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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1499

post #22471 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Vision View Post
 

Dalmeny Place at the junction with Kirkstall Road, Young Man on a Scooter

 
 

Dalmeny Place at the junction with Kirkstall Road, Young Man on a Scooter
Description:
1969. Image shows a young man riding a scooter, about to pull out of Dalmeny Place into Kirkstall Road. He is likely to have just visited Lens of Leeds Scooter Shop, which can be seen at the junction, at number 255 Kirkstall Road. Italian manufactured scooters, like Lambrettas and Vespas, were part of a popular youth subculture in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Scooters were often customised by their owners and shops like Lens were on hand to to advise and provide accessories. The spare helmet has the letters "R.L.S.C." on the visor indicating that the owner was a member of the Red Lion Scooter Club (named after the Leeds pub which was a meeting place.) The view of Kirkstall Road is looking in the direction of Horsforth, away from the city centre. The bike in view is a 1964 Lambretta, probable model is a 3 TV (GT) 200. .
 
 

Dalmeny Place at the junction with Kirkstall Road, Scooter Boy


 
 

Dalmeny Place at the junction with Kirkstall Road, Scooter Boy
 
Description:
1969. Image shows a young 'Scooter Boy' as he sits on his customised machine in Dalmeny Place, near the junction with Kirkstall Road. The white painted brick building on the right is Lens Scooter Shop at number 255 Kirkstall Road. Italian motor scooters, like Lambrettas and Vespas, became part of a youth subculture that originated in the industrial north of England in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The scooter is a 'cutdown' where parts of the bodywork have been cut away to expose the mechanics. The owner has also added chrome plated accessories and extra mirrors. Typically, the boy is wearing an army surplus type parka and a thin scarf. Evidence of demolition is in the background with an area of wasteland where Dalmeny Street and Roseberry Terrace once stood, Roseberry Street is still standing, top left. These streets were red brick back-to-back terraced homes. Running across the background is the Cardigan Clothing Factory. There is a soft drink delivery wagon parked behind the boy.

 

Ref: http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=2012925_174051&DISPLAY=FULL

It has always been said that Mods in the sixties never had mirrors and lights at the same time on their scooters , the theory being that they belonged to two different trends/epochs . The second pic obviously dispels the myths. .

 

 

 

Nevertheless, a great bit of history Soul Vision. .

post #22472 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post


It has always been said that Mods in the sixties never had mirrors and lights at the same time on their scooters , the theory being that they belonged to two different trends/epochs .

I don't remember this being said. I do remember scooters with lights and mirrors in the NW. Here's the front of the old 'Richard Barnes' book...



... with a scoot that has, well, two mirrors and a lot of lights. We've got to remember that there were slightly different fashions/practices in different places in the UK, just as with clothes. Lights and mirrors were being fitted in the NW when I left in 1968. When I arrived in London, scooters mainly had nothing but a sports screen and two mirrors on stalks, and sometimes the side panels removed.
post #22473 of 24884
Just had a rare moment of clarity. Pretty sure you could model the emergence of a subculture from just two organising principles

Subsidiarity+Network Effect=Subculture

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity_(Catholicism)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

Subsidiarity lies either at the level of the individual (the leaders) or at the level of the group (the followers). Positive network effect is 'fashion', negative network effect is 'elitism'. High network effect is 'authenticity', low subsidiarity is 'cosplay', etc.

Works at both micro (trouser length, number of mirrors, etc) and macro ('skinhead', 'punk', etc) level and demonstrates why an overall narrative, however comforting that might be, is impossible.

Anyway, that's enough pseudery.
Edited by covskin - 12/2/15 at 5:54am
post #22474 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post


I don't remember this being said. I do remember scooters with lights and mirrors in the NW. Here's the front of the old 'Richard Barnes' book...



... with a scoot that has, well, two mirrors and a lot of lights. We've got to remember that there were slightly different fashions/practices in different places in the UK, just as with clothes. Lights and mirrors were being fitted in the NW when I left in 1968. When I arrived in London, scooters mainly had nothing but a sports screen and two mirrors on stalks, and sometimes the side panels removed.

 

If you look at the rest of the picture of the guy on the front cover (inside the book) you will see that he is the only one with mirrors , if I remember correctly and they are functioning ones not the superfluous ones featured in the Qudrophenia film. In fact , in that book , that was mostly photographed around 1964, there are lights ,racks, crashbars and screens but a dire absence of mirrors apart from the occasional functional pair. .

 

Obviously, at some point (no doubt after '64) mirrors became popular however the guy in the top picture in Leeds has a scooter that wouldn't look out of place in the Mods book. .

 

post #22475 of 24884
Terry Spencer's daughter Cara has a couple of hundred photos of us Borehamwood skinheads in 1969 It's a shame she didn't put them on her web site so people can see them.
Edited by Gel boy - 12/2/15 at 9:56pm
post #22476 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
 

It has always been said that Mods in the sixties never had mirrors and lights at the same time on their scooters , the theory being that they belonged to two different trends/epochs . The second pic obviously dispels the myths. .

 

 

 

Nevertheless, a great bit of history Soul Vision. .

Interesting Sainter, hadn't heard that, and don't really know so I will leave that to others to debate.  Not sure if each of these guys would be a 'mod' per se but interesting one of them is called a 'scooter boy' probably retrospectively as that might be another term like 'hard mod' that was applied well after the fact as it didn't really get used until the mid to late 80's (?)

post #22477 of 24884
John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) would have been 13 in 1969. Several years later, when one line-up of his band PiL included one member from a NI Catholic background and one from a Protestant background, who were always calling for Blue (Rangers) or Green (Celtic), John used to bawl them out thus, according to his autobiography:

Jesus Christ, what is it you're going on about? I'd be going, 'My favourite piece of clothing in the skinhead days was a green and blue mohair suit - remember them suits? Fine, excellent suits, tonics, which were double-shaded, so it reflected green sometimes, blue at others. My tonic was both blue and green. Think about it...'
Anger is an Energy, p.351

This is the only mention of 'skinhead' in the book. It's not clear whether he was actually a young skinhead in 1969 - he never mentions any such thing in the earlier chapters - or whether he was just making this up to give the band-members a row about their blue-green disputes. His family didn't have a pot to piss in, so for him to have a Tonik mohair suit at 13 would have been stretching it. It's an imaginative put-down, though, even if he did make it up. He would certainly have been old enough to see Tonik suits around.
post #22478 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gel boy View Post


Terry Spencer's daughter Cara has a couple of hundred photos of us Borehamwood skinheads. It's a shame she put the on her web site so people can see them

Terry was responsible for some of the pics in Richard Barnes Mods book, I think, and of course for the famous Piccadilly Circus pictures. But I can't find anything else by Google search.

I'm thinking there was a glitch when you posted your message, and you meant to tell us she has hundreds of photos but it's a shame she hasn't put them on her web site. Right?

What era Borehamwood skins would that be? 69? Revival?
post #22479 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Vision View Post

Interesting Sainter, hadn't heard that, and don't really know so I will leave that to others to debate.  Not sure if each of these guys would be a 'mod' per se but interesting one of them is called a 'scooter boy' probably retrospectively as that might be another term like 'hard mod' that was applied well after the fact as it didn't really get used until the mid to late 80's (?)


The term "scooter boy" is certainly mentioned in the Richard Barnes book which first came out in 1979. If Barnes didn't make the term up then it must have been around for a while . Barnes says that there were scooter boys wearing parkas in the late fifties. .
post #22480 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post


The term "scooter boy" is certainly mentioned in the Richard Barnes book which first came out in 1979. If Barnes didn't make the term up then it must have been around for a while . Barnes says that there were scooter boys wearing parkas in the late fifties. .

 

It's not very clear of what age group/generation you come from. You comment a lot, but on the contrary to the majority of posters here you never took the time to introduce yourself. The strange thing is that sometimes you speak like if you were an original mod, and some other time like if you were a 79 mod.

(No offense or pun intended)

post #22481 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post


This is the only mention of 'skinhead' in the book. It's not clear whether he was actually a young skinhead in 1969 

 

Off the top of my head, I vaguely remember a couple of quotes from an old Omnibus book entitled "Johnny Rotten in his own words" - a cut and paste job consisting of quotes from various interviews. He said something like "we were skinheads and went to football, and it had nothing to do with the game". The other quote was something along the lines of "everybody thought I was a weird kid, cause I was the only skinhead into The Velvet Underground". I don't think I own that book anymore, but I'll post the original quotes if I find it.

 

It's also well-known that people like Lydon and Jah Wobble - who were childhood friends - kept following reggae well into the roots and dub years. The Pistols would listen to nothing but dub on their tour bus. I can imagine that being a case of 'an old flame never dies'. 

post #22482 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bela Kun View Post


"Johnny Rotten in his own words" -

post #22483 of 24884

Yep, that's the one.

post #22484 of 24884

Its my understanding that the term scooter boys and scooterists were often used in the scooter boom of the 1950s when scooter clubs started forming to do tours and crazy shit like ride up Ben Nevis on a Model D Lambretta or vespa jousting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lref4XWSyiE

they were wearing parkas as a cheap warm coat, these pioneers were doing massive journeys wearing a warm jumper and an overcoat they must have been soaked through and freezing cold, thankfully they invented cordura coats and trousers later on

 

and then mod came along, nicked the scooters and the coat, got a bad reputation for scooters so the scooterboys and scooterists stopped riding them because of the fear of being attacked by greasers etc, and the scooters were put in the sheds and forgotten about,these became the barn finds of the 1980s

post #22485 of 24884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Handsome View Post
 

Its my understanding that the term scooter boys and scooterists were often used in the scooter boom of the 1950s when scooter clubs started forming to do tours and crazy shit like ride up Ben Nevis on a Model D Lambretta or vespa jousting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lref4XWSyiE

they were wearing parkas as a cheap warm coat, these pioneers were doing massive journeys wearing a warm jumper and an overcoat they must have been soaked through and freezing cold, thankfully they invented cordura coats and trousers later on

 

and then mod came along, nicked the scooters and the coat, got a bad reputation for scooters so the scooterboys and scooterists stopped riding them because of the fear of being attacked by greasers etc, and the scooters were put in the sheds and forgotten about,these became the barn finds of the 1980s

 

Yep, sounds about right to me . It is a funny thing that I remember seeing scooterists wearing parkas in a scooter magazine of yesteryear(I remember it also featured some sort of scooter Gymkhana, that didn't look very cool at all) but they somehow didn't look stylish the way they did on the Mods . I never quite figured out what happened to all those guys that rode scooters for transport more than an ethos but what you said is perfectly plausible .The closest you are probably going to get to a scooter gymkhana now,would be one of the national rallies , no doubt.

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