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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1244

post #18646 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

roytonboy. I have recently started going to football again after the disaster which has befallen my wretched local club and my daft promise to support them until they get back into the league, fool that I am. Anyway this has caused me to dig out the large box of 70s programmes that I had put away and I have started to sort them out and to buy the ones I need to complete the collection ( only from games that I attended ). Reading these programmes is a walk down memory lane and not just the football,even my GF has been looking through some ( after offering to take them to the tip mind you) and taking an interest in the adverts,prices and details for travel on coaches and special trains.

In some are pictures of our fans mostly wearing baggy jeans and Doc Martens and with long hair ( boot boy style),I think that I agree with Eds seamless transition description,a gradual change from skinhead through sudehead and then smoothie/boot boy perhaps.

 

That's certainly how I see it, particularly with regard to football fans. In terms of style, it is a seamless transition from mod to skinhead, through suedehead. I think (as already stated) by 1972 many other influences started to have an impact and this then moved many from that culture (which to me also includes soul music, scooters and sharp dressing with an eye to detail) to a more generalised  teenage look. Naturally, this was a gradual process and certain threads could still be seen. (Doc Martens, for instance, were worn right through the 70s and beyond) It could be argued that the Slade image owed much to the look of the terraces (indeed, almost a caricature) and Gary Glitter's records were very football chant-esque. Add in influences like 'A clockwork Orange' and 'Budgie'  and you start to get a bit of a mish mash of images. Taken to it's extreme, the look of the Bay City Rollers has some of these influences. (In late 1971 some turned their Harringtons inside out and wore them as tartan jackets - tartan became wearable years before the 'Rollers' came along- they merely jumped on that fact and took it to ridiculous lengths.)

 

cerneabbas - Yes, I did think of you on the final day of last season when I saw that your club had dropped out of the Football League. WTF has gone on there?!?

post #18647 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

That's certainly how I see it, particularly with regard to football fans. In terms of style, it is a seamless transition from mod to skinhead, through suedehead. I think (as already stated) by 1972 many other influences started to have an impact and this then moved many from that culture (which to me also includes soul music, scooters and sharp dressing with an eye to detail) to a more generalised  teenage look. Naturally, this was a gradual process and certain threads could still be seen. (Doc Martens, for instance, were worn right through the 70s and beyond) It could be argued that the Slade image owed much to the look of the terraces (indeed, almost a caricature) and Gary Glitter's records were very football chant-esque. Add in influences like 'A clockwork Orange' and 'Budgie'  and you start to get a bit of a mish mash of images. Taken to it's extreme, the look of the Bay City Rollers has some of these influences. (In late 1971 some turned their Harringtons inside out and wore them as tartan jackets - tartan became wearable years before the 'Rollers' came along- they merely jumped on that fact and took it to ridiculous lengths.)

 

cerneabbas - Yes, I did think of you on the final day of last season when I saw that your club had dropped out of the Football League. WTF has gone on there?!?

I agree with all of that,although I never got into the music side of things.

Slightly controversial perhaps but I often wondered if the tartan wearing was something to do with the Tartan gangs that were in the news then in Northern Ireland,I remember lads here cutting the tartan linings out of kids duffel coats at school and sewing the material onto Crombie pocket flaps and lapels...I never knew why so I am just guessing.

I wont go into my clubs downfall on here,but I did bump into Pressure_Drop at Portsmouth toward the end of last season,he came over to say hello and told me that I had more hair now than in the 70s !! shame its going grey though.


Edited by cerneabbas - 9/3/14 at 7:10am
post #18648 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
 

Just a word to say the discussion started by Roytonboy is very interesting, gave a boost to the thread, as did the numerous replies by the members.

I'm not sure we had all those suedeheads pictures. Sorry if we had, but they are anyway a good illustration of the recent talk...

Interesting pictures Clouseau,I think that I have seen the middle one before,it would be interesting to know the years they were taken,the mix of clothes and hairstyles is a real assortment.

post #18649 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

That's certainly how I see it, particularly with regard to football fans. In terms of style, it is a seamless transition from mod to skinhead, through suedehead. I think (as already stated) by 1972 many other influences started to have an impact and this then moved many from that culture (which to me also includes soul music, scooters and sharp dressing with an eye to detail) to a more generalised  teenage look. Naturally, this was a gradual process and certain threads could still be seen. (Doc Martens, for instance, were worn right through the 70s and beyond) It could be argued that the Slade image owed much to the look of the terraces (indeed, almost a caricature) and Gary Glitter's records were very football chant-esque. Add in influences like 'A clockwork Orange' and 'Budgie'  and you start to get a bit of a mish mash of images. Taken to it's extreme, the look of the Bay City Rollers has some of these influences. (In late 1971 some turned their Harringtons inside out and wore them as tartan jackets - tartan became wearable years before the 'Rollers' came along- they merely jumped on that fact and took it to ridiculous lengths.)

 

 

 

Late 1971 (in our area)  Not too difficult to see the link with mod and skinhead here:

 

 

 

1973 however............

 

 

 

Take away the Doc Martens and it's difficult to see any connection.............

post #18650 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

Late 1971 (in our area)  Not too difficult to see the link with mod and skinhead here:

 

 

 

1973 however............

 

 

 

Take away the Doc Martens and it's difficult to see any connection.............

Yes that shows the change well..I always think christmas 71 was the time that I noticed the change in Bristol,kids had the tank tops and round collar shirts for Christmas ( or bought them during the holidays ) and by the time we went back to school the BD was on its way out.

post #18651 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Yes that shows the change well..I always think christmas 71 was the time that I noticed the change in Bristol,kids had the tank tops and round collar shirts for Christmas ( or bought them during the holidays ) and by the time we went back to school the BD was on its way out.

 

Yes, very 1972

 

 

 

But not suedehead, smoothie or bootboy! (The beginning of the end)

post #18652 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

Yes, very 1972

 

 

 

But not suedehead, smoothie or bootboy! (The beginning of the end)

Yes it was finished in 72 IMO,and just went downhill...I suppose in that magazine picture from 71 the smart look had gone as far as it could,time for something different ( very different).

post #18653 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post

Skinhead/suedehead/bootboy, the clothes evolved but I think it is all in the hair. Bootboy hair is an unequivocal clean break, not grown out and trimmed a bit like suedehead but short (sometimes very short) on top but very long at the back and sides. Think Michael Bolton from the 80s!

I would say more Rod Stewart,when he was with the Faces(circa `72).
post #18654 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

That's certainly how I see it, particularly with regard to football fans. In terms of style, it is a seamless transition from mod to skinhead, through suedehead. I think (as already stated) by 1972 many other influences started to have an impact and this then moved many from that culture (which to me also includes soul music, scooters and sharp dressing with an eye to detail) to a more generalised  teenage look. Naturally, this was a gradual process and certain threads could still be seen. (Doc Martens, for instance, were worn right through the 70s and beyond) It could be argued that the Slade image owed much to the look of the terraces (indeed, almost a caricature) and Gary Glitter's records were very football chant-esque. Add in influences like 'A clockwork Orange' and 'Budgie'  and you start to get a bit of a mish mash of images. Taken to it's extreme, the look of the Bay City Rollers has some of these influences. (In late 1971 some turned their Harringtons inside out and wore them as tartan jackets - tartan became wearable years before the 'Rollers' came along- they merely jumped on that fact and took it to ridiculous lengths.)

 

cerneabbas - Yes, I did think of you on the final day of last season when I saw that your club had dropped out of the Football League. WTF has gone on there?!?

 

What was wrong with the Bay City Rollers ? :happy:

 

Seriously though , Slade were one of the few glam rock bands that a guy could be into , the rest of those bands you mention being heavily supported by teenyboppers. .

 

I actually think that I heard the term boot boys or bovver boy before I actually heard the term skinhead . Certainly , DM's were a much prized position back in those days and you looked after them with great pride.

The picture of Kevin Keegan I would say was , just regular guy fashion back in 1972 . That was a look that even some teachers Iknew wore( I think Noel Edmonds still wears that style) and it was the style that was pretty much shared by men and women with not even that much difference in the footwear , sometimes . Style had gone and if you did see anyone in a suit the chances are it was voluminous thing with huge Dan Dares.

 

Fashion back then was pretty much cyclic . When the Kevin Keegan look hold , as you say , the style went out the window and you got wholesale , garish 7ts fashion , for what seemed like a decade. I'm not sure when skinheads came back but they were certainly around by the time of the Mod renewal in the late 7ts. You would some times hear , "yeh , Bob Bloggs thinks he's a hard man , I just saw him wearing a Crombie"

 

Style these days is fucked up. .

post #18655 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by covskin View Post

Skinhead/suedehead/bootboy, the clothes evolved but I think it is all in the hair. Bootboy hair is an unequivocal clean break, not grown out and trimmed a bit like suedehead but short (sometimes very short) on top but very long at the back and sides. Think Michael Bolton from the 80s!

I would say more Rod Stewart,when he was with the Faces(circa `72).

Didn't want to give too many tips, wouldn't want to see it coming back.
post #18656 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

The original "Pow Wow" in Sheffield was,to me,in a better Club(with a great atmospheret).It was small,seedy and it attracted some of the smartest best new Mods around.

Roytonboy,I can recommend the AdLib in Lincoln City.It has everything-a small lCellar Club(2 Rooms),,well dressed People and the music is top notch.It happens 4 times a year(next being October 11th).If you don`t believe me ask Mr.Knightley.Himself and his lovely Wife travelled down from Essex,to go there(as we do- this year it will be 4 times) smile.gif.

Yes + 1 (even the discerning Mrs K approved!)
post #18657 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post





Take away the Doc Martens and it's difficult to see any connection.............

Maybe the denim jacket, but that's about all.
post #18658 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery View Post


Maybe the denim jacket, but that's about all.

And the Crombies and the jeans with turn ups...in fact cut their hair and change all their jeans to ones like the lad 2nd from right and your not far from skinheads ?

post #18659 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post


On Friday night we went to the Twisted Wheel in Manchester and stayed over. On Saturday morning we were chatting with the waitress over breakfast and she was saying that the 'Wheel' has changed over the past 12 months. I commented on how I was one of very few who had worn a suit. She agreed and told us about a club in Stoke - "That would suit you" she said,nodding at me, "Lots of Mods go there."  When she went I turned to my girlfriend and asked in mock incredulity,  "Did she just accuse me of being a mod?!?"

Just to be clear, what year was this? I would be interested to know when (other) people stopped using the term 'mod'.

Some of the stuff below I have mentioned before.

In the summer of 1968, when I arrived in S E London, I used the word to the first bunch of people I met who dressed that way (as I recall, it was in a Wimpy bar in Bromley, Kent). They said "What? What?", so asked them what they called themselves if they didn't say 'mods'. They said "Nothing really... maybe 'totters'." Well of course I knew that term from Steptoe and Son, and knew that it meant scrap merchant, so when I looked puzzled about that, they said that it had become a nickname for some kids who dressed that way, because they got pocket money from scrounging scrap to sell to the merchants. However, back in Blackpool, kids still thought of themselves as 'mods'.

Still in 1968, I was at college one day, wearing a surfer jacket, jungle greens, and cherry red boots, and with short hair. A girl I knew was chatting to me, and she introduced me to a mate of hers by saying "This is Paul - isn't he the perfect little mod!" Well her mate looked puzzled, and said, "No, not really. Mods are fashionable dressers..." There then followed a bit of a discussion about what 'mod' actually meant.

Boots, jungle greens, and short hair - remember however, that the term 'skinhead' back then would have been taken as a term of abuse.

In 1969, Chris Welch brought out his notorious article 'It's a Mod, Mod, Mod, World', describing as 'mods' what would later in the same year be called 'skinheads' by the press.

What were kids calling themselves up North in 1969? I had stopped going back there by mid-69. There was a link on this thread a while back to the reminiscences of a bloke from Blackpool, about the transition from 'mod' to 'Northern Soul'. He mentioned that the local 'skinheads' had stolen the fashion for wearing Levi jackets; in his experience there was a definite break between mods and skinheads. Bearing in mind that a lot of the skinheads would have been recent arrivals I can see how someone could have that impression.

I wonder how long the people who became devotees of Northern Soul still regarded themselves somehow as mods?

Incidentally, even though it was screened in 2012 I'm still irritated by the 'Northern Soul' episode of Inspector George Gently. It was supposedly set in April 1968. Now, I know that Dave Godin is supposed to have come up with the term in 1968, to help the employees at his record shop differentiate between the tastes of customers from the North and the South, but the term didn't have any wide currency until he used it in a magazine article in 1970. I would think that in Durham in 1968, the music would simply have been known as 'soul', and the dance crowd at any soul disco would have been identifiably northern 'mod' in appearance. The whole atmosphere of that episode was wrong.

(But let's face it, TV doesn't do the 60s all that well anyway - the makers of Heartbeat forgot that steam locomotion ended in 1968, for example)

Veering dangerously off topic now...
post #18660 of 18916
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

And the Crombies and the jeans with turn ups...in fact cut their hair and change all their jeans to ones like the lad 2nd from right and your not far from skinheads ?

Now you come to mention it, quite a lot, really! biggrin.gif
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