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post #16261 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

That's the first time I ever heard of Tonik Levis Sta-Prest? What combo's did they do?

I remember green / black and blue / black also a dark red / black and bronze /black...I think that's all I saw.

post #16262 of 18770

Were they common  around Bristol 70-71? We had Toniks everywhere but not Levis that I know of?

post #16263 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

roytonboy...I remember the older lads ( 16 / 17 maybe 18 ) would have had suits ,to go to the Top Rank etc,but you make a good point ,did they regard themselves as skinheads ?.

I always differentiate between skinhead ( as street style,boots jeans and fairisles ) and what I call ( now ) smart skinhead / suedehead,thats brogues or loafers,two tone trousers and blazer or Crombie or a suit.....but that's me looking back not how it would have been regarded at the time ?.

You mention "tonik" trousers,now to us that was Levi sta prest two tone trousers,but we also referred to say a two tone raincoat as a "tonik raincoat",I know now that's wrong but we were young lads and just copied what we heard others say,you mention two tone suits and I wondered if Levis ever made a jacket to go with the trousers ?.

As you say the term "hard mod " wasn't used then but now looking back at the period as history we can see a progression ?,but as has been said before here ,local variations make a timescale a bit difficult....all IMO.

 

cernabbas - If you can bear with me,  I intend to address this with a later post. For now I'm interested in whether people feel they were initially just following the latest 'Mod' fashion or whether they regarded 'skinhead' as a separate thing. I do agree with your comments regarding local variations and this is where I think there might be some points of discussion/disagreement. 

 

The tonik trousers were two tone material. To be honest, I never thought of them as Levi Sta-prest, just trousers. 

post #16264 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post
 

Were they common  around Bristol 70-71? We had Toniks everywhere but not Levis that I know of?

Yes they were common and you could get away with wearing the blue / black ones to school,I am thinking that the green ones were green / brown and not green / black...the shop for everything Levi in Bristol was Austins.

post #16265 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

cernabbas - If you can bear with me,  I intend to address this with a later post. For now I'm interested in whether people feel they were initially just following the latest 'Mod' fashion or whether they regarded 'skinhead' as a separate thing. I do agree with your comments regarding local variations and this is where I think there might be some points of discussion/disagreement. 

 

 

 As an example, photographic evidence suggest that there were not many skinheads in London (or that it was a very short lived thing) Most photos from the capital which supposedly show 'skinheads' depict very few people with skinhead cuts. The group of lads walking past the seated hippies is a rare exception.

post #16266 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 As an example, photographic evidence suggest that there were not many skinheads in London (or that it was a very short lived thing) Most photos from the capital which supposedly show 'skinheads' depict very few people with skinhead cuts. The group of lads walking past the seated hippies is a rare exception.

I have always thought that it would be great if there were more people on this thread from outlying areas Plymouth,Cardiff  even Scousers ( gulp ),to give a better overview of how things were.

Whilst I like the London ( and SE counties ) contribution,their easy access to the Ivy shop etc has skewed things in favour of the smarter  ( or softer,as someone else said ) side of skinhead,rather than the boots and braces look.

For instance most of the London ( area ) blokes have said that they didn't wear / see fairisles and I am sure that was a pretty general item elsewhere ?

Although NOW I prefer the smarter look ( as its generally more age appropriate ),I did used to like the "street" style,especially for football.

All IMO.

post #16267 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Clouseau....Heres that picture from a few pages back,its a bit more clear,I increased the size to try and read the writing on the big building in the background ( but I cant make it out ).
I notice that at the top it says walesonline so I had a look there but I couldn't find anything.
On the picture that you posted it mentions a 3 part story on football hooliganism,if I knew the date of that paper I could have a look in the central library here,maybe there are more pictures in the other parts of the article.

I think it's on East Street and that's the old Robinson paper bag factory in the background (but I might be wrong). As you said it first appeared in the Western Daily Press in August 1971 at the start of the new football season, ironically seeing as the photo shows City fans fighting the three part series focussed more on the Tote End with the first installment carrying the headline 'The Lore of the Tote End mob':

‘MEET THE TOTE END MOB, third in Soccer’s League of Violence (newspapers loved these leagues of violence, see Chapter 9). Bristol Rovers are their idols. And if the team gets beaten on the pitch this screaming army of followers will win on the terraces.
Behind the goal, at the popular end of every football ground in the Third Division, is their battlefield. Here they wage war on rival skinhead supporters, awarding their own fearsome points system. And this young mob, with their steel-capped boots and cropped hair proudly boast: “We are third in the league.” But this league of terror has nothing to do with sport. It causes havoc to every club in Britain which is fighting the new frightening wave of football hooliganism 1971-72 style.’

City played Cardiff at home in August 1969 and August 1970 so it could be either of those dates. There was always bad feeling between the two clubs and I can remember going to Ninian Park for a night game in 1972 when Rovers played the Bluebirds and several City fans travelled with us (unheard of these days) to help us out against them.

The other two instalments weren't so good if I recall and I think they concentrated more on West Country Hells Angels. I have got photocopies of the originals somewhere and other headlines from that era also appear in Booted and Suited (shameless plug biggrin.gif ) and can be seen on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Booted-Suited-Chris-Brown/dp/1844547469
post #16268 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

I remember green / black and blue / black also a dark red / black and bronze /black...I think that's all I saw.

The most commonest ones were blue/maroon which gave a very nice purple look, I had the blue/black. I've mentioned another make as well previously which I think was CT, think they only sold them in Rodney Thomas so maybe they were their own brand?
post #16269 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

I have always thought that it would be great if there were more people on this thread from outlying areas Plymouth,Cardiff  even Scousers ( gulp ),to give a better overview of how things were.

Whilst I like the London ( and SE counties ) contribution,their easy access to the Ivy shop etc has skewed things in favour of the smarter  ( or softer,as someone else said ) side of skinhead,rather than the boots and braces look.

For instance most of the London ( area ) blokes have said that they didn't wear / see fairisles and I am sure that was a pretty general item elsewhere ?

Although NOW I prefer the smarter look ( as its generally more age appropriate ),I did used to like the "street" style,especially for football.

All IMO.

 

The first item of 'skinhead' clothing I bought was a fairisle sleeveless. I can even remember where I bought it. If I were ever to dress as an 'original' now, it would be in plain BD, Fairisle, Levi's and steel toed boots - just as I did back in '69 (only my boots then didn't have toe-caps). To me, much more authentic than the now ubiquitous check-shirt and braces, Levis and cherry red Doc Martens. 

 

Fairisles worn in Bristol and Lancashire, so it's a fair bet they were in evidence in most places in between.

 

Other items of 'original' clothing were pale, thin striped Oxford weave BDs and plain v-neck pullovers. 

 

There is probably a whole other debate to be had on the meaning of the words "original skinhead" (though could be part of the  'is skinhead really just mod' debate)

post #16270 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure_Drop View Post


I think it's on East Street and that's the old Robinson paper bag factory in the background (but I might be wrong). As you said it first appeared in the Western Daily Press in August 1971 at the start of the new football season, ironically seeing as the photo shows City fans fighting the three part series focussed more on the Tote End with the first installment carrying the headline 'The Lore of the Tote End mob':

‘MEET THE TOTE END MOB, third in Soccer’s League of Violence (newspapers loved these leagues of violence, see Chapter 9). Bristol Rovers are their idols. And if the team gets beaten on the pitch this screaming army of followers will win on the terraces.
Behind the goal, at the popular end of every football ground in the Third Division, is their battlefield. Here they wage war on rival skinhead supporters, awarding their own fearsome points system. And this young mob, with their steel-capped boots and cropped hair proudly boast: “We are third in the league.” But this league of terror has nothing to do with sport. It causes havoc to every club in Britain which is fighting the new frightening wave of football hooliganism 1971-72 style.’

City played Cardiff at home in August 1969 and August 1970 so it could be either of those dates. There was always bad feeling between the two clubs and I can remember going to Ninian Park for a night game in 1972 when Rovers played the Bluebirds and several City fans travelled with us (unheard of these days) to help us out against them.

The other two instalments weren't so good if I recall and I think they concentrated more on West Country Hells Angels. I have got photocopies of the originals somewhere and other headlines from that era also appear in Booted and Suited (shameless plug biggrin.gif ) and can be seen on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Booted-Suited-Chris-Brown/dp/1844547469

Hard to tell where that picture is taken,anyway a lot of that part of Bristol has been demolished and "improved",I notice that in town they are now knocking down the 70s ( improvement ) buildings !

Your post made me remember going to Cardiff mid 70s and a City lad from Lawrence Weston came with us ( a mate of Toppers ) big hefty bloke,he had City tattooed on the back of his hand and he wore a big plaster over it that day....

You must remember Two tone Levi sta prest ?....did they do a jacket so that you could wear it as a suit  ?.

post #16271 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Hard to tell where that picture is taken,anyway a lot of that part of Bristol has been demolished and "improved",I notice that in town they are now knocking down the 70s ( improvement ) buildings !
Your post made me remember going to Cardiff mid 70s and a City lad from Lawrence Weston came with us ( a mate of Toppers ) big hefty bloke,he had City tattooed on the back of his hand and he wore a big plaster over it that day....
You must remember Two tone Levi sta prest ?....did they do a jacket so that you could wear it as a suit  ?.

Never, ever remember a Levi Two Tone jacket, and if they did one I wouldn't wear it. What was popular was light brown needle cord jackets, exactly same style as the denim ones, think Levis, Lee Cooper and Wrangler all made them, mine was Lee Cooper, so much more stylish than wearing double denim.

Incidentally Topper is not a well man these days and virtually housebound.
post #16272 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post
 

 

The first item of 'skinhead' clothing I bought was a fairisle sleeveless. I can even remember where I bought it. If I were ever to dress as an 'original' now, it would be in plain BD, Fairisle, Levi's and steel toed boots - just as I did back in '69 (only my boots then didn't have toe-caps). To me, much more authentic than the now ubiquitous check-shirt and braces, Levis and cherry red Doc Martens.

 

Fairisles worn in Bristol and Lancashire, so it's a fair bet they were in evidence in most places in between.

 

Other items of 'original' clothing were pale, thin striped Oxford weave BDs and plain v-neck pullovers.

 

There is probably a whole other debate to be had on the meaning of the words "original skinhead" (though could be part of the  'is skinhead really just mod' debate)

I find it hard to remember a timescale for what was worn,I would add corduroy Levi jackets to your list,and grandad vests.....this is before harringtons and sta prest.

post #16273 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure_Drop View Post


Never, ever remember a Levi Two Tone jacket, and if they did one I wouldn't wear it. What was popular was light brown needle cord jackets, exactly same style as the denim ones, think Levis, Lee Cooper and Wrangler all made them, mine was Lee Cooper, so much more stylish than wearing double denim.

Incidentally Topper is not a well man these days and virtually housebound.

I remember the cord jackets,particuarly Levi ones in a Stone / beige colour.

Sorry to hear that about Topper,he was to young to be an original skinhead,and when I first met him in 75 ? he had long hair...but then he had a number one, started wearing skinhead clothes ( even though they were well out of fashion ) and kept his head shaved until I last saw him about 5 years ago.

post #16274 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

Well, there are two conflicting schools of thought on this, both touched on already. As a skinhead, back in '69/70, I certainly didn't consider myself a Mod. Although I had been wearing some aspects of the style for a few months previously I took a conscious decision to become 'a skinhead'. This involved going to have a skinhead haircut - the defining feature of a skinhead. In fact, back then, if someone did not have the haircut, I did not regard them as a skinhead, regardless of the clothes they wore. To me being a skinhead involved wearing Levi's ('though Wranglers were also acceptable) held up with braces and boots. The lads  in the recently posted Western Mail photo encapsulated the look I aspired to - plain BD shirt with fair-isle sleeveless pull-over. (and yes, I did occasionally go out with braces showing - but only rarely and only in the early days) I was regarded as a skinhead, and was proud to be so. My sister had been a Mod but she was 7 years older than me and I didn't aspire to be like her - I wanted 'my own' identity, or at least that of my peers. Outside of school I virtually lived in Levi's and boots and wore these 'socially' for 2 years.. When I first started to go to the local Soul club, I wore the same clothes, only exchanging boots for brogues. All the lads there were dressed the same. Some of the older lads were even wearing boots. This was in late 1970. To be a bit more 'formally dressed' I would wear light coloured sta-prest and brogues. No one wore a suit. A suit was something you had to wear for a family wedding or funeral, and then you'd have a face like a smacked backside because of it. The only time I saw someone wearing a suit was Brian Parkinson who was 4 years older than me and I'm not even sure he would have regarded himself as a 'skinhead' - we would recognise him now as a 'hard mod' but of course that term didn't even exist then. This would have been late 1968 or early 1969. Reading through previous posts on this forum, there has been mention from time to time about suits - even made to measure suits - well, some of you must be from a higher social strata from me as this was completely unheard of amongst people I knew. I surprised someone quite recently by saying that back in the skinhead era I never saw anyone in a tone-tone suit. It simply wasn't on our radar. We didn't even start wearing 'tonik' trousers until well into 1971 when 'skinhead' was on the wane. Some people on this site wore suits but from what I can see there are far more mods on here than skinheads. That's not a crticism, some of you a rightly proud of your mod past. Maybe some people feel that having their hair cut a bit shorter  a couple of times in 1969 when it was trendy makes them a skinhead. A lad in our class at school decided to have a skinhead haircut late in 1969 when it was really catching on, nationwide. I clearly remember him turning up at Maine Road after having it done that morning. Jeans turned up, big, heavy 'bovver boots' on his feet. Sadly, he had big sticky out ears and glasses and looked a right #%8&! He knew it too and spent the whole afternoon with his parka hood pulled up and his head dejectedly in his hands, leaning on a barrier. I don't think he had his hair cut for months afterwards, until it became shoulder length and by the start of 1970 he was walking around  in flared jeans and trainers. He could legitimately claim to have been a skinhead in 1969, but he wasn't really and no-one from our class at the time would even remember him as one. Skinheads did have some similarities with Mods, just as Rockers had some similarities with Teddy Boys, but I viewed the two as separate entities.


I do like a bit of cats and pigeons. So, what is your precise definition of a Skinhead haircut? When you say you viewed Skinhead as being something separate from Mod, is that still how you see things or has the luxury of hindsight altered your perspective?
post #16275 of 18770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure_Drop View Post


The most commonest ones were blue/maroon which gave a very nice purple look, I had the blue/black. I've mentioned another make as well previously which I think was CT, think they only sold them in Rodney Thomas so maybe they were their own brand?

Rodney Thomas "the shirt shop" in the Arcade ?,I think that they had a shop by Trinity church as well.

I don't remember their Sta prest,I do remember that they had all the bright check Brutus shirts,the top pocket "handkerchief" on cardboard ( all colours ) and for the Teds fluorescent socks,it was quite a colourful place....

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