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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1103

post #16531 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

For once we agree,as you say a large part of the thread is about what 60s teenagers wore,but you are not a teenager are you ? you are a middle aged man so your pictures are not relevant IM ( non skinhead opinion ).
If there was a specific thread for re-enactors,you could post them on there perhaps,I wouldnt be interested to look at such a thread.
I think that this discussion between us should stop and that other people should decide what is relevant to the thread or not,I will abide by any decision that is made.
It’s a public forum, so it attracts different people with different interests, who all want something different out of it. I’m here as a historian, doing some research and join in where I feel its appropriate.
Of course I’m a middle aged man (and not offended by it) hence my use of the phrase “someone dressed as such”.
You can’t possibly want to argue about relevance as I’ve read your last 700 posts. Feel free to read back through them all and decide for yourself.
Anyway, enough of all this, I’ll step back and (hopefully) allow some discussion about 60s style fashion, music and punch-ups.
post #16532 of 18452
I have had a little break from the internet having got unduly hot under the (OCBD) collar on Friday.

Buttons is right that the thread does unravel quite often lately and I'm as guilty as the next poster for going off track. My difficulty, two plus years after joining, is trying to think of new things to say about that golden era. Eventually it dries up. It is almost inevitable in a thread that has been kept going for an unnaturally long time.

There is some merit in breaking things down IMO in the way cerneabbas suggested a few days ago.
post #16533 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botolph View Post


That was definitely a difficult book to digest. Poor writing, convoluted, and just... Well, boring.
With all the talk and hype about that book, you'd think there was some interesting content! Almost as bad as most Richard Allen offerings... In the opinion of a "3rd-waver" anyways.

Also, since it's been a while since I've read the book: did anybody here grow up in the same neighborhoods as set in "the Paint House"?
Not being cheeky here but there's been a lot of talk about style and attitude, alongside the regional differences of skinhead back in the Original™ era. Perhaps this was one area's(albeit skewed by journalists) perspective on things?
For instance, the neighborhood I live in was long associated with racism and bashing of all sorts of minorities and gays(South Boston), where in most parts of New England it isn't really a prevalent thing. Perhaps the attitudes in the Painthouse book were particular to that area?


The book is based on the collingwood estate which was situated behind where the Blind Beggar pub is, near Whitechapel. It was knocked down years ago. My extended family lived further east near the Royal Docks. My mob used to use the pubs in their area (Blind Beggar, Black Boy and a backstreet pub on the collingwood) but didn't know of them unless they also called themselves the Mile End mob but that seems unlikely because the MEM were West Ham supporters and the book claims most of them were Tottenham. Back then they seemed like lying herberts to me but they might have been playing up to the authors' prejudices. Earlier on in the Century many Jewish lived on the Collingwood so that could well explain the Tottenham connection.  It would be ironic if some of those 'Paki bashers' were of Jewish decent but it is quite possible they were. There is a guy on here who calls himself Paint House. Was he one of them?

post #16534 of 18452

Nice cherry reds;)

 

post #16535 of 18452

What was the 'getting wasted' situation in the early days ? Was glue-sniffing as prevalent back in the late '60s/early '70s ? Or was it just booze ? I know the early Mods were famous pill-heads.

I know from '78 onwards round my way, solvent abuse was an epidemic, especially amongst certain Skins. It definitely brought out aggression in those that partook. It looked bloody nasty as well.

The Mod kids seemed to prefer huffing Tippex thinner or Thawpit spot-remover from their sleeves. The Punk kids would inhale Newport butane lighter-gas or CO2 fire extinguishers. The Skinheads were bang into Evo-Stik in a bread bag though.

Different youth sub-cultures seemed to imbibe their solvents differently in my town. Essentially they were all doing the same thing though.

As far as I know, solvent abuse is pretty much extinct with the 21st Century youth. I remember '78-'85 it was ridiculously popular. Then it just kind of disappeared.

I know kids have been 'sniffing stuff' for decades before I can first recall it.(My mum told me about some stuff called Zoff's Plaster Remover that some kids would inhale back in the mid-60s)

post #16536 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Badger View Post

I retrieved my copy of 'The Paint House-words from an east end gang' from the loft in the hope that it might add something to this thread but IMO it still reads as a rubbish book.I bought the book in 1972 when my memories were fresh and remember then being disappointed with it. I blame the authors, and not the kids interviewed, for producing such a crap book.I went to the same pubs and moved in similar circles then but these boys come across as living up to the racist, paki bashing, stereotypical image. No useful data on clothes worn,expressions and slang or even music listened to. A few good references to football violence but not much else. The authors laziness shows through and the misspelling of Dr Martens is a dead giveaway to me.

A fairly typical media interpretation of Skinhead, wouldn't you say, Bob?
post #16537 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

For once we agree,as you say a large part of the thread is about what 60s teenagers wore,but you are not a teenager are you ? you are a middle aged man so your pictures are not relevant IM ( non skinhead opinion ).
If there was a specific thread for re-enactors,you could post them on there perhaps,I wouldnt be interested to look at such a thread.
I think that this discussion between us should stop and that other people should decide what is relevant to the thread or not,I will abide by any decision that is made.

Nothing in that media image of intolerant, aggro-loving Skinheads. You and Buttons should buff up on your skim reading, it really is most useful. Personally, I have no interest in the revival, but every now and then it throws up something that does make for a relevant discussion of the original Skinhead period. Just saying......
post #16538 of 18452

Read up on quite a bit over last hour.

Thoughts :

 

Echo of others re North/South : Surely there was smart dressed lads, bad dressed lads, hard nutcase types and clothing obsessed types. Just because one photo shows it doesnt mean it was all like that. Im sick of this everyone outside of london was a scruffy cnt crap. Im sure there were kids in london who didnt scrub up great either, admittedly the majority would agree that double denim look was more popular more in the north  but suits seemed to be mostly everywhere at one point or another and worn by the right types.

 

Book: Id buy it if it were stories of people from back in the day of weekends out with the lads, what clothes they bought and wore and when etc. lots of pictures. But not as a strictly historical guide as mentioned with jim ferguson and others it is from your own/their perspective. 

 

'Re-enactment'er - used as some sort of slaunder...just because we are sticking to the original stuff worn in context doesn't mean we are completely clueless.theres something about that word thats troubling...A pic of someone in original get up is more interesting to me then a picture of a cat and more relevant..These 'younger' lot are keeping the flame burning maybe the older generation should realize that. If we arent going to bother with the details and getting it right, then lets just buy any generic overcoat from M&S a button down, hey presto there we go. nailed it....

 

two pennys.

post #16539 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

What was the 'getting wasted' situation in the early days ? Was glue-sniffing as prevalent back in the late '60s/early '70s ? Or was it just booze ? I know the early Mods were famous pill-heads.

I was sort of curious about this as well but I always deemed it a more taboo subject I assume they took the same legal speed as they blatantly market to the club scene as "diet pills" today or was it really the hard illegal stuff?

post #16540 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Queenie View Post


A fairly typical media interpretation of Skinhead, wouldn't you say, Bob?


Indeed, Little Queenie. By the way, I thought your post a few pages back was very perceptive.

post #16541 of 18452

i remember the Mile End mob from west ham .. older and more organised than any other firm of the era .. they sung 'Mile end ' to the snow white 'Hi Ho ' tune - quite sureal turning Disney into a ultra violent ditty

post #16542 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

What was the 'getting wasted' situation in the early days ? Was glue-sniffing as prevalent back in the late '60s/early '70s ? Or was it just booze ? I know the early Mods were famous pill-heads.

I know from '78 onwards round my way, solvent abuse was an epidemic, especially amongst certain Skins. It definitely brought out aggression in those that partook. It looked bloody nasty as well.

The Mod kids seemed to prefer huffing Tippex thinner or Thawpit spot-remover from their sleeves. The Punk kids would inhale Newport butane lighter-gas or CO2 fire extinguishers. The Skinheads were bang into Evo-Stik in a bread bag though.

Different youth sub-cultures seemed to imbibe their solvents differently in my town. Essentially they were all doing the same thing though.

As far as I know, solvent abuse is pretty much extinct with the 21st Century youth. I remember '78-'85 it was ridiculously popular. Then it just kind of disappeared.

I know kids have been 'sniffing stuff' for decades before I can first recall it.(My mum told me about some stuff called Zoff's Plaster Remover that some kids would inhale back in the mid-60s)

i think your mixing up a bunch of parafins with lads who spent a weeks wages on shoes mate

post #16543 of 18452
The folks here in my little neck of N.London took speed right through the 60's, but not to 'get wasted'. It was taken so they could stay up and dance all night...blah...blah...blah...a cliche, but all true!

The pills (Bennies) were for recreational use only, they were weekend users and didn't get involved in any dealing or any 'heavier' drugs.

The local drug use could be a leftover from them being older (ex) Mods, however I've heard it said that a lot of Skinheads were anti-drugs, that can't be true?
post #16544 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunty View Post

The folks here in my little neck of N.London took speed right through the 60's, but not to 'get wasted'. It was taken so they could stay up and dance all night...blah...blah...blah...a cliche, but all true!

The pills (Bennies) were for recreational use only, they were weekend users and didn't get involved in any dealing or any 'heavier' drugs.

The local drug use could be a leftover from them being older (ex) Mods, however I've heard it said that a lot of Skinheads were anti-drugs, that can't be true?

I don't remember any drugs-proper with anyone I knew. But a couple of the lads I knew that were quite well turned in the beginning who later got on the glue became right states. They got pretty mean and unpredictable too. A lot of kids dabbled, but the ones that got bang into it became proper nutters.

That's why I asked about the prevalence of the whole solvents issue pre '79, as it seemed to me a relatively new phenomenon at the time and a pain in the arse. My old dear would always check me for glue etc. after I'd been out, and ask me if I'd been hanging around with certain known glue-heads. As we know, there's nothing new under the sun. So I was wondering whether it was my generation that had it bad for the solvents, or did it go back further.

post #16545 of 18452
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDermott View Post


'Re-enactment'er - used as some sort of slaunder...just because we are sticking to the original stuff worn in context doesn't mean we are completely clueless.theres something about that word thats troubling.

I agree.it brings up a picture of people who dress up for a day or two here and there.Regardless of when you we're inspired by the look or however you interpret it.I will never be what I was 45 years ago and I do not kid myself otherwise,but for anyone who chooses to adopt the style and carry it on,it is a derogatory comment IMO.
I can't help but be respectful of generations of kids who want to plunder the past and find their own identity.I can't help but feel dismayed when they don't see things as I did at the end of the sixties-it was the best three years of my life,.....until I discovered the Faces ;.-)
Of course I wish everything was as I remember it,and felt the same about that time as I did,but my experience was mine - personal.If that has made a connection with other on the Forum then you know what I mean,if it hasn't then I'm sorry and only hope that you really do have that special few years in your youth that gives you the fond memories that it did me ( and I had a number ).Most kids experimented with how they looked around the time they reached Secondary Modern.These days there's a lot more choices and a lot of distractions.For me there were very few,...actually none.
Everyone I knew (looked up to) came from Mod.
it has been a pleasure trawling through my latent memory bank and reading from others with similar experiences.Being branded a liar by someone who doesn't know me or who was still in Nappies back in the Sixties came as a rude awakening as to what participating in an open Forum can entail..Cest la vie.
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