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post #17086 of 19147
One brand I remember for polos back then that is still going is Aertex
post #17087 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Good post.

Yes the kids can wear all the clothes,they could even get the look totally right but it wouldn't really be the same now too much has changed around us.

I have seen  comments made on football sites by blokes over 50 saying how the atmosphere has changed ( died) at matches now compared with the 60s /70s,how to get the atmosphere back they ask ? maybe safe standing ? it wont work because people have changed ,their expectations have changed. Health and safety rules ( no smoking in grounds now for instance ) stricter stewarding,much higher prices and a change in the fans themselves from mainly working class males to families,you cant just recreate the old atmosphere when there have been so many changes.

You mention tribalism and I think that you are spot on,a group of young skinheads going to watch their local team play were part of a tribe,now a young lad calls himself a Man Utd ( or Chelsea or whoever ) fan because he watches every game on Sky and gets a replica shirt every season,it just isn't going to be the same for him.

I don't think that there will be any youth cults in the future as we knew them,I think that they were part of a certain time,and if there were to be a scene at all I would hope that they made something of their own instead of rehashing older stuff.

I have to say that link that you put up made me think Pete Doherty at a fancy dress party,I wonder now if many people have the innovation to develop their own look,is it just easier to slavishly copy an older look ?

Yes, some great posts lately that I am only just catching up with.

 

Whether it is young people trying hard to approximate a look or a handful of much older ones trying to recapture a style of their yoof it never really works, as you say.  Everything has changed so much - politically, economically and socially to add to the technological developments that have already been mentioned.  In particular the old working class has all but disappeared and we all have middle class aspirations - whatever they may be.

 

 I don't think there will be any more youth cults either. Robert Elms gets a rough ride on here (perhaps rightly) but I do feel he pinpointed in The Way We Wore the step-change that happened in the late 80s and which brought us to the environment we all enjoy / suffer today, depending on your point of view. The need today seems to be to fit in and avoid the risks that come along with placing yourself slightly outside the mainstream of society.  People have grown up with global brands like Starbucks, Microsoft, and so on and they don't have the concept or, if they did, the balls to do anything outside of the norm.

post #17088 of 19147

I admire the way my son has walked his own way with hip hop music, minimalist non branded clothing, short almost buzz cut hair but (thankfully) he's not part of a street scene which carries more danger these days as they blur into informal area gangs.   The scenes now are online where he interacts and gets involved with reviews, sharing music and for him its exciting.  It's just different to how we think of it.

 

Whereas I grew up Irish immigrant working class, he's solidly comfortable middle class and in some ways better for it.  When I think back there were some decidedly scary, risky times and not everyone made it through unscatched.   He's still got that music spark and creative impulse but it's rare and perhaps gets watered down with generations.   The music he likes may not be the same but it stems from the same culture and aspirations as the R&B/soul/blue beat/reggae/funk etc that we all appreciate.

post #17089 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

Are we talking 1967/68?


I know ,quite a few pages back,that there was a discussion with myself and Bob the Badger-regarding the Two Tone Mohair Suits.The Gunmetal Shade,I can remember about `67.The Blue/Black came out after.
post #17090 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Good post.
Yes the kids can wear all the clothes,they could even get the look totally right but it wouldn't really be the same now too much has changed around us.
I have seen  comments made on football sites by blokes over 50 saying how the atmosphere has changed ( died) at matches now compared with the 60s /70s,how to get the atmosphere back they ask ? maybe safe standing ? it wont work because people have changed ,their expectations have changed. Health and safety rules ( no smoking in grounds now for instance ) stricter stewarding,much higher prices and a change in the fans themselves from mainly working class males to families,you cant just recreate the old atmosphere when there have been so many changes.
You mention tribalism and I think that you are spot on,a group of young skinheads going to watch their local team play were part of a tribe,now a young lad calls himself a Man Utd ( or Chelsea or whoever ) fan because he watches every game on Sky and gets a replica shirt every season,it just isn't going to be the same for him.
I don't think that there will be any youth cults in the future as we knew them,I think that they were part of a certain time,and if there were to be a scene at all I would hope that they made something of their own instead of rehashing older stuff.
I have to say that link that you put up made me think Pete Doherty at a fancy dress party,I wonder now if many people have the innovation to develop their own look,is it just easier to slavishly copy an older look ?


I suppose it is the same at any Football Ground now.When I go to West Ham I feel I am in the International Fan Stand,instead of the Home Support.Around me there is Spanish,Chinese,East European and others watching the Match.Next to me on one Match Day,there was a Father and Son who came from Bristol to watch the Game.It will not matter whether they have "Safe Standing Areas" the whole atmosphere has changed.There is no local support-most of West Ham now come in from Essex,Suffolk and such like.When I worked for a while in Wisbech(Cambridgeshire)there were locals coming in the Store with West Ham Shirts on-some of them had never been to the Boleyn.smile.gif
post #17091 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post

Yes, some great posts lately that I am only just catching up with.

Whether it is young people trying hard to approximate a look or a handful of much older ones trying to recapture a style of their yoof it never really works, as you say.  Everything has changed so much - politically, economically and socially to add to the technological developments that have already been mentioned.  In particular the old working class has all but disappeared and we all have middle class aspirations - whatever they may be.

 I don't think there will be any more youth cults either. Robert Elms gets a rough ride on here (perhaps rightly) but I do feel he pinpointed in The Way We Wore the step-change that happened in the late 80s and which brought us to the environment we all enjoy / suffer today, depending on your point of view. The need today seems to be to fit in and avoid the risks that come along with placing yourself slightly outside the mainstream of society.  People have grown up with global brands like Starbucks, Microsoft, and so on and they don't have the concept or, if they did, the balls to do anything outside of the norm.

The way I look at Robert Elms is,he seems to be at the front of every Teenage Fashion Trends(or so he reckons).Skinheads were only what he saw around him,or came for his older Brother.He would be listenable if he did not speak in this smug B.B.C.I am better than you voice.I cannot stand the man(but I wished I knew Sade though biggrin.gif).
post #17092 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkSmart View Post

I admire the way my son has walked his own way with hip hop music, minimalist non branded clothing, short almost buzz cut hair but (thankfully) he's not part of a street scene which carries more danger these days as they blur into informal area gangs.   The scenes now are online where he interacts and gets involved with reviews, sharing music and for him its exciting.  It's just different to how we think of it.

Whereas I grew up Irish immigrant working class, he's solidly comfortable middle class and in some ways better for it.  When I think back there were some decidedly scary, risky times and not everyone made it through unscatched.   He's still got that music spark and creative impulse but it's rare and perhaps gets watered down with generations.   The music he likes may not be the same but it stems from the same culture and aspirations as the R&B/soul/blue beat/reggae/funk etc that we all appreciate.

Good for him.
post #17093 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Good post.

Yes the kids can wear all the clothes,they could even get the look totally right but it wouldn't really be the same now too much has changed around us.

I have seen  comments made on football sites by blokes over 50 saying how the atmosphere has changed ( died) at matches now compared with the 60s /70s,how to get the atmosphere back they ask ? maybe safe standing ? it wont work because people have changed ,their expectations have changed. Health and safety rules ( no smoking in grounds now for instance ) stricter stewarding,much higher prices and a change in the fans themselves from mainly working class males to families,you cant just recreate the old atmosphere when there have been so many changes.

You mention tribalism and I think that you are spot on,a group of young skinheads going to watch their local team play were part of a tribe,now a young lad calls himself a Man Utd ( or Chelsea or whoever ) fan because he watches every game on Sky and gets a replica shirt every season,it just isn't going to be the same for him.

I don't think that there will be any youth cults in the future as we knew them,I think that they were part of a certain time,and if there were to be a scene at all I would hope that they made something of their own instead of rehashing older stuff.

I have to say that link that you put up made me think Pete Doherty at a fancy dress party,I wonder now if many people have the innovation to develop their own look,is it just easier to slavishly copy an older look ?

 

cerneabbas - Recent research shows that the average age of people attending Premier League games is now 41. Gone forever at this level are the experiences that we had of going with your local mates, meeting up with others, walking around the ground, standing together. Lads of that age just can't do it now - you have to buy tickets in advance,  you can't buy more than a couple of seats together (it's probably too expensive for most) . Your post reminded me of of a visit to Bramhall Lane, early in 1972. 5 or 6 of us had gone on a coach and inadvertently found ourselves on the Shoreham Street Kop (i.e. the home end) with the rest of the City fans gathered behind the goal opposite. At that time Bramhall Lane was still used to stage Yorkshire County cricket matches so the pitch was huge with the football stadium on only 3 sides. Next to the football pitch was the cricket wicket and the fourth side was the cricket pavilion which was closed during the football season. What to do? We made our way towards the pavilion and proceeded to climb over all the walls and fences down that side of the stadium, behind the pavilion until we reached the opposite end of the pitch. Great fun, just like being on an obstacle course. We weren't the only group of young City fans doing it either. The whole thing would be totally unthinkable now. 

 

Incidentally, there is some tribalism amongst young people. My Son is 23 now but when he was 16 -18 he would go with his mates to watch Wrexham play and here, at a lower league club, they could group together. His commitment to having the right look was something we could all relate to - the clothes, of course, were different but the eye to detail, the 'right' make (in his case Stone Island and Burberry) worn in the right way were just as many of us were in our youth. I think it was Clouseau whose posed the question recently about original skinheads having kids who were the same - well, my Son was not a skinhead as we understand it but in many ways was the skinhead/suedehead of his era - he did get into fights at football and nights out, he did dress in the mode of the time, have his hair cut in particular styles (including a No. 1 crop for a brief period),  he was into the music that like minded kids of his age were. One thought has brought a smile to my face since joining this forum - I wonder if in 40 years time he'll be scouring e-bay or other shops for clothes reminiscent of that era?

post #17094 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post
 

Yes, some great posts lately that I am only just catching up with.

 

Whether it is young people trying hard to approximate a look or a handful of much older ones trying to recapture a style of their yoof it never really works, as you say.  Everything has changed so much - politically, economically and socially to add to the technological developments that have already been mentioned.  In particular the old working class has all but disappeared and we all have middle class aspirations - whatever they may be.

 

 I don't think there will be any more youth cults either. Robert Elms gets a rough ride on here (perhaps rightly) but I do feel he pinpointed in The Way We Wore the step-change that happened in the late 80s and which brought us to the environment we all enjoy / suffer today, depending on your point of view. The need today seems to be to fit in and avoid the risks that come along with placing yourself slightly outside the mainstream of society.  People have grown up with global brands like Starbucks, Microsoft, and so on and they don't have the concept or, if they did, the balls to do anything outside of the norm.

Mr Knightley.I agree with your sentiments ,what makes me laugh is how so many people find reasons to think that they are "middle class",if you go to work to earn a wage so that you can live you are working class IMO,and theres no need to be ashamed of it.

I don't like this "global village" thing either,everywhere is too much the same now,same shops in every high street,same food in every country,not so many regional variations as there were,why bother travelling if its the same when you get there?.

On a more encouraging note I remember that you once asked about some brogue boots made by Loake for Herring shoes,I have recently bought a pair of Herring Hawkshead boots (made by Loake ) and I am very pleased with them,they are in pebbled grain leather not everyones choice but I think that it looks good polished up.

post #17095 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post


I suppose it is the same at any Football Ground now.When I go to West Ham I feel I am in the International Fan Stand,instead of the Home Support.Around me there is Spanish,Chinese,East European and others watching the Match.Next to me on one Match Day,there was a Father and Son who came from Bristol to watch the Game.It will not matter whether they have "Safe Standing Areas" the whole atmosphere has changed.There is no local support-most of West Ham now come in from Essex,Suffolk and such like.When I worked for a while in Wisbech(Cambridgeshire)there were locals coming in the Store with West Ham Shirts on-some of them had never been to the Boleyn.smile.gif

I think that the world cup in 1990 caught the publics imagination and things really changed for the big clubs with the premier league.

In the 70s I would go up to watch West Ham when I had the money,it was a special day for me then,I always bought a t shirt or a sweatshirt or a scarf (remember the silk ones ?) that couldn't be bought here,now I suppose you can buy anything on the internet.

I stopped going in the mid 80s and I have only been back once since the stadium was redeveloped,it might sound strange to some people but although the stadium is better in a lot of ways I didn't like it as much,sat down,too many stewards,even the singing seemed half hearted compared to earlier years,I was a bit down hearted afterwards.


Edited by cerneabbas - 2/25/14 at 12:28pm
post #17096 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botolph View Post

Very nice find! Hadn't ever heard that track before. A really nice one and very animated vocal performance. I always love when they sing the songs like they OWN them.
The Stax/Volt review was only put up in thd last couple months. Glad to have stumbled upon it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post

Great track Elwood.
It was well known and very popular.Dave Godin was a big fan of what he called "Deep Soul" also.He was always a champion of Bobby "Blue" Bland.His all time favourite song was Make me Yours by Bettye Swan however.I remember reading his column in each issue of B&S and he seemed to mention that track almost weekly.
Being a slow one ,it never got played a lot that I recall,but one that I grew to like and worth a listen

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=elGifrAU5xg


I had a feeling that it was well known in Soul circles from it being raved about by Mr. Godin and uploaded so many times on YouTube. Botolph's price research confirms it. Still great to find such a good song. Thanks Gsvs5 for that Betty Swann - definitely a "grower". I'd seen the "Deep Soul" references with Dave Godin and I'm starting to work through his Deep Soul Treasures albums which seem to have been uploaded to YouTube in their entirety.
post #17097 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

cerneabbas - Recent research shows that the average age of people attending Premier League games is now 41. Gone forever at this level are the experiences that we had of going with your local mates, meeting up with others, walking around the ground, standing together. Lads of that age just can't do it now - you have to buy tickets in advance,  you can't buy more than a couple of seats together (it's probably too expensive for most) . Your post reminded me of of a visit to Bramhall Lane, early in 1972. 5 or 6 of us had gone on a coach and inadvertently found ourselves on the Shoreham Street Kop (i.e. the home end) with the rest of the City fans gathered behind the goal opposite. At that time Bramhall Lane was still used to stage Yorkshire County cricket matches so the pitch was huge with the football stadium on only 3 sides. Next to the football pitch was the cricket wicket and the fourth side was the cricket pavilion which was closed during the football season. What to do? We made our way towards the pavilion and proceeded to climb over all the walls and fences down that side of the stadium, behind the pavilion until we reached the opposite end of the pitch. Great fun, just like being on an obstacle course. We weren't the only group of young City fans doing it either. The whole thing would be totally unthinkable now.

 

Incidentally, there is some tribalism amongst young people. My Son is 23 now but when he was 16 -18 he would go with his mates to watch Wrexham play and here, at a lower league club, they could group together. His commitment to having the right look was something we could all relate to - the clothes, of course, were different but the eye to detail, the 'right' make (in his case Stone Island and Burberry) worn in the right way were just as many of us were in our youth. I think it was Clouseau whose posed the question recently about original skinheads having kids who were the same - well, my Son was not a skinhead as we understand it but in many ways was the skinhead/suedehead of his era - he did get into fights at football and nights out, he did dress in the mode of the time, have his hair cut in particular styles (including a No. 1 crop for a brief period),  he was into the music that like minded kids of his age were. One thought has brought a smile to my face since joining this forum - I wonder if in 40 years time he'll be scouring e-bay or other shops for clothes reminiscent of that era?

Yes the premier league had better do something about getting youngsters to watch games or its not going to have a good future.

There are some lads who still go to the Bristol clubs and at Rovers they still have standing areas even a home end ! but its £20 to watch fourth division football we were used to much cheaper times.

Hmm I went to Sheffield Utd in the 70s and as I remember it the Shoreham end was pretty big and virtually everyone in there wore a red white and black scarf ( or two ) are you sure that your presence there was so innocent ?.

I think that there is probably a thriving market for the casual gear now on e bay,imagine the prices in 40 years time.

On a similar theme I got myself a nice enamel badge (as discussed on here a while back),an original very early 70s one in nice condition,about the size of an old shilling coin, Bristol Rovers with the old coat of arms of Bristol,£2.77 on e bay including delivery,I was well chuffed...nostalgia rules ok

post #17098 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Yes the premier league had better do something about getting youngsters to watch games or its not going to have a good future.

There are some lads who still go to the Bristol clubs and at Rovers they still have standing areas even a home end ! but its £20 to watch fourth division football we were used to much cheaper times.

Hmm I went to Sheffield Utd in the 70s and as I remember it the Shoreham end was pretty big and virtually everyone in there wore a red white and black scarf ( or two ) are you sure that your presence there was so innocent ?.

I think that there is probably a thriving market for the casual gear now on e bay,imagine the prices in 40 years time.

On a similar theme I got myself a nice enamel badge (as discussed on here a while back),an original very early 70s one in nice condition,about the size of an old shilling coin, Bristol Rovers with the old coat of arms of Bristol,£2.77 on e bay including delivery,I was well chuffed...nostalgia rules ok

 

Ah, nostalgia, it's not what it used to be!

 

As an aside, for those with an interest in football. In the period 1970-73 I traveled all over the north and midlands to watch matches and I have to say that the Shoreham Street End at Sheffield United was the loudest I ever heard. (and yes, I did go to Anfield, Goodison, the cess-pit, Elland Road and St. James Park amongst others)

 

I'm not sure that my son ever referred to himself as a 'casual', or any other name (certainly not Chav, which was not used around here or 'scally' which was the local equivalent) but he was hostile to kids who were not like him, such as 'Emos', so it was a kind of tribalism. It's quite funny now he's a bit older to hear him say, "Is this what young people are listening to nowadays?" and to tut and shake his head at some of their clothes (all that is missing is the phrase, "what's the world coming to!") Even he laughs to hear himself say it!

post #17099 of 19147
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood View Post



I had a feeling that it was well known in Soul circles from it being raved about by Mr. Godin and uploaded so many times on YouTube. Botolph's price research confirms it. Still great to find such a good song. Thanks Gsvs5 for that Betty Swann - definitely a "grower". I'd seen the "Deep Soul" references with Dave Godin and I'm starting to work through his Deep Soul Treasures albums which seem to have been uploaded to YouTube in their entirety.

 

Still played at the Twisted Wheel to this day.

post #17100 of 19147

Agree with Cerneabbas on class. It's a relation towards production and property/land ownership (not individual house ownership mind). Plus the middle class really confuses the whole class issue because they constantly become workers, due to capitalist competition. While we're on the issue, the traditional ruling class party in Britain, The Conservatives want to rebrand themselves the Workers' Party in typical NSDAP (Nazis) style. I can only presume it's completely opportunistic and to cause confusion during a future period of further austerity and economic stagnation/decline. In other happy news groups in Ukraine are openly calling themselves "Hundreds" as in you know the Black Hundreds who committed pogroms of workers', Jews and anyone else they took a disliking to. A forerunner to the fascists. 

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