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Mod to Suedehead - Page 1098

post #16456 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
 

Thanks for the interesting info. They really are the Burwood's twin sister. Hope they fit somewhere in the "mod to suedehead" timeline...

They might do but I'm not bothered, of course....

post #16457 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Queenie View Post


I'm smiling! If it is just an extension of Mod (that's certainly how I see it) then surely it has the same legacy as Mod? When I was a kid, I would look at photos of my parents in the '60's: how smart and stylish they looked (they knocked about with Mods, but didn't feel the need for a label) and then at how they looked in the '70's. Similarly with my dad's Rolling Stones LP covers: it struck me that the '60's were the last time people were truly smart, and what I term 'sharp'. Anyone who lived through the '70's must see it as the decade that accelerated the decline into today's sloppy dressing and attitudes. Of course this social change started in the '60's, but, in this period of flux, there was still the vestiges of the old world: of pride in your appearance, of grooming, of standards. If you view Skinheads, with their short (in all its guises) hair, their short trousers and sharp style they are like the last hurrah of a dying age that was descending into scruffiness. Look at how we were commenting a few pages back about the media viewing the '60's through the lens of flowerpower: the start of the rot. This is just the way I view it, but to me growing up, the halcyon days of the late '60's, before everything was ruined, have an incredibly nostalgic appeal and I think the Skinheads, through their carrying on of the Mod flame, hung on to this style and sharpness whilst the world around them was disintegrating into the chaos of the 'anything goes' world we live in now.

Little Queenie, you know I always love your eloquent and insightful posts and this one especially appeals to me.  I agree with everything you say.

 

The skinhead that I knew and the one described by Robert Elms who looked as though he just had his hair cut that day and every day, because he was just so smart; that is the successor to the Mod who carried the torch until it was extinguished some time around 1971.

 

I have often tried here to draw a strong likeness between the skinhead and the true Dandy (not the cartoon character despised by John Bull).   It happens I was flicking through one of my favourite books the other day - 'Fashion Writing' edited by Judith Watt.  It is a wonderful read as many of you will know, I'm sure.  Chapter 7 on Dandies and Aesthetes deals with the way each has been portrayed down the years in literature.  The true Dandy is seen as providing the final spark of heroism in periods of social transition.  He is someone who sees 'exquisite simplicity' as perfection.  What I had not remembered about the book is that Watt mentions Beau Brummel, the Duke of Windsor and the Suedehead in almost the same breath.  All of them Dandies, all of them providing that last spark.

 

We have descended into a truly ugly world - whether we are looking at the fat git with his tattooed wife in Morrison's (as I did earlier today) or whether we are looking at a pair of £700 shoes on Mr Porter worn with the wrong trousers, it's all the same.  A total lack of any aesthetic sensibility.

 

OK I am not quite as nostalgic for the late 1960s as Little Queenie because I do remember the less attractive aspects of 60s life but I have never lived in an age like today where ugliness was so universal.  That is why I go to Italy as often as I can afford to (IMO the last bastion of style) and try to cling on to my dandyism - its all I have.


Edited by Mr Knightley - 11/29/13 at 8:04am
post #16458 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basset View Post
 


I wouldn't worry i doubt any of the punters over there will know what it is these days, valley boys can be a right handfull i know that much.

Thinking about it, it's no great surprise that theres always been needle, Bristols a pretty big city right on the border, a quick drive across the bridge, boom another country, thats always gonna equal game on for some.

 

POW check, very nice, my suits got the sky blue overcheck, and i've seen the others you mention, and also a cream/brown version, as for what was worn back in say 70, i cant comment as i was still having me arse wiped for me in all honesty, and would only have been interested if they were shorts :D

Mostly with the blue over-check in 69/70 - some red, mainly in autumn / winter as it gives a warmer look.

post #16459 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

I will be interested in your comments on those pictures as I will be interested in roytonboys or elwoods comments.
I only had one experience of seeing Northern skinheads in 1970,at the Swindon v Leeds fa cup match...I remember white plimsolls ( to get into the ground ) heavy boots ( maybe steel toe caps put on inside ground ),jeans with turn ups,navy blue jacket ( whats now called a monkey jacket ) with striped cuffs and around collar,or donkey jacket ( it was cold )and white/gold /blue scarf.

So much to catch up on here this last few days ... but as you ask, cerneabbas, I agree with roytonboy that the controversial "Northerner" on the left was a look to be commonly seen in Manchester in late 1969. And for what it's worth, I quite like the style of the drawings (only personal taste, I know).
post #16460 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

My mum said that I was going to be a convict ! ( wrong...so far ).
I agree that the thread has been a bit more lively lately.
When did aerosol graffitti start to appear in your area ?,I know that it was vandalism but I was always looking out for it,later in the 70s I went by bus to SE London and saw the George Davis is innocent stuff everywhere.

My recollection is that in the Manchester area it was probably 1970. Before that, I do remember seeing football graffiti that had been clearly painted with a brush (white paint in six-inch wide strokes) around about 1968. (That must have taken some doing, going out with a bucket of whitewash. And I'm also old enough - although I was only a sprog at the time - to remember "Ban The Bomb" and the CND symbol painted on walls.)

The first spray-painted graffiti I remember seeing was up the stairway at Prestwich station on the line into Manchester, after City won the European Cup Winners' Cup in May 1970. "MCFC ECWC Winners 1969/70" (quite a mouthful really) was on that wall for a good while, certainly into the 80s. A long time since I was there so don't know if it's survived.
post #16461 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

 As I remember, all the trousers had the over check. (I could be wrong on that one, I saw Harringtons with no over check). Mostly red by us to go with the red socks. Not for me, of course. I had the sky blue. Someone once told me, years later, that technically it can only be described as Prince of Wales check if it has the red over check. When I told him mine had the blue he said "Oh, that's ......." but I can't remember what he called it!

My own had the red overcheck, as you say rotytonboy, to go with red socks - and I had that even though I'm a Blue. But I did see the plain POW with no coloured line. My best mate had a plain pair - and he was a Red. So for us, the football connotations of the colour weren't too significant. (Unlike now, when I don't think I even possess a red piece of clothing smile.gif )
post #16462 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basset View Post
 


I wouldn't worry i doubt any of the punters over there will know what it is these days, valley boys can be a right handfull i know that much.

Thinking about it, it's no great surprise that theres always been needle, Bristols a pretty big city right on the border, a quick drive across the bridge, boom another country, thats always gonna equal game on for some.

 

POW check, very nice, my suits got the sky blue overcheck, and i've seen the others you mention, and also a cream/brown version, as for what was worn back in say 70, i cant comment as i was still having me arse wiped for me in all honesty, and would only have been interested if they were shorts :D

Funny that you mentioned the cream / brown type,I saw a jacket in that material today in Cardiff ( with pale blue overcheck ) no trousers though or I would have had them,I don't remember seeing that colour before ,I just looked online and they do a suit with the red overcheck but its not as nice looking IMO,also a while back I saw navy blue POW check suit,I never saw that in the 70s either.

post #16463 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneflewover View Post
 

Definitely around up here in Hull, known as Tonic's. I could never afford them though.

We called them tonics too,in fact I think that's how they were advertised in Austins and we definitely asked for tonics.

Can you remember what colours you saw ?.

post #16464 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Funny that you mentioned the cream / brown type,I saw a jacket in that material today in Cardiff ( with pale blue overcheck ) no trousers though or I would have had them,I don't remember seeing that colour before ,I just looked online and they do a suit with the red overcheck but its not as nice looking IMO,also a while back I saw navy blue POW check suit,I never saw that in the 70s either.

When I was looking at cloth with my tailor for the recent POW trou project he showed me a vast range of 'Prince of Wales' materials from the very standard ones we are all familiar with to dark navy and other dark colours (I think brown was among them).  I have an M&S 'Italian' suit in what my other tailor calls 'shadow check' I believe, but which could be called POW too:

 

post #16465 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post
 

When I was looking at cloth with my tailor for the recent POW trou project he showed me a vast range of 'Prince of Wales' materials from the very standard ones we are all familiar with to dark navy and other dark colours (I think brown was among them).  I have an M&S 'Italian' suit in what my other tailor calls 'shadow check' I believe, but which could be called POW too:

 

I forgot to mention the name of the jacket,it was by Paul Costelloe,I thought that it looked good,they are online,I have an M and S pair of trousers similar to your suit,I was wearing them today.

post #16466 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post

Little Queenie, you know I always love your eloquent and insightful posts and this one especially appeals to me.  I agree with everything you say.

The skinhead that I knew and the one described by Robert Elms who looked as though he just had his hair cut that day and every day, because he was just so smart; that is the successor to the Mod who carried the torch until it was extinguished some time around 1971.

I have often tried here to draw a strong likeness between the skinhead and the true Dandy (not the cartoon character despised by John Bull).   It happens I was flicking through one of my favourite books the other day - 'Fashion Writing' edited by Judith Watt.  It is a wonderful read as many of you will know, I'm sure.  Chapter 7 on Dandies and Aesthetes deals with the way each has been portrayed down the years in literature.  The true Dandy is seen as providing the final spark of heroism in periods of social transition.  He is someone who sees 'exquisite simplicity' as perfection.  What I had not remembered about the book is that Watt mentions Beau Brummel, the Duke of Windsor and the Suedehead in almost the same breath.  All of them Dandies, all of them providing that last spark.

We have descended into a truly ugly world - whether we are looking at the fat git with his tattooed wife in Morrison's (as I did earlier today) or whether we are looking at a pair of £700 shoes on Mr Porter worn with the wrong trousers, it's all the same.  A total lack of any aesthetic sensibility.

OK I am not quite as nostalgic for the late 1960s as Little Queenie because I do remember the less attractive aspects of 60s life but I have never lived in an age like today where ugliness was so universal.  That is why I go to Italy as often as I can afford to (IMO the last bastion of style) and try to cling on to my dandyism - its all I have.

Thank-you Mr. K, I thought I could rely on you to empathise with my viewpoint.

I have just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon, I shall enjoy reading it!

I couldn't agree more: I find the modern-day world quite depressing in its ugliness and, although perhaps my view of the '60's is a trifle romanticised, it provides a balm against the utter lack of decorum and style that seems to populate the world today.
post #16467 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post
 

Little Queenie, you know I always love your eloquent and insightful posts and this one especially appeals to me.  I agree with everything you say.

 

The skinhead that I knew and the one described by Robert Elms who looked as though he just had his hair cut that day and every day, because he was just so smart; that is the successor to the Mod who carried the torch until it was extinguished some time around 1971.

 

I have often tried here to draw a strong likeness between the skinhead and the true Dandy (not the cartoon character despised by John Bull).   It happens I was flicking through one of my favourite books the other day - 'Fashion Writing' edited by Judith Watt.  It is a wonderful read as many of you will know, I'm sure.  Chapter 7 on Dandies and Aesthetes deals with the way each has been portrayed down the years in literature.  The true Dandy is seen as providing the final spark of heroism in periods of social transition.  He is someone who sees 'exquisite simplicity' as perfection.  What I had not remembered about the book is that Watt mentions Beau Brummel, the Duke of Windsor and the Suedehead in almost the same breath.  All of them Dandies, all of them providing that last spark.

 

We have descended into a truly ugly world - whether we are looking at the fat git with his tattooed wife in Morrison's (as I did earlier today) or whether we are looking at a pair of £700 shoes on Mr Porter worn with the wrong trousers, it's all the same.  A total lack of any aesthetic sensibility.

 

OK I am not quite as nostalgic for the late 1960s as Little Queenie because I do remember the less attractive aspects of 60s life but I have never lived in an age like today where ugliness was so universal.  That is why I go to Italy as often as I can afford to (IMO the last bastion of style) and try to cling on to my dandyism - its all I have.

A post that I can sympathise with,but quite sad ( and true ) IMO.

I can recognise that smart skinhead that you describe,and he is the basis of the look that I want to build on and move into this ( styleless ) century.

I also recognise the ugliness of the world that we live in,where everything from architecture to eating out is all about the bottom line and this has influenced peoples (lack of ) style,as I mentioned before the biggest shop in the city that I live in is Primark !

Nostalgia for the 1960s is strongest amongst those who didn't actually experience it,getting up and making the fire ( because there was no central heating ) putting carpet underlay over the cistern in the outside toilet,the 2 cars in your street being started with starting handles in the winter,power cuts,pubs closing at 10.30 etc etc...

I also like the styles in Italy ( although I have seen places in Italy that I wouldn't want to live ) that simple style that some of the women wear and they make look so good.

I hope that you don't get too "down" about it all,push on ,maybe start a new thread about where we go now stylewise ? .

post #16468 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood View Post


My recollection is that in the Manchester area it was probably 1970. Before that, I do remember seeing football graffiti that had been clearly painted with a brush (white paint in six-inch wide strokes) around about 1968. (That must have taken some doing, going out with a bucket of whitewash. And I'm also old enough - although I was only a sprog at the time - to remember "Ban The Bomb" and the CND symbol painted on walls.)

The first spray-painted graffiti I remember seeing was up the stairway at Prestwich station on the line into Manchester, after City won the European Cup Winners' Cup in May 1970. "MCFC ECWC Winners 1969/70" (quite a mouthful really) was on that wall for a good while, certainly into the 80s. A long time since I was there so don't know if it's survived.

Thanks for your memories on this,I think that the aerosol spray graffiti started to appear here about the same time,I think that it caught on as the tin was convenient to put in your pocket ( and probably easy to steal ) and that the spraying could be done quite quickly.

The oldest graffiti that I saw was between Earls Court and Chelseas ground ( from the 1930s ) and here on a brick wall by Temple Meads railway station ...End the war in Korea....wall and graffiti gone now.

post #16469 of 18562

I was looking for a pair of sky-blue sta prest. The only place that seemed to do a decent pair was JTG. Whilst perusing their other stock I found these

Airwair Monks made by Solovair. Different. Made excusively for Jump the Gun apparently.

post #16470 of 18562
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

A post that I can sympathise with,but quite sad ( and true ) IMO.

I can recognise that smart skinhead that you describe,and he is the basis of the look that I want to build on and move into this ( styleless ) century.

I also recognise the ugliness of the world that we live in,where everything from architecture to eating out is all about the bottom line and this has influenced peoples (lack of ) style,as I mentioned before the biggest shop in the city that I live in is Primark !

Nostalgia for the 1960s is strongest amongst those who didn't actually experience it,getting up and making the fire ( because there was no central heating ) putting carpet underlay over the cistern in the outside toilet,the 2 cars in your street being started with starting handles in the winter,power cuts,pubs closing at 10.30 etc etc...

I also like the styles in Italy ( although I have seen places in Italy that I wouldn't want to live ) that simple style that some of the women wear and they make look so good.

I hope that you don't get too "down" about it all,push on ,maybe start a new thread about where we go now stylewise ? .

No, I'm cool - sitting with me Russian Blue on my lap 'working at home'!

Photo: 'Working at home' assisted by Trotsky cat!

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