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post #14551 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post

Perhaps in hindsight,  I shouldnt of said, if i was an original Skinhead, I would now be an old bastard, some may have taken offence....just my sense of humour!!!!

Cerneabbas. you are correct, I did mean...we didn't know what was going on in London....not, we didn't care what was going on .....although I shouldn't of put we, I should of put....I didnt know!....but I was only 12 in 1979, I was just happy to be part of Jerry Dammers 2tone army, most 12 years olds are just putting cap guns and bow and arrows away, I dont believe many of that age are that fashion concious, that they would want to be one step head of the competion, with clothes.

Also your question of Stoke fans and clay and razor blades, I have heard something along these lines, though clay and nails, not razors, though never seen this, I would say it is feasable, but not with soft potters wheel clay.... in potbanks (factories), the clay comes in heavy blocks, which are then put into a large mixing machine that turns the clay into a liquid form called Slip, which is piped to an area, where it is poured into plaster moulds.... where the blocks come in, is called the clay end, and it is hard heavy work and I can imagine the blokes in there, would do a lot of pissing around, throwing the clay at each other etc, so , I could see, that somebody would come up with the idea of setting nails/razors into a small ball, perhaps the size of the a golf ball and then  letting the clay dry out and then taking these down to  the Vale or Stoke.....as for weapons not being used back then, I can remember, as a lot of people will, of the dart in that blokes face who was being accompanied by a policeman in the 70,s, and then there were kung fu stars, then there was the Millwall brick, my step brother showed me how to roll a newspaper that tightly, that is could be used as a cosh, he also made a 10" cosh made out of solid rubber with a hole drilled in the centre down the length of it and then a 1/2 steel bar was placed in the hole, it was heavy, but small enough to stash under you jacket and he took it down the to Vicky Ground, every home game, this would be around 1976.

Gssv5, Hope Street, where Chawners was. is probably one of the few areas that hasn't changed, down the years.
The bowling alley is now a casino and was next to the ABC cinema and I remember it as having 60's decor, in the bar area, right up until they closed about 10 ten years ago, unfortunatly it has now been knocked down.
You might have bought shoes from Brassingtons in Fountain Square, they are still there and it is like going into a timewarp, they still sell Doc Martens, the only decent brogues they sell though are Loakes.....a chap, me and others on here know, who is an early Portsmouth Skinhead from the 60's, came up to Stoke for an allnighter at The Kings Hall a couple of years ago and went in there and said, it was great little, old style ,shoe shop and I think he bought a pair of Loakes.
I'am completely surprised, you never went to the Torch, with only living in Stafford, when people from all over the country went there, another chap I know, who was an early Chelsea Skinhead in the 60's, although didn't go to The Torch, he did come up to go allnighters at Trentham Gardens.....as side note, I spoke to him on the phone the other week and he told me had gone into a charity shop near where lives and his eyes lit up when he found one Hawkins Astronaut, but was then disallusioned because they couldn't find the other one.....turns out though, they found it, let him know and now is a happy bunny haha!!!
Did you ever hear of a Stoke hooligan, by the name of Coddy Hughes, think he might of been a Suedehead in the early 70's and was well known on the Northern Soul scene in the 70's, he got shot and killed in a pub in Colchester in 79, by the landlord after  a game against Ipswich.
Also, surprised you never heard of some of Skinhead gangs in Stoke, other than the Trent Vale Skins, if you type in... Phil Johnson, stoke on trent, pottery and ceramics tunstall.... theres a nice little paragraph  (Music and Fashion} where he recalls, the football and fashions and mentions crops, sta press etc and some of the gangs.
He doesn't mention The Chell Heath Skins (CHS), but they are the only ones who kept going from the 60's, through the 80's and some are still knocking about now......I used to knock about with them during the 80's and though most were Vale, we all used to get on, with just the usual banter.....one of the early Skinheads in the CHS, from the 60's....is well known Stoke fan and what he doesn't know about Northern Soul records, isn't worth knowing.

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but if a chap, became a Skinhead in 1968 or after, can they claim to be an original, with the internet and photos and info emerging, it seems that there were Skinheads or people who dressed in that style, before the name was coined by the media, a couple of years before 68, in Nick knights book there is photo of "Skinhead" with Mods, claiming to be from 67 and wasn't there a band, the name escapes me, who were around in 66, there is even a photo claiming to be from 64, not entirely sure about that one, though and even in some photos of Mods running on beaches etc, there seems to be some lads with cropped hair and what look to be typical Skinhead clothing?
What I'm trying to say is, if they were before 68 how can anyone, there after, be an original, surely to be original, you have to be an originator, so anything there after, is just copying.....if these chaps were Mods who were trying to give their look, a much harder aggressive look, then is not the same principle for 80's Skinheads doing the same, yet 80's Skinheads get slagged of for doing so......maybe people should use the term Early Skinheads, not original.

And whats with this term second wave for 79/80 skinheads,My step brother became a Skinhead in 1976, after he left school, just as Punk exploded and he was Skinhead not a Punk, some of his mates were Punks and as a nine year old kid, they frightened the life out me, but my brother looked the dogs bollocks,
but who gives a shit who came after who, original, 1st, 2nd , 3rd wave blah blah blah....
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post

Perhaps in hindsight,  I shouldnt of said, if i was an original Skinhead, I would now be an old bastard, some may have taken offence....just my sense of humour!!!!

Cerneabbas. you are correct, I did mean...we didn't know what was going on in London....not, we didn't care what was going on .....although I shouldn't of put we, I should of put....I didnt know!....but I was only 12 in 1979, I was just happy to be part of Jerry Dammers 2tone army, most 12 years olds are just putting cap guns and bow and arrows away, I dont believe many of that age are that fashion concious, that they would want to be one step head of the competion, with clothes.

Also your question of Stoke fans and clay and razor blades, I have heard something along these lines, though clay and nails, not razors, though never seen this, I would say it is feasable, but not with soft potters wheel clay.... in potbanks (factories), the clay comes in heavy blocks, which are then put into a large mixing machine that turns the clay into a liquid form called Slip, which is piped to an area, where it is poured into plaster moulds.... where the blocks come in, is called the clay end, and it is hard heavy work and I can imagine the blokes in there, would do a lot of pissing around, throwing the clay at each other etc, so , I could see, that somebody would come up with the idea of setting nails/razors into a small ball, perhaps the size of the a golf ball and then  letting the clay dry out and then taking these down to  the Vale or Stoke.....as for weapons not being used back then, I can remember, as a lot of people will, of the dart in that blokes face who was being accompanied by a policeman in the 70,s, and then there were kung fu stars, then there was the Millwall brick, my step brother showed me how to roll a newspaper that tightly, that is could be used as a cosh, he also made a 10" cosh made out of solid rubber with a hole drilled in the centre down the length of it and then a 1/2 steel bar was placed in the hole, it was heavy, but small enough to stash under you jacket and he took it down the to Vicky Ground, every home game, this would be around 1976.

Gssv5, Hope Street, where Chawners was. is probably one of the few areas that hasn't changed, down the years.
The bowling alley is now a casino and was next to the ABC cinema and I remember it as having 60's decor, in the bar area, right up until they closed about 10 ten years ago, unfortunatly it has now been knocked down.
You might have bought shoes from Brassingtons in Fountain Square, they are still there and it is like going into a timewarp, they still sell Doc Martens, the only decent brogues they sell though are Loakes.....a chap, me and others on here know, who is an early Portsmouth Skinhead from the 60's, came up to Stoke for an allnighter at The Kings Hall a couple of years ago and went in there and said, it was great little, old style ,shoe shop and I think he bought a pair of Loakes.
I'am completely surprised, you never went to the Torch, with only living in Stafford, when people from all over the country went there, another chap I know, who was an early Chelsea Skinhead in the 60's, although didn't go to The Torch, he did come up to go allnighters at Trentham Gardens.....as side note, I spoke to him on the phone the other week and he told me had gone into a charity shop near where lives and his eyes lit up when he found one Hawkins Astronaut, but was then disallusioned because they couldn't find the other one.....turns out though, they found it, let him know and now is a happy bunny haha!!!
Did you ever hear of a Stoke hooligan, by the name of Coddy Hughes, think he might of been a Suedehead in the early 70's and was well known on the Northern Soul scene in the 70's, he got shot and killed in a pub in Colchester in 79, by the landlord after  a game against Ipswich.
Also, surprised you never heard of some of Skinhead gangs in Stoke, other than the Trent Vale Skins, if you type in... Phil Johnson, stoke on trent, pottery and ceramics tunstall.... theres a nice little paragraph  (Music and Fashion} where he recalls, the football and fashions and mentions crops, sta press etc and some of the gangs.
He doesn't mention The Chell Heath Skins (CHS), but they are the only ones who kept going from the 60's, through the 80's and some are still knocking about now......I used to knock about with them during the 80's and though most were Vale, we all used to get on, with just the usual banter.....one of the early Skinheads in the CHS, from the 60's....is well known Stoke fan and what he doesn't know about Northern Soul records, isn't worth knowing.

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but if a chap, became a Skinhead in 1968 or after, can they claim to be an original, with the internet and photos and info emerging, it seems that there were Skinheads or people who dressed in that style, before the name was coined by the media, a couple of years before 68, in Nick knights book there is photo of "Skinhead" with Mods, claiming to be from 67 and wasn't there a band, the name escapes me, who were around in 66, there is even a photo claiming to be from 64, not entirely sure about that one, though and even in some photos of Mods running on beaches etc, there seems to be some lads with cropped hair and what look to be typical Skinhead clothing?
What I'm trying to say is, if they were before 68 how can anyone, there after, be an original, surely to be original, you have to be an originator, so anything there after, is just copying.....if these chaps were Mods who were trying to give their look, a much harder aggressive look, then is not the same principle for 80's Skinheads doing the same, yet 80's Skinheads get slagged of for doing so......maybe people should use the term Early Skinheads, not original.

And whats with this term second wave for 79/80 skinheads,My step brother became a Skinhead in 1976, after he left school, just as Punk exploded and he was Skinhead not a Punk, some of his mates were Punks and as a nine year old kid, they frightened the life out me, but my brother looked the dogs bollocks,
but who gives a shit who came after who, original, 1st, 2nd , 3rd wave blah blah blah....
,

Con Man..Just read this thread .....It explains how we became Skinheads....It was a gradual thing...over a few years up till 68....It all really started with boots.
post #14552 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post


Gssv5, Hope Street, where Chawners was. is probably one of the few areas that hasn't changed, down the years.
The bowling alley is now a casino and was next to the ABC cinema and I remember it as having 60's decor, in the bar area, right up until they closed about 10 ten years ago, unfortunatly it has now been knocked down.
You might have bought shoes from Brassingtons in Fountain Square, they are still there and it is like going into a timewarp, they still sell Doc Martens, the only decent brogues they sell though are Loakes.....a chap, me and others on here know, who is an early Portsmouth Skinhead from the 60's, came up to Stoke for an allnighter at The Kings Hall a couple of years ago and went in there and said, it was great little, old style ,shoe shop and I think he bought a pair of Loakes.
I'am completely surprised, you never went to the Torch, with only living in Stafford, when people from all over the country went there, another chap I know, who was an early Chelsea Skinhead in the 60's, although didn't go to The Torch, he did come up to go allnighters at Trentham Gardens.....as side note, I spoke to him on the phone the other week and he told me had gone into a charity shop near where lives and his eyes lit up when he found one Hawkins Astronaut, but was then disallusioned because they couldn't find the other one.....turns out though, they found it, let him know and now is a happy bunny haha!!!
Did you ever hear of a Stoke hooligan, by the name of Coddy Hughes, think he might of been a Suedehead in the early 70's and was well known on the Northern Soul scene in the 70's, he got shot and killed in a pub in Colchester in 79, by the landlord after  a game against Ipswich.
Also, surprised you never heard of some of Skinhead gangs in Stoke, other than the Trent Vale Skins, if you type in... Phil Johnson, stoke on trent, pottery and ceramics tunstall.... theres a nice little paragraph  (Music and Fashion} where he recalls, the football and fashions and mentions crops, sta press etc and some of the gangs.

Hope St looks a bit run down compared to my memories of it.The spider man on the front of Debenhams looks the same though !
all my Boots and Shoes were bought on trips to London,Grattans catalog,Army & navy or the local riding shop in those days.
The Torch all Nighters were from around 71-72 if I recall? I was 14 or 15 and pushing my luck going to Tiffs.My elder sisters made sure my parents had heard about the drugs at the Torch and made sure I never saw the place.Thankfully I was able to catch Maor Lance at Stafford.
I left and moved south not long after,so stopped following Stoke and started to follow the Faces instead.Different music,different clothes,different lifestyle.
I have read bits and pieces here and there,but know little of the place or people after that period.
post #14553 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

Like to see young Girls in Strapless Dresses during the winter though.....biggrin.gif

Careful now!

post #14554 of 18559

con man. I think that as 12 year olds we knew what we wanted clothes/shoe wise but we didn't have the cash to get them all.....now that I have the cash a lot of the things that I want are hard to find ( one reason why I like this thread....clued up blokes with information ).

Yes there were weapons around in the early 70s,the sharpened steel comb has been talked about on here as have umbrellas,but I think that weapons became more common in the mid 70s,the kung fu stars were about 75 ( and they weren't common I only read about them in the paper ).The Man utd fan with the dart in his nose was at Liverpool 75/76 ? but people had been throwing   anything at football matches for years, the nastiest stuff I saw thrown was when some kids smashed toilet pans and threw the bits ( that stuff is sharp as razor blades,bloody lethal ).

Thanks for the info on the clay/nails thing....its like a lot of things that you hear ( skinhead/mohicans,clothes being stolen at Liverpool),you don't know if its true or not,but ask on here and someone usually knows the answer.

I remember Stoke coming to Eastville to play Rovers in the league cup,this was about 69 or 70 ? not sure,but it was a night game with a big crowd ( for us ) and there was trouble there.

I think that the term "original" is used on here  to describe anyone who was a skinhead or suedehead before it died out in 71 ( maybe later in other parts of the country ),that's how I see it I could be wrong.

One thing that you mentioned was your plan to buy new clobber now the money situations eased,i would be interested in what you plan to buy and where you will buy it.

Just adding to this post to say that I am not trying to class myself as an "original",i was 12 in 1970 and although I tried to copy the fashion and I saw some of the things that happened,i was just a little kid who wanted to be involved .


Edited by cerneabbas - 9/7/13 at 2:26am
post #14555 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post
 

Did you ever hear of a Stoke hooligan, by the name of Coddy Hughes, think he might of been a Suedehead in the early 70's and was well known on the Northern Soul scene in the 70's, he got shot and killed in a pub in Colchester in 79, by the landlord after  a game against Ipswich.

Also, surprised you never heard of some of Skinhead gangs in Stoke, other than the Trent Vale Skins, if you type in... Phil Johnson, stoke on trent, pottery and ceramics tunstall.... theres a nice little paragraph  (Music and Fashion} where he recalls, the football and fashions and mentions crops, sta press etc and some of the gangs.

He doesn't mention The Chell Heath Skins (CHS), but they are the only ones who kept going from the 60's, through the 80's and some are still knocking about now......I used to knock about with them during the 80's and though most were Vale, we all used to get on, with just the usual banter.....one of the early Skinheads in the CHS, from the 60's....is well known Stoke fan and what he doesn't know about Northern Soul records, isn't worth knowing.

 

I have read Mark Chesters account of that incident in 1978.He puts Coddy Hughes at 34 yrs old.He was13 years my senior,and would have been considered an old man to us in '1970.When people look back.it is often exagerated and through rose tinted glasses.Although the Torch was a hugely influential club and had been going for years,it was only really big for a couple of years as an All Nighter for Soul fans.Short lived really in hindsight,after closing in '73.Though I never stopped loveing the music and emotions it brings back.like many on here it was a great few years and that was that.End of an era.Just as '76-79 were.Very different in style ,attitude,music etc.a great few years never to be repeated

post #14556 of 18559
Clouseau(and anybody else who has them), how's the sizing on them Dinkelacker brogues? On the site all the longwings say they're an extra-wide "E" width. Do you take your normal size or do ya size down? They seem like a serious investment but they look to be built like Sherman tanks!



***ATTN: non-sequitur alert***
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post

...and started to follow the Faces instead.Different music,different clothes,different lifestyle.


Nought wrong with following the Faces around! My Dad did that, usually dragged my mum around, too. Aparently I was in the womb(I'm but a wee 38 yrs old) when my parents met Ron Wood and Ronnie Lane by the backstage and got invited back for a toke. Mum refrained supposedly:satisfied: I love the Faces even still. So dead cool.
post #14557 of 18559

Botolph...When I looked on the Dinkelacker site I could not see the longwings that I really liked,maybe its a version that they are not making now...I do like those half brogues on there though.

I wonder how long shoes like that take to break in ?

BTW.I did read somewhere that its worth looking on e bay de for Dinkelacker shoes.


Edited by cerneabbas - 9/7/13 at 7:47am
post #14558 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by con man View Post

 

 

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but if a chap, became a Skinhead in 1968 or after, can they claim to be an original, with the internet and photos and info emerging, it seems that there were Skinheads or people who dressed in that style, before the name was coined by the media, a couple of years before 68, in Nick knights book there is photo of "Skinhead" with Mods, claiming to be from 67 and wasn't there a band, the name escapes me, who were around in 66, there is even a photo claiming to be from 64, not entirely sure about that one, though and even in some photos of Mods running on beaches etc, there seems to be some lads with cropped hair and what look to be typical Skinhead clothing?

What I'm trying to say is, if they were before 68 how can anyone, there after, be an original, surely to be original, you have to be an originator, so anything there after, is just copying.....if these chaps were Mods who were trying to give their look, a much harder aggressive look, then is not the same principle for 80's Skinheads doing the same, yet 80's Skinheads get slagged of for doing so......maybe people should use the term Early Skinheads, not original.

 

I was 16 in 1969 and the media and greasers used the term skinhead to describe me and my mates. We took the term as an insult at first but it became adopted by us and we turned it around in the same way as Tottenham fans adopted the 'Yiddo' chant. As far as I know the term 'skinhead' was not used previously. We didn't call ourselves anything. My older cousins (about 22 in 1969) were London Mods. We were a continuation on from them' culturally' but our hair became shorter and we sometimes wore DM boots, which they didn't. There were similarities in clothes (Levi jeans, desert boots etc) but also distinctions such as braces,Sta-prest, Lee jeans, Tonik (not just mohair) suits. Crombies. I think Ben Shermans only started to sell well in the late sixties. Brutus was a 68/69/70 shirt.Some wore Harrington jackets before 68/69, but not many. Some listened to Reggae blue-beat, rock steady ,ska before 68, but not many white boys. We listened to Soul music like the earlier mods but West Indian sounds suited our attitude and behaviour. I don't think it is that important who is original, or not, but I know that many of the clothes I was wearing in 68/ 69 were not worn by UK teenagers before but, perhaps were, by college boys in the USA.

post #14559 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botolph View Post

Clouseau(and anybody else who has them), how's the sizing on them Dinkelacker brogues? On the site all the longwings say they're an extra-wide "E" width. Do you take your normal size or do ya size down? They seem like a serious investment but they look to be built like Sherman tanks!

 

Botolph, unfortunately, i don't own Heinrich Dinkelacker shoes (yet!). With this type of expensive shoes, i wouldn't buy them online. I plan to buy some one day, either in Hungary or Germany. So i can't help you with the sizing. But, if you go back page 7 of this thread, there is a picture of Mr Soulstylist who owns some. You could try to PM him, even if he didn't contribute for a while...

They are said to be virtually indestructible. Reminds me more of a Tiger tank (except they don't need so many fuel)...

I've got a pair of german made Birkenstock brogues in kangaroo skin.  Sturdy, supple, and quite "different". Except the leather sole is a bit thin, so i had to put a rubber sole over it. 


Edited by Clouseau - 9/7/13 at 8:39am
post #14560 of 18559

Clouseau...Not a rubber sole ! oh dear I know whats going to happen now. haha

I think that the Dinkelacker that I saw was the Apollo but I am not certain......did Paraboot ever make a brogue ?

post #14561 of 18559

Cerneabbas. I did it because they told me to do so at the Birkenstock shop, cos their sole is thin (like on your Bexleys), but i went to a good cobbler, the job is perfect, and it lasts. I didn't do it on my Loakes or Church's, because the leather sole is thick.

 

Yes i think Paraboot did a brogue in the time, English type not American type. But it's not the style of Paraboot. Once again their classic is the " Michael" model. This one is an AMX tank. Don't like too much the other models, except a light summer mocassin i've got.

post #14562 of 18559

Clouseau...A rubber sole is fine with me ( even a commando sole ) but you will be still be in trouble with the "sole patrol" !

I was trying to find more information about the GTH leather jackets that Silvermans sell,it could be that it was a firm from Northampton bought by Italians,but I don't think that the jackets would be made in Italy at that price ?....About the Ma1,Silvermans says that it is better quality than more expensive ones from other brands ( they don't say who ).

post #14563 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Badger View Post
 

I was 16 in 1969 and the media and greasers used the term skinhead to describe me and my mates. We took the term as an insult at first but it became adopted by us and we turned it around in the same way as Tottenham fans adopted the 'Yiddo' chant. As far as I know the term 'skinhead' was not used previously. We didn't call ourselves anything. My older cousins (about 22 in 1969) were London Mods. We were a continuation on from them' culturally' but our hair became shorter and we sometimes wore DM boots, which they didn't. There were similarities in clothes (Levi jeans, desert boots etc) but also distinctions such as braces,Sta-prest, Lee jeans, Tonik (not just mohair) suits. Crombies. I think Ben Shermans only started to sell well in the late sixties. Brutus was a 68/69/70 shirt.Some wore Harrington jackets before 68/69, but not many. Some listened to Reggae blue-beat, rock steady ,ska before 68, but not many white boys. We listened to Soul music like the earlier mods but West Indian sounds suited our attitude and behaviour. I don't think it is that important who is original, or not, but I know that many of the clothes I was wearing in 68/ 69 were not worn by UK teenagers before but, perhaps were, by college boys in the USA.

 

I was 15 in 69 and your comments are smack on.  I remember that the skinhead style really hit in the summer of 1969 and unfortunately only lasted 2 - 3 years.  In my opinion the 'originals' were those involved in the 69 - 71 period.  Prior to that they were mods - some carried on with the change of fashion and others didn't  - but it was our turn.

 

There has been various revivals since then that I have had no involvement in but it is each eras people who will interoperate and carry out as they wish this trend so they will have their own memories.  It is interesting that on here we have a full range of ages with everyone's thoughts and opinions and somewhere in there there is a common denominator

post #14564 of 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post
 

Clouseau...A rubber sole is fine with me ( even a commando sole ) but you will be still be in trouble with the "sole patrol" !

I was trying to find more information about the GTH leather jackets that Silvermans sell,it could be that it was a firm from Northampton bought by Italians,but I don't think that the jackets would be made in Italy at that price ?....About the Ma1,Silvermans says that it is better quality than more expensive ones from other brands ( they don't say who ).

 

Here are the Birkenstock brogues. As you can see, the leather soles are very thin. So i had no choice. But they are still very good quality shoes.

 

post #14565 of 18559
There were a number of determining factors as to what was worn and by who and when.
Finances,availability,sizes produced,regional styles and trends,and lastly personal choices.
Not everyone embraced every aspect of the style as it progressed. You could say I was always a Mod (which I always felt at heart) or maybe suede head if you need.?lots to interpret as you say Aces.Trying to find everything that the 16-17 year olds were wearing when you were 12 was a constant problem then
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