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post #16651 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirryacus View Post

Wasn't that about 1971? Was that your view at the time and has it changed when you saw what to was to come? I would dare to say I would draw the line at 1977 thereabouts.

Yes it was.By early `70 I had stopped going to the Jamaican Reggae Shops,too much was coming out that I did not like(I still dislike those Tunes today-along with the "Skinhead"Records).One thing has changed from those days.About `69/`70 you had the first of the "Dj" Sounds starting to emerge.To start with you had older Classics,with Djs(Selectors) "Toasting" over them.At the time I hated it,but a few years later I picked up 2 Trojan Compilations "Versions Galore-Vols.2 and 3" from a 2nd hand Shop.There are some good Tracks on it,I include a couple of "Dj" Versions in my Set now.Another thing is,I go more for the "Revival" side of Reggae(Records that came out `71 to `75,my choice)that Skinheads or Suedeheads never caught on to-but older Jamaicans love to hear.The Dj(Mr.Biggs),who have I now worked with.has put me on to some fantastic 45s. smile.gif
post #16652 of 18946
Sorry about my last "Post"-my English is getting dreadful !!!!!
post #16653 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post


Yes it was.By early `70 I had stopped going to the Jamaican Reggae Shops,too much was coming out that I did not like(I still dislike those Tunes today-along with the "Skinhead"Records).One thing has changed from those days.About `69/`70 you had the first of the "Dj" Sounds starting to emerge.To start with you had older Classics,with Djs(Selectors) "Toasting" over them.At the time I hated it,but a few years later I picked up 2 Trojan Compilations "Versions Galore-Vols.2 and 3" from a 2nd hand Shop.There are some good Tracks on it,I include a couple of "Dj" Versions in my Set now.Another thing is,I go more for the "Revival" side of Reggae(Records that came out `71 to `75,my choice)that Skinheads or Suedeheads never caught on to-but older Jamaicans love to hear.The Dj(Mr.Biggs),who have I now worked with.has put me on to some fantastic 45s. smile.gif

By Skinhead records do you mean stuff such as Skinhead Moonstomp by Symarip etc?

post #16654 of 18946

I like this one.

post #16655 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirryacus View Post
 

I don't care what genre it was I didn't like it.

 

 

Alright, simmer down now! :D  Different band.  They were talking about the QUIK, I was on about the QUICK from California.  I was surprised to say the least to see the name on the list above.  

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post


Yes it was.By early `70 I had stopped going to the Jamaican Reggae Shops,too much was coming out that I did not like(I still dislike those Tunes today-along with the "Skinhead"Records).One thing has changed from those days.About `69/`70 you had the first of the "Dj" Sounds starting to emerge.To start with you had older Classics,with Djs(Selectors) "Toasting" over them.At the time I hated it,but a few years later I picked up 2 Trojan Compilations "Versions Galore-Vols.2 and 3" from a 2nd hand Shop.There are some good Tracks on it,I include a couple of "Dj" Versions in my Set now.Another thing is,I go more for the "Revival" side of Reggae(Records that came out `71 to `75,my choice)that Skinheads or Suedeheads never caught on to-but older Jamaicans love to hear.The Dj(Mr.Biggs),who have I now worked with.has put me on to some fantastic 45ssmile.gif

 

   Now, by the "Revival" side of Reggae, what exactly do you mean?  Could you provide a top 5 of this stuff?  Not taking the piss here, seriously interested.  

So did the skinhead set not get into this stuff as a whole because they'd moved on to other stuff like the Faces, Glam/Glitter, etc.?  Or was it an ideological sort of clash?  

post #16656 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirryacus View Post

By Skinhead records do you mean stuff such as Skinhead Moonstomp by Symarip etc?

That was the start,then Tunes like "Skinhead Train" and,"Skinhead A Bash Em"to name a couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botolph View Post


Alright, simmer down now! biggrin.gif




   Now, by the "Revival" side of Reggae, what exactly do you mean?  Could you provide a top 5 of this stuff?  Not taking the piss here, seriously interested.  
So did the skinhead set not get into this stuff as a whole because they'd moved on to other stuff like the Faces, Glam/Glitter, etc.?  Or was it an ideological sort of clash?  

Skinheads went more for the gimmicky kind of Records-"Return Of Django","5 To 5","You Can Get It If You Really Want" and others,.Whereas the Jamaicans(outside of the Youth-who were going more towards Roots),there were the beginnings of "Lovers",where it became more soulful.The early Dennis Browns`,Gregory Isaacs etc.show this off.There is not a top 5 like the Skinhead Tunes but go on any Reggae Shop(in the U.K)and they will give you a clue.As I said before it was `71 onwards so Suedeheads were looking towards Soul and early Funk more.The other Groups you talk about came later.
post #16657 of 18946
One of my favourite Dj(who includes "Revival" in his Set,is Gladdy Wax(someone I saw at Margate( last year).
post #16658 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood View Post
 

 

Pretty sure this has been on here before. Another Daily Express photo, this time dated (April 1971) and caption:

 

'Lindsay Newton, 14, from North Salford Girls’ secondary school was one of several pupils who upset their parents and head teacher when they got ‘skin-bird’ haircuts.'


Called the "shaggy dog" in Hull

post #16659 of 18946
Botolph,

It's tricky defining 'revival' reggae exactly as it can mean all things to all people.

It's most commonly used to describe music from 1959/60 up to 79/80 just before the change to 'dancehall' rhythms. Within this timeframe you can find loads of sub-genres and individual small scenes with preferences for certain styles - at a guess what Browniecj might be particularly refering to is the non 'roots' Jamaican vocal tunes from the 71-75 period of which there are literally thousands.

Many are brilliant and appeal accross the board to roots fans, lovers fans and old timers alike, some are definitely on a more sugary, sentimental side beloved of older West Indians and often called 'big peoples music' (try Barry Biggs for instance). Jamaicans have always produced love songs and this continued beyond the 'skinhead' time frame and pre-date what is strictly termed 'lovers' (i.e uk produced lovers vocals from the second half of the seventies).

The reggae scene in England in the early 70s began to fracture a bit, younger kids wanted the emeging new harder, experimental sounds of roots, dub and deejays on the one hand, a more mature crowd often wanted more of the vocals and what would later be termed 'lovers' sounds - and Trojan continually attempted to achieve chart success with endless 'pop reggae' (most of which are abysmal and helped bankrupt the company). Few artists actually confined themselves to one style and usually recorded all kinds of music and many sounds would play accross the range of styles (In fact many sounds would also run some soul/funk tunes in a dance). Its really mid/later 70s onwards that specifically 'roots' sounds started to really make a seperate scene based around 'hard' sounds (with the specific lovers sounds starting but the majority still playing a bit of eveything).

Given the musical options available I get a bit irritated by the received skinhead wisdom that 'the music went shit after 70/71/72' or 'became all about rasta' - I'm more than happy to hear that an individual didnt like it as much after that point but it most certainly didnt 'turn shit' (thats not aimed at anyone here just is something i used to hear said a lot). Anyone that wilfully ignores any music after a given date because the clothes they like were no longer worn is a complete knob in my very humble! (again not directed at anyone here and i cant find the smileys right now).

It's always a matter of dispute how much skins were into reggae (and of course where you were). I wasnt born then so cant give a personal view but it seems safe to say (trying to make this post of some general relevance to the main topic) it was anything from a range of: didnt listen to it/was just the big hits/was the main soundtrack/was a complete obsession that outlasted the fashion.

Anyway here's some early seventies classic 'revival' vocals try these (very definitely NOT a top 5 btw, just a couple as they occur to me over a lunch hour):

4 Jamaican:
Tennors 'Weather Report' (Tennors lead by the fabulous Ronnie Davis)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpqQHPAJoMg
Ronnie Davis 'Lady Love'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy8t6YOTI1A
Freddy McKay 'Our Rendezvous'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKQtJdk_8lM
Dennis Brown 'Baby dont do it'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m98KgJM799Q
1 English:
Jackie Edwards 'I do Love You' (and also try the flip 'Who told you so')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0wVU6YxjdE
p.s Gladdy Wax is great and can be seen and heard on his sound for free at Notting Hill each year on the corner of Portobello Rd and Golbourne Road
Edited by Studio1st - 12/12/13 at 6:38am
post #16660 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio1st View Post

Botolph,

It's tricky defining 'revival' reggae exactly as it can mean all things to all people.

It's most commonly used to describe music from 1959/60 up to 79/80 just before the change to 'dancehall' rhythms. Within this timeframe you can find loads of sub-genres and individual small scenes with preferences for certain styles - at a guess what Browniecj might be particularly refering to is the non 'roots' Jamaican vocal tunes from the 71-75 period of which there are literally thousands.

Many are brilliant and appeal accross the board to roots fans, lovers fans and old timers alike, some are definitely on a more sugary, sentimental side beloved of older West Indians and often called 'big peoples music' (try Barry Biggs for instance). Jamaicans have always produced love songs and this continued beyond the 'skinhead' time frame and pre-date what is strictly termed 'lovers' (i.e uk produced lovers vocals from the second half of the seventies).

The reggae scene in England in the early 70s began to fracture a bit, younger kids wanted the emeging new harder, experimental sounds of roots, dub and deejays on the one hand, a more mature crowd often wanted more of the vocals and what would later be termed 'lovers' sounds - and Trojan continually attempted to achieve chart success with endless 'pop reggae' (most of which are abysmal and helped bankrupt the company). Few artists actually confined themselves to one style and usually recorded all kinds of music and many sounds would play accross the range of styles (In fact many sounds would also run some soul/funk tunes in a dance). Its really mid/later 70s onwards that specifically 'roots' sounds started to really make a seperate scene based around 'hard' sounds (with the specific lovers sounds starting but the majority still playing a bit of eveything).

Given the musical options available I get a bit irritated by the received skinhead wisdom that 'the music went shit after 70/71/72' or 'became all about rasta' - I'm more than happy to hear that an individual didnt like it as much after that point but it most certainly didnt 'turn shit' (thats not aimed at anyone here just is something i used to hear said a lot). Anyone that wilfully ignores any music after a given date because the clothes they like were no longer worn is a complete knob in my very humble! (again not directed at anyone here and i cant find the smileys right now).

It's always a matter of dispute how much skins were into reggae (and of course where you were). I wasnt born then so cant give a personal view but it seems safe to say (trying to make this post of some general relevance to the main topic) it was anything from a range of: didnt listen to it/was just the big hits/was the main soundtrack/was a complete obsession that outlasted the fashion.

Anyway here's some early seventies classic 'revival' vocals try these (very definitely NOT a top 5 btw, just a couple as they occur to me over a lunch hour):

4 Jamaican:
Tennors 'Weather Report' (Tennors lead by the fabulous Ronnie Davis)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpqQHPAJoMg
Ronnie Davis 'Lady Love'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy8t6YOTI1A
Freddy McKay 'Our Rendezvous'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKQtJdk_8lM
Dennis Brown 'Baby dont do it'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m98KgJM799Q
1 English:
Jackie Edwards 'I do Love You' (and also try the flip 'Who told you so')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0wVU6YxjdE
p.s Gladdy Wax is great and can be seen and heard on his sound for free at Notting Hill each year on the corner of Portobello Rd and Golbourne Road

 

 

 

 

Studio1st, thanks for that post!  Well-written, and informative.  


Edited by Botolph - 12/12/13 at 11:43am
post #16661 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio1st View Post

Botolph,

It's tricky defining 'revival' reggae exactly as it can mean all things to all people.

It's most commonly used to describe music from 1959/60 up to 79/80 just before the change to 'dancehall' rhythms. Within this timeframe you can find loads of sub-genres and individual small scenes with preferences for certain styles - at a guess what Browniecj might be particularly refering to is the non 'roots' Jamaican vocal tunes from the 71-75 period of which there are literally thousands.

Many are brilliant and appeal accross the board to roots fans, lovers fans and old timers alike, some are definitely on a more sugary, sentimental side beloved of older West Indians and often called 'big peoples music' (try Barry Biggs for instance). Jamaicans have always produced love songs and this continued beyond the 'skinhead' time frame and pre-date what is strictly termed 'lovers' (i.e uk produced lovers vocals from the second half of the seventies).

The reggae scene in England in the early 70s began to fracture a bit, younger kids wanted the emeging new harder, experimental sounds of roots, dub and deejays on the one hand, a more mature crowd often wanted more of the vocals and what would later be termed 'lovers' sounds - and Trojan continually attempted to achieve chart success with endless 'pop reggae' (most of which are abysmal and helped bankrupt the company). Few artists actually confined themselves to one style and usually recorded all kinds of music and many sounds would play accross the range of styles (In fact many sounds would also run some soul/funk tunes in a dance). Its really mid/later 70s onwards that specifically 'roots' sounds started to really make a seperate scene based around 'hard' sounds (with the specific lovers sounds starting but the majority still playing a bit of eveything).

Given the musical options available I get a bit irritated by the received skinhead wisdom that 'the music went shit after 70/71/72' or 'became all about rasta' - I'm more than happy to hear that an individual didnt like it as much after that point but it most certainly didnt 'turn shit' (thats not aimed at anyone here just is something i used to hear said a lot). Anyone that wilfully ignores any music after a given date because the clothes they like were no longer worn is a complete knob in my very humble! (again not directed at anyone here and i cant find the smileys right now).

It's always a matter of dispute how much skins were into reggae (and of course where you were). I wasnt born then so cant give a personal view but it seems safe to say (trying to make this post of some general relevance to the main topic) it was anything from a range of: didnt listen to it/was just the big hits/was the main soundtrack/was a complete obsession that outlasted the fashion.

Anyway here's some early seventies classic 'revival' vocals try these (very definitely NOT a top 5 btw, just a couple as they occur to me over a lunch hour):

4 Jamaican:
Tennors 'Weather Report' (Tennors lead by the fabulous Ronnie Davis)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpqQHPAJoMg
Ronnie Davis 'Lady Love'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy8t6YOTI1A
Freddy McKay 'Our Rendezvous'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKQtJdk_8lM
Dennis Brown 'Baby dont do it'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m98KgJM799Q
1 English:
Jackie Edwards 'I do Love You' (and also try the flip 'Who told you so')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0wVU6YxjdE
p.s Gladdy Wax is great and can be seen and heard on his sound for free at Notting Hill each year on the corner of Portobello Rd and Golbourne Road

Thank you Studio1st.You have put it very well(I lack IT Skills to back up what I say,with references).I was referring to the non "Roots"Tunes from `71/`75.There are thousands out there,that need to be heard again.Your Choices are spot-on. smile.gif
post #16662 of 18946

So you are telling me you don't like this great 1977 release by the Heptones called Party Time?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx6J2j2mkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prgpls1dgPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9MSmlD8zQc

post #16663 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirryacus View Post

So you are telling me you don't like this great 1977 release by the Heptones called Party Time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycx6J2j2mkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prgpls1dgPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9MSmlD8zQc

A great Tune and there were many,many others.As I stated`71/`75 is my preferred period(it does not mean,if I hear a Tune from later-- I will dismiss it)Honey Boy made a great version of "Dark End Of The Street" from 1977.I have got it as well as others-even from today.
post #16664 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio1st View Post

Botolph,

It's tricky defining 'revival' reggae exactly as it can mean all things to all people.

It's most commonly used to describe music from 1959/60 up to 79/80 just before the change to 'dancehall' rhythms. Within this timeframe you can find loads of sub-genres and individual small scenes with preferences for certain styles - at a guess what Browniecj might be particularly refering to is the non 'roots' Jamaican vocal tunes from the 71-75 period of which there are literally thousands.

Many are brilliant and appeal accross the board to roots fans, lovers fans and old timers alike, some are definitely on a more sugary, sentimental side beloved of older West Indians and often called 'big peoples music' (try Barry Biggs for instance). Jamaicans have always produced love songs and this continued beyond the 'skinhead' time frame and pre-date what is strictly termed 'lovers' (i.e uk produced lovers vocals from the second half of the seventies).

The reggae scene in England in the early 70s began to fracture a bit, younger kids wanted the emeging new harder, experimental sounds of roots, dub and deejays on the one hand, a more mature crowd often wanted more of the vocals and what would later be termed 'lovers' sounds - and Trojan continually attempted to achieve chart success with endless 'pop reggae' (most of which are abysmal and helped bankrupt the company). Few artists actually confined themselves to one style and usually recorded all kinds of music and many sounds would play accross the range of styles (In fact many sounds would also run some soul/funk tunes in a dance). Its really mid/later 70s onwards that specifically 'roots' sounds started to really make a seperate scene based around 'hard' sounds (with the specific lovers sounds starting but the majority still playing a bit of eveything).

Given the musical options available I get a bit irritated by the received skinhead wisdom that 'the music went shit after 70/71/72' or 'became all about rasta' - I'm more than happy to hear that an individual didnt like it as much after that point but it most certainly didnt 'turn shit' (thats not aimed at anyone here just is something i used to hear said a lot). Anyone that wilfully ignores any music after a given date because the clothes they like were no longer worn is a complete knob in my very humble! (again not directed at anyone here and i cant find the smileys right now).

It's always a matter of dispute how much skins were into reggae (and of course where you were). I wasnt born then so cant give a personal view but it seems safe to say (trying to make this post of some general relevance to the main topic) it was anything from a range of: didnt listen to it/was just the big hits/was the main soundtrack/was a complete obsession that outlasted the fashion.

Anyway here's some early seventies classic 'revival' vocals try these (very definitely NOT a top 5 btw, just a couple as they occur to me over a lunch hour):

4 Jamaican:
Tennors 'Weather Report' (Tennors lead by the fabulous Ronnie Davis)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpqQHPAJoMg
Ronnie Davis 'Lady Love'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy8t6YOTI1A
Freddy McKay 'Our Rendezvous'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKQtJdk_8lM
Dennis Brown 'Baby dont do it'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m98KgJM799Q
1 English:
Jackie Edwards 'I do Love You' (and also try the flip 'Who told you so')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0wVU6YxjdE
p.s Gladdy Wax is great and can be seen and heard on his sound for free at Notting Hill each year on the corner of Portobello Rd and Golbourne Road

 

Great post, Studio 1st. I'm certainly no great authority on Reggae but your love and knowledge of the music comes through loud and clear.

 

I suppose what browniecj and I were alluding to was the 'anglicising' of reggae from about 1971 onwards, when some of it was being produced principally for white kids to capitalise on the popularity it enjoyed during the 'skinhead' period. In truth when some of these records were being knocked out there was probably only one Jamaican (the lead vocalist) in the building. It was a million miles away from the raw sound that made it so attractive in the first place and I can't imagine that they had much appeal to the West Indian community in Britain. No doubt great music was still being produced in Jamaica at this time, just that most of us never got to hear it.  This comment applies equally to 'Northern Soul' when the music industry jumped on the bandwaggon and started producing tailor made 'Northern Soul' for the mass market. Most of it wouldn't get the time of day now, yet to lots of people,  these records are what Northern Soul is simply because that is what they heard on the radio at the time.


Edited by roytonboy - 12/13/13 at 12:48am
post #16665 of 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

Little Queenie, I found this a really surprising fact. On what basis were they lampooned? When first buying that book many, many years ago I thought that the drawings were very good (probably the best thing in it, actually). Whilst they didn't fit exactly into the time-scale I would have given and some of the clothes not so widely worn in our area, I just put this down to the old 'time/space continuum' whereby styles changed slightly from region to region and over different periods. The only slight criticism I would have is that the jeans depicted were shorter than I saw worn at the time, generally speaking. (again, could be regional differences?)

 

The reason I posed this question was that I recall the (fairly) recent discussion on illustrations for the book. I'm not quite sure of all of the stated objectives of the book, but I'm pretty sure one of them was to record or make people aware of the original skinhead styles. I suspect good quality photos showing the range of styles in different areas through the 'original' period will be difficult to obtain and illustrations may well be the answer. If that is the case then the quality of these drawings will be what define the book - they are the makings of the Nick Knight book, for example. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the 'Osprey' military history publications.I have bought some prior to trips to Arnhem, The Somme and Normandy for a bit of background reading. The illustrations really are first class and I suspect are the main reason why military history buffs and ... dare I say it..... re-enactors buy them.  Once we are talking about the use of a  professional illustrator, then costs will naturally rise but there could be a useful spin - off in that some of the prints could be sold - I would imagine there would be a minority market for something that is well done. Let's face it, if some of our number find themselves on the cover of a Japanese CD, then there is a demand for pictures of the style somewhere! 

 

Naturally any illustrator is going to need considerable guidance to 'get it right' but this is probably the only opportunity there will be to do this.

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