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Mod to Suedehead - Page 936

post #14026 of 18950
Someone mentioned the language of the time a few pages back,now in my mind i always thought "aggro" meant aggravating someone generally with words,whereas actual fighting was "bother" ( or bovver ),later "aggro" meant trouble as well IMO,and i might well be on my own on this one.I will say some of the language used to aggravate ( or wind people up ) was over the top,the Harry Roberts chants to wind up the police ?,but the one i hated then ( I NEVER joined in ) and i cringe when i think about it now was the Aberfan chants when English clubs played in Cardiff,the lowest of the low IMO,it wasnt all golden memories.
post #14027 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

For me to become a Skinhead was a continuation of the Mod years.We set the template for future Skinheads-whether it is liked or not.To see Ben Shermans etc.,coming in new or going to Jamaican Record Shops and buying the Tunes-fresh from Jamaica or London was exciting.Any other times it was second hand. Ok I have not been a Skinhead for 40 years+ but then I moved on.

Of course the template was set. But you dont see original mods puting down skinhead as not being original do you? Our time was an extention to what your time had began from the continuation of Mod. In some cases we exagerated it further, as you guys did from Mod.
In Northampton we had skinheads up to about 1974, like some other parts of the country. So it was very fresh in our minds when we took to the healm. Im sure no one on here can say they was THE original skinhead. So we ALL, like it or not followed on from our peers and copied the look or items of clothing that we had seen others wearing. Some on here might not want to admit these facts. But they are never the less true.

As for tunes, im a lover of Jamaican reggae myself, but as you know that was never the only style of music liked by skinhead, only part of it. The continuation of skinhead meant that we had our own music, Oi. Now i know most of you early guys don't recognise Oi as anything to do with skinhead. But im sure early Mods felt the same about other aspects or early skinheads.
I have great respect for you older lot who was there in the earlier days, but lets not forget it was just a passing fashion for most of you.
post #14028 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmod View Post

Well said M.O.M.and cerneabbas. One thing I think this thread does is work out what of the old style always works,even today and still look good.For Teds it's tuff.Mods and Skins got it easier with the mainstream acceptance of certain pieces abundant today.


As I have said before much of what I was wearing 1968-1971 I can wear today (in slightly larger sizes!). Compare that with Goths, New Romantics, Punks and other youth movements that followed. A mature man would look ridulous in many of the fashions he followed as a teenager however much of the Mod/Skin/Suedehead look has stood the test of time IMO. Or am I deluding myself like the Teddy boy?

post #14029 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Badger View Post


As I have said before much of what I was wearing 1968-1971 I can wear today (in slightly larger sizes!). Compare that with Goths, New Romantics, Punks and other youth movements that followed. A mature man would look ridulous in many of the fashions he followed as a teenager however much of the Mod/Skin/Suedehead look has stood the test of time IMO. Or am I deluding myself like the Teddy boy?

 

No you are quite right. Because most of the pieces were originally appropriated from Ivy League, the English Gentleman, the continental modernist look or old fashioned work-wear they are nearly all very wearable today. As you say, the way you wear them in your late 50s / early 60s has to be carefully considered but in principle I agree.
post #14030 of 18950
Notwithstanding what I have said above about wearing today certain pieces that were staples back in 1968 / 71, I remain firmly of the view that skinhead in its true form died some time between 1970 and 1971 (except for a few far-flung areas of the Kingdom). And what I find so interesting is how and why things move on. I have no interest in how we might attempt replicate or resurrect a teenage look that is well past its sell-by date. That is when you start to run the risk of looking like you are wearing fancy dress. If we consider the men we have all looked at down the years as a style icon - Beau Brummel, The Duke of Windsor, Cary Grant, Steve McQueen, Bryan Ferry to name a few - they all have one thing in common namely that they were modern, innovators in their time. None of them was considered well-dressed because he copied a style of a bygone era.
Edited by Mr Knightley - 7/31/13 at 6:54am
post #14031 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrysgame View Post

Of course the template was set. But you dont see original mods puting down skinhead as not being original do you? Our time was an extention to what your time had began from the continuation of Mod. In some cases we exagerated it further, as you guys did from Mod.
In Northampton we had skinheads up to about 1974, like some other parts of the country. So it was very fresh in our minds when we took to the healm. Im sure no one on here can say they was THE original skinhead. So we ALL, like it or not followed on from our peers and copied the look or items of clothing that we had seen others wearing. Some on here might not want to admit these facts. But they are never the less true.

As for tunes, im a lover of Jamaican reggae myself, but as you know that was never the only style of music liked by skinhead, only part of it. The continuation of skinhead meant that we had our own music, Oi. Now i know most of you early guys don't recognise Oi as anything to do with skinhead. But im sure early Mods felt the same about other aspects or early skinheads.
I have great respect for you older lot who was there in the earlier days, but lets not forget it was just a passing fashion for most of you.


The original Mods put down the Mods that came `64/`65 and the later Mods who eventually went into Skinhead.To the early Mods they were the only ones-you see comments on Threads in "The Mod Generation" by the first lot.To the early ones we sold out to commercialism etc..Rocksteady?early Reggae was the major force in the Clubs etc.,as the Soul had become very "watered down".Motown/Soul was not played in any Clubs I went to-`67/`68.In the later period Motown came back but again it had to compete with early Rock etc.
post #14032 of 18950
As I have said before,I did not go further than Watford-so I only saw in London(especially the Clubs).smile.gif
post #14033 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

 

Spot on - Football violence as we understand it. There are reports of Manchester United fans bricking the Bolton Wanderers team coach on it's return journey from winning the cup final in 1958.

 

My son did get involved - though never when he was with me. (though I had to physically hold him back one night on his cousin's stag do 'cos someone was gobbing off). This was when he was aged between 16 and 18 but he calmed down when he got a steady girlfriend ...... any of this sound familiar? ....... during this time he was just as concerned with dressing and looking the part as we had been, but obviously the styles of his time..... Stone Island, Burberry etc. So many parallels to my experience. As we don't live near Manchester now (he never has) he did his stuff with Wrexham so he could go with his local mates. It would be quite amusing to hear them talking about different 'firms' - BBC at Sheffield Wednesday, only to have me say "No, that's Sheffield United" and they would all go quiet - who else's Dad knew all about this? In the end my lad would ask me! "Dad, have so and so got much of a crew?" as if I was supposed to know 30 odd years later. One fortunate by-product of this was I would sometimes be lecturing a quite 'challenging'  group of students when they would make the connection with the name and ask was he any relation - I would say, "He's my son" and after that they would all be as good as gold!

 

The point I am making is that every 'generation' has it's own style and that's exactly as it should be. At 16 I didn't want to be dressed like a mod from 1964, I would have viewed that as old fashioned or dated - I wanted the style of my peers and some only slightly older than me, people I looked up to. 

post #14034 of 18950
Some good points being made. roytonboy especially (with Mods as we know,subtle changes every week or two in some cases) My feeling about revivals.I looked back and decided certain things I liked and certain things I didn't. It's the same in music.You use things from the past you think are good and the stuff that's Naff(?) you ignore. Mod had so many short lived ideas.I've seen some cool original Mod styles I've never seen in the revival(maybe some items of clothing weren't a big seller and so doesn't exist today)I'm sure browniecj and M.O.M can remember some of those items.
post #14035 of 18950
Yes Yankmod there were,but the real difference was the pure arrogance.When I was 15 the older Mods looked down their nose at my perception of Mod.Later,you had my age group being ostracised by the younger Skinheads for being too old.You, in turn, looked down on the youngsters as being lightweight in the fashion.You could try but the world of Mod was very critical.smile.gif
post #14036 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

Yes Yankmod there were,but the real difference was the pure arrogance.When I was 15 the older Mods looked down their nose at my perception of Mod.Later,you had my age group being ostracised by the younger Skinheads for being too old.You, in turn, looked down on the youngsters as being lightweight in the fashion.You could try but the world of Mod was very critical.smile.gif

I have to say that I don't think the rigid attention to detail existed in the US where youth subcultures were less so(maybe more trivial at the time)The obsession to look good when you don't have much cash has and still exists in the US inner city as it most likely does the world over.

post #14037 of 18950

early or late 70's?...

 

post #14038 of 18950

Its from The Derek Ridgers Archive, 1979 or 1980, the guys whole works seem to deal with revival mods,skinheads and teds and some punks as well, beware quite a few boneheads depicted.


Edited by Sirryacus - 7/31/13 at 7:11pm
post #14039 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmod View Post

I have to say that I don't think the rigid attention to detail existed in the US where youth subcultures were less so(maybe more trivial at the time)The obsession to look good when you don't have much cash has and still exists in the US inner city as it most likely does the world over.

I remember having a large book(years ago)that covered life in the States-1950s.I can recall a Picture of some Youths from Brooklyn and they looked casual but smart.If my memory serves me right,one had a pair of Basket Weave Loafers(without a bar going across).Always wanted a pair of those. smile.gif
post #14040 of 18950
Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post

 

The point I am making is that every 'generation' has it's own style and that's exactly as it should be. At 16 I didn't want to be dressed like a mod from 1964, I would have viewed that as old fashioned or dated - I wanted the style of my peers and some only slightly older than me, people I looked up to. 

Sorry, I didn't get chance to finish this post........

 

The point I am making is that every 'generation' has it's own style and that's exactly as it should be. At 16 I didn't want to be dressed like a mod from 1964 or 1965, I would have viewed that as old fashioned or dated - I wanted the style of my peers and some only slightly older than me, people I looked up to. Similarly, 16 year olds in 1974 or 1975 didn't want to dress as I had in 1970 - but then, neither did I - nor did I want to dress like them!

 

Eleven years ago my Mum moved back to Royton and I decided to look up an old friend and after a couple of phone calls we arranged a night out as I could travel there and stay at Mum's. On the night out we met up with a couple of other mates - lads we had been skinheads with. One of them was still fighting at football matches! (apparently had promised his wife he would 'retire' when he was 50!) Was he still dressed in Doc Martens, turned up jeans and braces? - of course not, he was dressed in a similar style to the rest of us. He may still have been getting his 'kicks' in the same way as when he was 18 but in other aspects he had moved on.

 

I can relate to many aspects of youth culture as we've all been through it and therefore I don't slag off mod revivalists, casuals, or even my son's style as I know where they are coming from, as I said, every generation has it's own take on things but there are usually some threads that I can recognise . I think what rankles with some of us, though, is when people take something that we have fond memories of and make it into something else which changes the perception of it. Late 70's/early 80's skinheads for example, are now what people think of as skinheads with all their racist baggage and scruffy style. The other are skinhead 'revivalists' as discussed in relation to Brighton and Margate who seem to have taken some aspects of the original clothing and put them together in some type of caricature of the original style with their gaudy coloured check shirts and brightly coloured braces - again missing the point - style is not just throwing a few things together. I suppose it is like when you see an old girlfriend or girl you used to fancy - if she's put on weight or lost her looks it makes you sad, you want to remember her as she was (or at least how you think she was!)

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