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Mod to Suedehead - Page 911

post #13651 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons View Post

And 'ex-skinheads' ... whilst having been a skinhead for a while might shape your opinions on many things, I can't stand to hear middle aged blokes with what's left of their hair cropped, wearing Adidas Sambas, 3/4 cammo shorts and a T-shirt from the supermarket who put their fist over their chest and say summet like "still a skinhead at heart ... I still like me Trojan". No you're not - your a bloke in cheap sand shoes who likes a bit of reggae.

 

I've given this a lot of thought over the past few days Buttons and it brought up a lot of things to mind about how I feel and just how clothes/fashion / uniforms play a part in our lives and mold our attitudes.Being a Northener for all intents ( N of the Watford Gap ),from as far back as my memory goes,we always called ourselves Mods.It didn't matter if we had cropped hair ,flared cords or Tonik strides,we always used the term Mods.Not that it happened,but if anyone ever asked me to this day,if I had to say what I was,I would still claim to be Mod.I can't explain it.

I don't necessarily dress or look like any pre conceived idea of Mod,and apart from interaction in this Forum,I have no connection with anyone or anything related to Mod today.What I do have is my own sense of style and very strong opinions about it.From the width of of a turn up to the length of the hair over my ears,1/2 an inch has never meant so much to a man ( or woman !)

It is something I have carried with me for life.I remember seeing a chat show back in the late 60's where someone like Parkinson or Cliff Mitchelmore had a cross section of British youth on ,being questioned about why they chose a particular look etc.I distinctly recall a Skinhead saying how he was a Skinhead and would always be that for life.Well ,we all felt like him and had his commitment and naivety at certain points in our lives.

I have been thinking on the period of change and acceptance of new things,new looks and the end of the '70's.You have mentioned before  of the attraction of a "Hard-case" element who would attach itself to a group for whatever reason,who would be tolerated and maybe even understood by the few who they were personally known to.These lads usually lacked or cared about style,taste or subtlety .Great to have in your corner at the bar ,but scary to be around at times when their unpredictable side came to the fore.Were these the blokes who championed the "Boot Boys?"

As we moved into the '70's I recall seeing  lads who had previously been smart,well turned out respectfully dressed mates turn into Frankenstein incarnations of a thrift store junkie.

Harrington's, Trevira parallels,platforms etc. A visual bloody nightmare.

The previous few years left little room for personal expression,individual flair.The rules were very well defined and enforced.Your mates let you know if you looked a cunt.

Once those boundaries were removed,all hell broke lose.It was too much for some to take in .It was a new style that had to be be embraced in it's entirety.No room for the lilly livered to stick their toe in the water.Half arsed attempts looked exactly that - and you were no one ,going nowhere.If the previous three years had taught you anything it was that you had the balls to carry off a "Look". That is where "Mod' comes back into play.You understood the "whole" picture,subtleties,subliminal interaction of the parts.Without the confines of Skin/Suede and to some extent Smooth,many got lost on the road and gave up, and were the ones whose Wives now make their clothing decisions today.It's so much easier that way isn't it?

Fast Fwd to Aug 1980.I was walking up Wembley Way with a spare ticket to unload for the Roxy Music Gig.The sun was shining  on a perfect Summer day.I had Ox Blood Weejuns,no socks,white Poplin frog-mouth trousers and an Ivory Lacoste.Betrayed only by the requisite grease in my Ferryesque quiff,it was pretty much a classic 60's Mod look give or take an Alligator or a Laurel wreath.I looked like a fucking advert for Daz.

A familiar Tout gave me an insultingly low ball offer for my spare,to which I unapologetic ally shared my thoughts with him.

He sneered......eyed me up and down......and said  "Flash Cunt"

 

What a compliment.

post #13652 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmod View Post

I think the shirt looks good.Just curious why your having these shirts made.Is there nothing on the market you could buy that would be comparable? You mentioned a 1965 version.Is that something you can't get today? Just looking for details.

 

There is no shirt that I can find that has the combination of the fallowing; full box pleat with loop, v taper with tails, TRUE 4 finger collar with 3 buttons, low set second button, overlapping seams, gussets, and made from 100% vintage cotton, or Italian, or Japanese cotton, and made in USA. The 1965 collar is slightly shorter and shaped slightly different. Main consensus was everyone liked the 69/70 collar more. I hope to some day be having them produced in England, but for now they are made in Boston. I'm going to scout some factories in other parts of Massachusetts to get better production rates.

First run will be just three different sizes of the blue vintage 60's gingham. This gingham has a green line selvedge that will be shown on the gussets and on the seams at the inside front of the shirt.

I also plain on doing sta-prest, although I will not settle for anything other than 50/50 poly cotton twill, which is what they used in the 60's. Unfortunately the only place so far that I have found online that will make it, has a purchase minimum of 5000 meters. Since there will only be a limited run of these trousers made and I don't even have the money for 5000 meters of material, it's a pain in the ass. Fortunately I have some vintage 50/50 that I will probably be able to get a few pairs of pants out of.

post #13653 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post

Ivy shop Richmond

 

Thanks flyfronted. You can see where the money was then.

More of a shoe shop than what it ended up as.It's funny ,but I can't ever get my head around Timberland and B.D.baggies as desirable,when there are far better out there  ( then and now ).

I can't help thinking that they (we) fell into the the trap that just like Soul, if it's rare it's got to be good?

 

I miss Richmond.

 

 

 
 

I wish I , I wish I was in Richmond
I do, I would I
I wish I, I wish I was back home

I'm waitin' here in New York City
the rain is falling
there's no one who cares
there's no one loves me here

the women, they may look very pretty
and some they know it
but some look good
they show a leg and smile

but they all look like the flowers
in someone else's garden
I'll not act on love
for anyone but you 

 

 

RIP Ronnie Lane

post #13654 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post


I like the roll of the Collar-although it reminds me of when the wider(Kipper Ties)came in.What will the retail Price be??


Yes, this is definitely from when the ties started getting a bit wider. Although in movies I've watched from that period, I've seen skinny ties/ lapels worn with huge collars.

 

Right now I am charging $165 retail for these. I don't want to, and I am still barley making a profit. I hope that in the future when I am producing them on a more regular basis and the business is in motion, I will be able to charge between $90 to $125. I am using some of the best materials I can get and pulling out all the stops.

post #13655 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Man of Mystery... I am not trying to be a smartass here,but the picture you put up saying US marines is one of the pictures that Clouseau mentioned of US paratroops,

I know, hence my comment about being away for ten days. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Did you ever see anyone with a mohican 69/70 ?

Nope, never. Apart from Billy.
post #13656 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knightley View Post

Dressing in the age of nudity - not off topic but rather my reply to questions about how I feel about dressing for comfort rather than style.  I cannot claim any credit for this excellent essay but would say it sums up my dismay at the decline in standards over time.  I must also agree the original post is a little selective, shall we say, in it's historical references!  But the question is will the decline continue or can the 'Second Age of Nudity' ever be reversed? 

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?79035-Dressing-in-the-Age-of-Nudity

Honestly, I don't see the "second age of nudity" ever changing, atleast not any time soon and I'll be the first to bend the rules of appearance by wearing my house clothes when making a quick errand to the corner store, whereas people a long time ago would have probably gotten dressed. What I find interesting is, that in the 19th century and even old pictures from the 1920s 30s and 40s men always wore hats it was considered part of a suit back then I believe, now, not so much and you'd probably be considered retro and archaic if you wore a pin stripe suit with a fedora. The "naked head" has been pretty much the norm for decades now, and I think it will be the same for the general lack of standards when it comes to clothes in public. The oversized shorts, the saggy pants the ridiculously oversized t shirts are hear to stay.

As for the article, I don't really see a decline in standards in the manner of fashion post French Revolution. The fashion did change and wigs and silk stocking were gone, but men in the 1800s on would still be considered way overdressed by today's standards. The suits that we wear today began to develop in its recognizable form in the 19th century, cuts may have changed depending on fashion trends, but the overall appearance of suits have changed very little since the Victorian era and pretty much worn every day by the upper classes, the middle class and the lower middle class.
post #13657 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivyskin89 View Post

 

Right now I am charging $165 retail for these. I don't want to, and I am still barley making a profit.

 

       O.K Charge less,be happy,lose money and keep everyone happy.

 

        Not wishing to be  an arsehole Ivy, and I admire your style ,but never,never undersell yourself.If you make the best,charge for it.

        

 

        Is it just me  or is it a generational thing,but I wouldn't give you tuppence for anything with Poly blend today?

post #13658 of 19333
To me it was always a bit more clean cut; you’re a skinhead … or you aren’t. Now that doesn’t leave a lot of slack, but maybe it shouldn’t.
If you were a skinhead of a mod or anything really that had a lasting positive impression, then that’s a good thing. If for the next 20 years you always had neat hair and polished shoes, well ironed trousers, not worn too long, then you took something from your skinhead experience for your own pleasure and satisfaction.
One of the key factors for me about being a skinhead was the look. There’s a degree of attitude, a love of certain music, a taste in many things (like cars, scooters, décor, dancing) but the fundamental underlying component for me was always the look. If you don’t look like a skinhead, then how could you claim you are one? You could be a big fan of Stax, SX200s and hair that’s cut every week, but if you wear really long jeans over running shoes with a Superdry T-shirt and a week’s stubble, then whilst you share some tastes with some of the skinheads, that doesn’t mean you’re a skinhead.
And if you dress like your average Joe, but once a month put on a button down, turn your jeans up shorter and put your brogues on to go down the local reggae club … does that make you a skinhead?
A mod lad I knew a while back had drifted out of it for ages and I saw him with a Mohican (because David Beckham grew one). I said “I thought you were a mod”. He said “I am, I just fancied a Mohican”. Really?
If the ethos has stayed with you from a younger experience, then whilst that may be a very good thing, is it anything more than that?
I don’t think there’s any shame in being an ex-skinhead. And there’s certainly no shame in being cool as fuck, with some old skinhead influences in your approach to style.
post #13659 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post

       O.K Charge less,be happy,lose money and keep everyone happy.

        Not wishing to be  an arsehole Ivy, and I admire your style ,but never,never undersell yourself.If you make the best,charge for it.
        

        Is it just me  or is it a generational thing,but I wouldn't give you tuppence for anything with Poly blend today?

If you want your shirts a particular way, Ivy then make them exactly how you want with no compromise. However, if you want to sell lots to make money, you need to offer something that the millions of other button downs don't. You'll never beat the mass market boys on price but if you have a certain style otherwise not available that people want, then charge accordingly. If you have a superior quality that others can't offer then people will pay for it. If its just another shirt on a very long list, its gonna be tough. Good luck though.

And as for my old friend polyester - he has his place in the world!
Sta press wouldn't be the same without it and some shirts look better for it too.
I'd wear late 60's Levi sta press over anything Brooks Brothers make nowadays. And whilst poly-blending isn't the only difference, its a noticeable one.

Be a snob with your threads, but only where it counts.
post #13660 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons View Post

Adidas made all kinds of sports shoes in the 60s but I don't know what they are.
Not really my thing so I asked a couple of Adidas officionardos and they didn't know.
So I had a hunt around and they're not Italias or ROMs (both available in '60). Look a bit like the Adidas Perfekt but the soles are too thin. Must be a very specific shoe for something requiring a very thin sole (i.e. low impact, something like tight-rope walking!)
Software: Microsoft Office

More great detective work, Buttons.

Those white Adidas in the top photo are very similar to my early Reebok. I like your comment about the thin soles; ( tight-rope walking the last thing I'd do). Compared to the air-filled soles around more recently, they were virtually non- existent then. I think that's because they were basically the same as running shoes with the spikes removed.
post #13661 of 19333

Gsvs5.Great read.I like the fact you call yourself a Mod to this day,even though you may not be shimmying down the Flamingo.Love,Love Love Ronnie Lane as well.    Ivyskin89.Thanks for the response and explanation.The blue 60's Gingham w/ Green line selvedge sounds cool.Price is way out of my limit but,I'm a thrift store junkie and not a skinhead.I do think there are skinheads who will pay for a great shirt.Are you selling these online or in a Brick and Mortar store? Always nice to hear from Darksideoftheforce. Intelligent and perceptive.

post #13662 of 19333

Gsvs5 were you one of the guys in the thick of things for all those years as in never had a family to tie you down?

 

I ask because if so you could give us a better first hand account of the later 70's and 80's areas of interest than the other fellows who had to drop out because of careers and family life and how did you guys with families look upon at such people?

 

Did you guys retain friends in such a position who you would still meet up with? What I mean by this is drifting from era to era still in the subculture scenes ie, could have been an one of your old mod or skinhead friends who never had kids and never settled down with any one woman so they were free to spend whatever money they made on whatever they wanted and thus naturally would be going out to see shows a lot more often than you were which would tie them with plenty of emerging subcultures.

 

also do you guys think the excessive ridiculousness of the 70's fashions you guys talked about eventually lead to general backlash which manifested itself in the extremly casual styles we are seeing today? If not what do you think is the reasoning for such casual atmosphere nowdays.

post #13663 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons View Post

To me it was always a bit more clean cut; you’re a skinhead … or you aren’t. Now that doesn’t leave a lot of slack, but maybe it shouldn’t.
If you were a skinhead of a mod or anything really that had a lasting positive impression, then that’s a good thing. If for the next 20 years you always had neat hair and polished shoes, well ironed trousers, not worn too long, then you took something from your skinhead experience for your own pleasure and satisfaction.
One of the key factors for me about being a skinhead was the look. There’s a degree of attitude, a love of certain music, a taste in many things (like cars, scooters, décor, dancing) but the fundamental underlying component for me was always the look. If you don’t look like a skinhead, then how could you claim you are one? You could be a big fan of Stax, SX200s and hair that’s cut every week, but if you wear really long jeans over running shoes with a Superdry T-shirt and a week’s stubble, then whilst you share some tastes with some of the skinheads, that doesn’t mean you’re a skinhead.
And if you dress like your average Joe, but once a month put on a button down, turn your jeans up shorter and put your brogues on to go down the local reggae club … does that make you a skinhead?
A mod lad I knew a while back had drifted out of it for ages and I saw him with a Mohican (because David Beckham grew one). I said “I thought you were a mod”. He said “I am, I just fancied a Mohican”. Really?
If the ethos has stayed with you from a younger experience, then whilst that may be a very good thing, is it anything more than that?
I don’t think there’s any shame in being an ex-skinhead. And there’s certainly no shame in being cool as fuck, with some old skinhead influences in your approach to style.

Your seeing Skinhead as a way of life when i reality it was just fashion in 67 - 71 thats why it was vibrant and moved at a pace . Surely Skinhead would be better if it evolved like it did in the late 60s and took turns that suprised .

post #13664 of 19333

Just a thought on another forum i browse ( http://www.80scasualclassics.co.uk/ ) they produce short runs of clobber ...  how about you guys hooking into heritage brands such as Ben Sherman / Levis and seeing if they would produce a more authentic / limited run that could be made up and sold via this forum ?

post #13665 of 19333
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post

Your seeing Skinhead as a way of life when i reality it was just fashion in 67 - 71 thats why it was vibrant and moved at a pace . Surely Skinhead would be better if it evolved like it did in the late 60s and took turns that suprised .
It did evolve .... for the last 40 years and that's why there's a massive diversity from late 70s two tone fans, NF boneheads with face tatts, scooter rally skinheads, queers in 20 hole steelies and bondage and many many other iterations and cross overs.
If that means "I'm a skinhead" can be any vague diluted reference to any part of any skinhead from the last 46 years, it becomes very meaningless.... which in a way, it probably is.
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