the girls lined up in their outfits and pom poms, most sporting skinhead haircuts! Clothes were similar to the lads with lower ‘Monkey Boots’ instead of Doc. Martens. and tailored jackets , not denim. To go out the girls would wear either  a short skirt with light tights and jacket or a skirt suit, possibly in two tone material, with chunky brogue type shoes. The first girls I ever ‘got off’ with were all of this appearance (though how I ever managed this remains a mystery, being a mass of spots and clueless adolescence!) - most of them were really nice too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Royton Skin 1970 -1971

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the reason you could tell was there were certain items of clothing or style that were exclusively associated with skinheads. BD check shirts and turned up jeans would be examples - in fact in our area the only people to wear Wrangler jeans were skinhead types, as I recall. Thus, no matter what a girl's hairstyle, certain clothes would give her a 'skinhead' identity. Only ever heard the terms 'Skinhead girl' or 'Skinhead bird' at the time and none of these other so called titles - 'rennes', 'wrens', 'molls' or even 'sorts'. Again, the usual disclaimer re: time and place.

 

I have to agree with M-o-M about the fishnets - never seen in our area. In fact, to me, that black fishnet, white ankle socks look is more reminiscent of rockers/rock and roll era than skinheads, I can't imagine how that one has become accepted as 'skinhead style' as it is quite at odds with the original look. Each generation to their own, I suppose.


Edited by roytonboy - 2/1/16 at 1:09am
post #22818 of 24859

I never posted this one at the time as I didn't feel it was relevant to the forum, however recent post made me think it might be of interest. (All four were originally written 14 years ago for the 'Royton Rag' - a fanzine type publication which has since become defunct. Hence, the number of mention of Royton, Oldham and individual names and places in all four of the articles.

 

 

 

 

 

When I was 17, it was a very good year…

 

The first in a series of articles where we look at the days of our youth. If you are, like me, turning into a sad old wrinklie here’s a chance to look back on the ‘glory days’ of your teenage days, the clothes you wore and the things you did (well, some of them anyway!) It’s an excuse to dig out  those old photos and shine up those reminiscenses

(and even to take exception if you disagree with some of the details – if so, let us know!)Better still send in some of the pictures and let us all share those memories.

 

The Rock ‘n’ Roll Era 1956- 1961

 

The ‘Teds’ 1956 –1958

 

These were the first teenage phenomanum – Britain’s very own ‘juvenile deliquents’. The look emerged in the mid fifties with long ‘Edwardian’ suit jackets and narrow ‘drainpipe’ trousers. To these were added velvet collars and thick soled suede shoes known as beetle crushers or brothel creepers. Most photographs of the time show the style to be not too exaggerated (unlike the ‘parody’ of the style as worn later by Showadywady) and elements were adopted by a large proportion of working class youths. Hair for the lads was the Rock’n’Roll staple of the Brylcreemed quiff, sometimes worn with sideburns with, for true Teds, the hair combed into a thick point at the a back, resembling a ‘duck arse’, hence the name ‘DA’.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course the ‘architypal’ Teds could be found!

 

 

 

 

 

The girls wore flared skirts for jiving, blouses or sweaters and ‘Stilletos’ (though how they jived in those shoes remains a mystery). In some cases the girls wore a female version of the Teddy Boys outfit. (as these Oldham girls in 1956)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The style was spread by the media as as Britain went Rock ‘n’ Roll crazy and it borrowed elements from the hit makers of the day – the Elvis quiff, the bootlace tie, but – as later youth cults would – dress and behaviour was learned from the newspapers. When Bill Hayley and the Comets played in Oldham (Top Rank?) during 1957 the crowd performed the obligatory ‘rampage’, the seats were dutifully slashed.

An Edwardian suit could cost upto £20 at a time when the average wage was about £10, so it was an indication of the swing towards a more afluent youth, virtual full employment and the percieved need to enjoy life.

 

Rock ‘n’ Roll music was seen by the establishment as  ‘the Devil’s music’ and jiving, though tame by today’s standards,was considered reckless but, if you could do it, great for meeting members of the opposite sex. To be a good dancer – as with some of the later cults – was to win the approval of your peers. The more  practised lads could jive with 2 girls at once. There were Dance Halls a plenty and, along with coffee bars (and milk bars!) these were where the action was, with dances taking place somewhere or other most nights of the week. Dave, my colleague who is now 61, a Shotton lad who has lived most of his life in industrial N.E. Wales, tells with glee of

summer evenings in Rhyl dance halls, mixing with holiday making girls down from Lancashire. “Wasn’t it an Oldham girl who taught you to jive, Dave?” I asked whilst putting this piece together, “No,  Bryan” he answered with a blush, “It wasn’t jiving I learned with her!” The sexual revolution had begun! The ‘infamous’ violence for which the Teddy boys were to become notorious occurred most frequently in the dance halls. These were usually territorial, with lads from a particular town or estate having loose affiliations and were often instigated simply because some bloke, usually an ‘outsider’ was dancing with the wrong girl.

 

1958 –1961

 

By 1958 the style was changing. Although  Rock ‘n’ Roll was still the dominant form of music the Teddy Boy look was dying out  and the shorter ‘box’ jacket, worn with a straight, narrow tie was in vogue. The motorbike was growing in popularity and the leather clad look of Gene Vincent emerging to go with it, the photograph of the Royton Lads in issue 8 captures the look to a tee! Dresses were a staple for the girls though pencil skirts had also become fashionable by this time.(Royton youth club probably looked a bit like the set of the film ‘Grease’ – but with real teenagers!)

 The first elements of the rocker image were starting to emerge with  this look and the emergence of the ‘Ton Up Boys’ and their motorbiking clothes and lifestyle.

 

 

 

 

post #22819 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post

What? Anyone else heard that one, because I certainly haven't.

('wrens', maybe? A regional thing?)
And when they did, they would manage to look feminine in them. I can never remember mistaking a girl for a boy.
Sorry, but that's arse-up, and over-simplified. The short-skirt look was around well before (some) girls started adopting boy's clothes. The two-tone jackets/suits on girls were all kinds of lengths. My bird in late 1969 had a Trevira jacket in blue that was 3/4 length, but also a PoW check suit with a bolero jacket and no lapels. I never saw any girls in fishnet tights. Patterned tights, yes; fishnet no.

.

First heard the mistaking the girl for a boy comment back in the 6ts but I'm sure it was being made with regard to hippies , whereby the boys and girls wore the same flares, the same afghan coats and had more or less the exact same long hair. I would agree that I never had a problem identifying a girl from our own sub culture.
It is easy to forget how good many of our women looked in those short dresses but again I would agree about the fishnets. Before the arrival of the punk girls in the mid-7ts the only ladies l can recall seeing wearing fishnets would have been working girls.

Wrens? No , to me a wren was a girl that was in the Navy and can honestly say I have never heard the word used to describe any other type of woman. .
post #22820 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

I never posted this one at the time as I didn't feel it was relevant to the forum, however recent post made me think it might be of interest. (All four were originally written 14 years ago for the 'Royton Rag' - a fanzine type publication which has since become defunct. Hence, the number of mention of Royton, Oldham and individual names and places in all four of the articles.





When I was 17, it was a very good year…
 
The first in a series of articles where we look at the days of our youth. If you are, like me, turning into a sad old wrinklie here’s a chance to look back on the ‘glory days’ of your teenage days, the clothes you wore and the things you did (well, some of them anyway!) It’s an excuse to dig out  those old photos and shine up those reminiscenses
(and even to take exception if you disagree with some of the details – if so, let us know!)Better still send in some of the pictures and let us all share those memories.
 

The Rock ‘n’ Roll Era 1956- 1961



 

The ‘Teds’ 1956 –1958




These were the first teenage phenomanum – Britain’s very own ‘juvenile deliquents’. The look emerged in the mid fifties with long ‘Edwardian’ suit jackets and narrow ‘drainpipe’ trousers. To these were added velvet collars and thick soled suede shoes known as beetle crushers or brothel creepers. Most photographs of the time show the style to be not too exaggerated (unlike the ‘parody’ of the style as worn later by Showadywady) and elements were adopted by a large proportion of working class youths. Hair for the lads was the Rock’n’Roll staple of the Brylcreemed quiff, sometimes worn with sideburns with, for true Teds, the hair combed into a thick point at the a back, resembling a ‘duck arse’, hence the name ‘DA’.











 



Of course the ‘architypal’ Teds could be found!



 







 



 



 



The girls wore flared skirts for jiving, blouses or sweaters and ‘Stilletos’ (though how they jived in those shoes remains a mystery). In some cases the girls wore a female version of the Teddy Boys outfit. (as these Oldham girls in 1956)














The style was spread by the media as as Britain went Rock ‘n’ Roll crazy and it borrowed elements from the hit makers of the day – the Elvis quiff, the bootlace tie, but – as later youth cults would – dress and behaviour was learned from the newspapers. When Bill Hayley and the Comets played in Oldham (Top Rank?) during 1957 the crowd performed the obligatory ‘rampage’, the seats were dutifully slashed.
An Edwardian suit could cost upto £20 at a time when the average wage was about £10, so it was an indication of the swing towards a more afluent youth, virtual full employment and the percieved need to enjoy life.
 
Rock ‘n’ Roll music was seen by the establishment as  ‘the Devil’s music’ and jiving, though tame by today’s standards,was considered reckless but, if you could do it, great for meeting members of the opposite sex. To be a good dancer – as with some of the later cults – was to win the approval of your peers. The more  practised lads could jive with 2 girls at once. There were Dance Halls a plenty and, along with coffee bars (and milk bars!) these were where the action was, with dances taking place somewhere or other most nights of the week. Dave, my colleague who is now 61, a Shotton lad who has lived most of his life in industrial N.E. Wales, tells with glee of
summer evenings in Rhyl dance halls, mixing with holiday making girls down from Lancashire. “Wasn’t it an Oldham girl who taught you to jive, Dave?” I asked whilst putting this piece together, “No,  Bryan” he answered with a blush, “It wasn’t jiving I learned with her!” The sexual revolution had begun! The ‘infamous’ violence for which the Teddy boys were to become notorious occurred most frequently in the dance halls. These were usually territorial, with lads from a particular town or estate having loose affiliations and were often instigated simply because some bloke, usually an ‘outsider’ was dancing with the wrong girl.
 
1958 –1961
 
By 1958 the style was changing. Although  Rock ‘n’ Roll was still the dominant form of music the Teddy Boy look was dying out  and the shorter ‘box’ jacket, worn with a straight, narrow tie was in vogue. The motorbike was growing in popularity and the leather clad look of Gene Vincent emerging to go with it, the photograph of the Royton Lads in issue 8 captures the look to a tee! Dresses were a staple for the girls though pencil skirts had also become fashionable by this time.(Royton youth club probably looked a bit like the set of the film ‘Grease’ – but with real teenagers!)
 The first elements of the rocker image were starting to emerge with  this look and the emergence of the ‘Ton Up Boys’ and their motorbiking clothes and lifestyle.
 




 

With regard to the first picture, I would just have identified them as " men from the 50's". In the same way that you might see well dressed men in the 6ts that were not Mod's. Obviously the Ted look was a bit more varied than I probably recall and obviously it did evolve but I think there is always the likelihood of ordinary people from an era being associated with the youth cult of that era and generally we only see photos of the stereotype, on the whole but there are pictures above that are presumed to be skinheads that could easily just be a bunch of youths from the period . .
Edited by The Saint - 2/1/16 at 3:27am
post #22821 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post


What? Anyone else heard that one, because I certainly haven't.

 

 

Renee was quite a widespread nickname for skinhead girls in the 1980s, though I'm not sure if it goes back any further than that.

 

 

post #22822 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post

Renee was quite a widespread nickname for skinhead girls in the 1980s...

Not in my experience Bela, and we did get around a bit. These names - renees, sorts and the like - I have only ever read.
post #22823 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post

My concept of teddy girls was always like these 2 in the picture below. .


src="http://www.styleforum.net/content/type/61/id/2013680/width/350/height/700/flags/LL" style="; width: 350px; height: 282px">


Of course if you saw them on their own , you might not even associate them with the 'Ted scene , at all. .
One thing that I've always been curious of; Teds predated Rock n Roll. They first emerged as early as 52/53.
Rock n Roll didn't arrive until 55ish.
What would have been their music of choice pre Bill Hailey and Elvis?
post #22824 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post


Not in my experience Bela, and we did get around a bit. These names - renees, sorts and the like - I have only ever read.

Hm, fair enough. I thought I had come across the term with reference to 1980s skingirls more than once, but all of this was before my time, so...

 

Nick Knight aside, what were the Gymslips referring to in that song, then? "See us walking down the street, monkey boots upon our feet, in our red tag Levi jeans... we're the renees"... etc.

 

Is it possible that 'renee' was the female equivalent of 'herbert', or something like that?

post #22825 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny legs View Post


One thing that I've always been curious of; Teds predated Rock n Roll. They first emerged as early as 52/53.
Rock n Roll didn't arrive until 55ish.
What would have been their music of choice pre Bill Hailey and Elvis?

 

I think it was probably jazz, bebop, and swing, like the Zazous.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

Zazou is a typical french subculture that takes origin during the war. They typically wore Zoot suits and shoes with big crepe soles (but not only). Their haircut and overall look was not very far of the later Teddy boys, but was less of an 'uniform'.

 

http://tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.fr/2013/04/zazou-one-of-first-youth-movements-of.html 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazou

 

(more or less the same text in the two articles)

 


Edited by Clouseau - 2/1/16 at 6:59am
post #22826 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post

Renee was quite a widespread nickname for skinhead girls in the 1980s, though I'm not sure if it goes back any further than that.


 

Oh. Maybe 'Rennes' was a typo.
post #22827 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post


Not in my experience Bela, and we did get around a bit. These names - renees, sorts and the like - I have only ever read.

Yep, from what i remember, the generic term 'bird' was mainly used.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 75

post #22828 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny legs View Post


One thing that I've always been curious of; Teds predated Rock n Roll. They first emerged as early as 52/53.
Rock n Roll didn't arrive until 55ish.
What would have been their music of choice pre Bill Hailey and Elvis?

 

As far as I know , they danced to jazz and skiffle before adopting rock n'roll which is obviously what they're famous for. I sure if you look you will find some footage from some skiffle gig where you will see the DA's on display . .plenty of grease. .

post #22829 of 24859

Think you can blame Sounds for that term, renee, becoming popular, as a substitute for bird!, along with a number of other terms. Used by Barney Rubble in 78-79 caught on and used in the mod revival circles and then the Rejects etc....a few words caught on like that ,people used to take Sounds - and Gary Bushells contributions to Jaws - as the Bible. 

post #22830 of 24859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post

Hm, fair enough. I thought I had come across the term with reference to 1980s skingirls more than once, but all of this was before my time, so...

Nick Knight aside, what were the Gymslips referring to in that song, then? "See us walking down the street, monkey boots upon our feet, in our red tag Levi jeans... we're the renees"... etc.

Is it possible that 'renee' was the female equivalent of 'herbert', or something like that?

I think you just hit the nail on the head. Herbert was another word I never heard only seen in places like Sounds or the dedications on the back of an Oi! album. Like renee it was just a load of old cockney bollocks! I don't even know how renee is meant to be pronounced. I suspect it is pronounced reenee - seemed to me to be like an old woman's name from a tv sitcom, the old battleaxe mother in law perhaps. The Gymslips I vaguely heard of, from Sounds maybe, but they never registered at all on the skinhead music scene as I knew it. I will listen to them now to find out how to pronounce it...

I was right!
Edited by covskin - 2/1/16 at 2:15pm
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