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post #13426 of 18773

roytonboy,I mentioned the smell of the Levis a while ago,i remember going into Austins and where the jeans were it smelt ( a unique smell ) not sure if it was the dye or maybe starch ?.I went into a big jeans shop in Bristol last week and they showed me some Lee rider 101 ( overt £200 ) i think 23oz denim they were like plywood but they didnt have the smell.

post #13427 of 18773

Bob the Badger. I dont know if was the same in Essex but when i started going in pubs in Bristol,on a sunday lunch time the only woman that you saw in the place was the barmaid,it was like an unwritten rule that it was blokes only ( not talking about gay pubs either ).I suppose that traditionally the women were at home cooking sunday lunch ?.I was in Belgium a few years back and women were sweeping the pavement in front of their houses,hadnt seen that here for a very long time.

post #13428 of 18773

flyfronted. Funny that you should mention Dick Emery,we were watching some old stuff of his on youtube,brilliant.There was one short clip of him on Parkinson and he said that he based the skinhead character on some that he had talked to at Clacton or Margate !...Do you think that maybe people have seen him and Roy Kinear and thought that it was a style video ?. I am still wondering why they kept sticking their tongues out like that...

post #13429 of 18773
Maybe they are Gene Simmons fans?
post #13430 of 18773

I have seen lads on 3 seperate occasions in the last week with Mohicans,not the tall multi coloured ones like punks but number 1 on sides and 3 or 4 down the middle,can any of the older guys remember seeing this in 69 or 70 ? why i ask is when i was at school there was always rumours about this haircut.I can only ever remember seeing on bloke with his head shaved back then.

post #13431 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood View Post

Do you remember "The Westerner" boutique in Manchester, roytonboy? Sold lots of denim and cord - with obvious theme. I think they had a stage coach on one of the floors. It's probably been mentioned on here before. And was there one of the same name in London?
I certainly do... Barton Arcade. (Off (posh) St Ann's Square.)

I'm not sure but, didn't it relocate to that big store on Oldham Street, later on? (Guys & Dolls?)

Edit: and there you go...

http://www.manchesterbeat.com/shops/clothes/westerner/westerner.php
Edited by Ed Vaughan - 7/10/13 at 5:33am
post #13432 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by roytonboy View Post


In terms of 'skinhead' many people (myself included) have a pretty fixed idea of what it is, or should be. Sometimes we need to remember that there are different types of skinhead - those that evolved from Mod in the late sixties,those of us who were then drawn to the style, some who evolved from Punks in the late seventies, others who came from the blurring of mod revival in 1979/80 and a variety of other people who have been drawn to the image for a variety of other reasons. All regard themselves as skinheads or former skinheads. Some skinheads I can relate to, regardless of age, some I can't. Doesn't mean they are wrong and I'm right. Tattoo'd girls in bleached denim mini skirts, fishnet tights and Doc Martens bear no resemblance to girls that I knew as a skinhead, yet many people recognize their look as 'skinhead'. It has been a revelation finding this site and discovering that there are others who have very similar ideas on the style as I have myself.
[/quote

Its right what Roytonboy's saying here.
Original skinheads came and went in a short space of time and whilst making quite a fashion impact, if that had been the end, it would be remembered in a very different way. But 40 years is a long time. As I've said on here before, it'd have been better of the name 'skinhead' wasn't kept for the next generations to come and it had been something different but that's how it went. So now its had four decades to evolve which has taken it in many directions. (I'm sure any purists of the Rockabilly look, or Teds, Mods, Rockers etc would look at what its become and how their style has been treated and shake their heads in sorrow). Look at how everything else has changed in the last 40 years in terms of culture, music, fashion and attitude.
A few of us walked past the other Margate do on Saturday afternoon on the way to the cafe, some mutual funny looks and the odd nod and walked on - its a very different scene. There's some underlying links but very distorted ones.
And whilst I fully understand the older lads on here who haven't thought much about skinhead style since the early 70s, to now be looking at what would appear to be an abomination of the look they once adopted but that's what many years of change does, along with a very different approach to 'youth culture'. If you see the original days as skinhead in its purist form (which I certainly do), everything else can only look tainted / wrong / a poor effort. But there's little point in me looking down on modern day skinheads with distain, accusing them all of being shit, for getting it wrong and not being as good as me ... cos they're not 'playing the same game' as me, so clearly have a different approach. The vast majority look fukc all like the originals but that's mostly because they're not trying to (mind you some do and do a terrible job but that's another story).
I was only being born when most of you were growing your hair and wearing beagle collars so I missed the first time around but I've been doing this now for over 30 years (which I know sounds bonkers to many) so I've seen many guises of what falls under the skinhead banner, some of which have taken queues from the olden days and some of which I'm ashamed to be accused of associating with. But it also means I'm not shocked when I see another 'variation on a theme' who bares no resemblance to me at all but dances (all be it differently) to one or two shared tunes.
Many would look at me and think what the hell's he doing dressing like a bygone teenager, at his age. But for me, my interest and appreciation still runs deep and whilst my wrinkles might detract from the complete authenticity I seek, I can't bare to leave it behind and just be a middle aged bloke who wears the odd button down. Am I any less odd than a bloke in his 50s in skin tight bleachies and a head tattoo? Hopefully a lot smarter but a lot of that's in the eye of the beholder.
Whilst I take the old style very seriously (and if there weren't people who did, the likes of this forum wouldn't be half as prominent) but I gave up a while ago getting angry at people who didn't have the same attitude.

(Still doing up the 'right') Buttons

 

 

Very well-put, Buttons.  That's pretty much my take on it, too.  I came up in the late '80s-early '90s and my knowledge of skinhead then was naive at best, and grew immensely with going to England for work and speaking to some older, semi-originals and their late '70s-early '80s descendants.  I'm certainly not as purist as your good self, but believe I hold the flame for the younger ageing generationbiggrin.gif of skinhead.

 

It's kind of like Jazz, Soul, or Rock and Roll: they're all around today but they've branched off in a multitude of directions.  Some of which the originals can relate to, some that they can't.  Kenny G. and Wynton Marsalles are not exactly cut from the same cloth, but they're both(like it or not) Jazz musicians and play Jazz music.  The Len Price 3 and the Foo Fighers are both rock and roll bands, and both probably respect Wynonnie Harris and the Beach Boys, though neither sound like either the originals nor each other... but they still consider themselves in the same school of music-- though maybe of different houses.  These aren't an exact parallels, as late '60s youth culture becoming a late '70s subculture isn't the same thing as the continuation of a musical style, but I'm sure my point is not lost.  

 

Things need to grow/sometimes change in order not to stagnate.  The originals on here, while much respected by the younger, did this thing because that's what you did at the time, and moved on with the fluidity of what people wore back then.  The rest of us sought it out or did it because a few of our friends/older siblings/etc., did it, not because it was "in".  That separates the youngers' raison d'étre from the originals', but I believe also that that fact is what impassions us to "This Thing Of Ours", whether the details are gotten right or wrong.  

  A lot of people love the game of chess, but only a few are masters.  

 

Now the talk of skinhead girls--- God help most of 'em!  So many of them just look like punk girls with a million tattoos, piercings, and hair dyed a wacky color.  That's fine, but just too extreme for my tastes.  I'm lucky enough to have bagged one who had elegance, style, and femininity.  She sometimes did the late '60s style, and sometimes the late '70s/mod revival fallout look for skinhead girls.  No buzz cut, no bleachers, etc., and a very feminine hairstyle.  She's since gotten over the look and is "just me" as she puts it, though still sports a bit of the look now and then, incorporating it into her daily ensemble.  

 

Anyways, the coffee has my fingers working a mile a minute.  Pardon the rant, carry on, and thanks for the great reading!

post #13433 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfronted View Post

Sadly unless you were either around in 67 - 70 or a clothing Connoisseur then your idea of what a Skinhead is / was will be shaped by big blokes in boots n braces and right wing politics . Those people in the margate vids i have seen look like Dick Emery and his son from the TV show and not the Ivy league inspired clothing obsessives i remember admiring as a kid .
the two and eight of the bird with the silly haircut and tatts scared me silly .

I agree about the state of the people who get along to the later Margate event (Big 40 i believe its called) and the Brighton event which is supposed to be a reunion thing.
But i dont agree that all present day skinheads and so called revivalists have got the look wrong. If you was at the Scorcher event last weekend you would have seen many very well turned out skinheads, both men and women. Maybe you should get yourself along to a Scorcher or Sounds and Pressure do. You might be pleasantly suprised.
post #13434 of 18773

Style,be it Skinhead,Teds or whatever,was up to that point organic and moved relatively slowly with minor differences as it travelled like Chinese whispers.The National Daily's might come up with a piece on fashion ,here and there,but for the most part it was TOTP,Football,your Sisters Jackie magazines and word of mouth.A decade later and we were introduced to The Face and "Fashion Stylists" entered the frame.Keen to be fast forward and make their mark,the likes of Ray Petri and others were pulling apart every aspect of sub culture and throwing scraps of old meat into the stew,in the hope of creating a new palatable dish for the kids to buy.Remember the short lived band "King",the Kray influenced Doorman/Hard Man "Look"( all velvet collar Crombie,drainpipes and steel toe hobnails) ?

Robot and DM's saw to it that everyone had a chance to Walk on Air,and not just the Uppercut kids of '69 this time around.

I'm too long in the tooth to comment on anything that emerged after this,but for me it was the end of what had been a natural progression from the street to being dictated to and channeled by a magazine spread.I actually think it's healthy that there is no ONE big look for kids to adopt en masse these days,but I also believe that due to the influence of fashion Editors and men being influenced by magazines,that it has stifled the way thing had developed in the past and ended what we witnessed pre-punk.With so many choices and availability of at every price point out there the streets should be filled with Peacocks strutting along.Really there is no excuse for looking like a badly dressed wound,apart from the fact that you don't give a fuck?

post #13435 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

Bob the Badger. I dont know if was the same in Essex but when i started going in pubs in Bristol,on a sunday lunch time the only woman that you saw in the place was the barmaid,it was like an unwritten rule that it was blokes only ( not talking about gay pubs either ).I suppose that traditionally the women were at home cooking sunday lunch ?.I was in Belgium a few years back and women were sweeping the pavement in front of their houses,hadnt seen that here for a very long time.


When I first started Sunday lunchtime drinking it would have been in East End  'old man pubs' after a regular visit to Petticoat Lane and Brick Lane. Definitely all male with women barmaids. They were dirty, dodgy pubs that no woman would be seen dead in. A bit later our Sunday pub was 'the Merry Fiddlers' a popular youth pub in Dagenham .The pub was knocked down long ago. It was once a famous Skinhead pub (there is a photo from the Pub on this site). A few girls, but not many. When they introduced lunchtime strippers the girls stopped coming. Mid 70's our pub was 'the Retreat' in Chigwell Row. A poseurs pub full of smart good looking women looking for rich working class boys who had made it and would drive flash cars around the large car park to prove it .I drove a Ford Capri so was considered Mid-league. It was a Pub that some West Ham,Tottenham and Arsenal footballers used and you had to push past Bobby Moore, who was often positioned at the bar with his first missus and a few cronies, to get to the bar. That pub has been knocked down and replaced with social housing. After that we all got married and the Sunday Lunchtime drink went out of the window. I now go with my missus to country pubs out in Essex. Last week I was at the Tower Arms, South Weald that has become famous for TOWIE girls.Good looking Women, but a bit thick. There was a hen party from up North just leaving as I arrived.

post #13436 of 18773

Well said Buttons and Botolph.I always liked Punk Girls,and I feel Femininity is subjective.My idea of beauty might not be the norm(I like girls with shaved heads) Is it possible the Skins at Margate don't know anything about the origin of Skinhead.Maybe they think it came from Punk.

post #13437 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerneabbas View Post

I have seen lads on 3 seperate occasions in the last week with Mohicans,not the tall multi coloured ones like punks but number 1 on sides and 3 or 4 down the middle,can any of the older guys remember seeing this in 69 or 70 ? why i ask is when i was at school there was always rumours about this haircut.I can only ever remember seeing on bloke with his head shaved back then.

There were some who had the "Mohican"about in `69/`70.I know because one of our rival Mobs used to have a few with that haircut.It did not last too long though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrysgame View Post

I agree about the state of the people who get along to the later Margate event (Big 40 i believe its called) and the Brighton event which is supposed to be a reunion thing.
But i dont agree that all present day skinheads and so called revivalists have got the look wrong. If you was at the Scorcher event last weekend you would have seen many very well turned out skinheads, both men and women. Maybe you should get yourself along to a Scorcher or Sounds and Pressure do. You might be pleasantly suprised.

I thought the turn-out at "Sound and Pressure"Weekender,in Margate(last week),were well presented.smile.gif
post #13438 of 18773
When I went to the "Lane" in the 60s,used to get a pint of large(Pacific) Prawns from Tubby Isaac`s then go to the Pub nearby-get a pint and (if sunny)used to sit outside and eat the Prawns.The Pubs were always packed around the Market.
post #13439 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by browniecj View Post

Yes,and we are feeling the effects now!!!! Thoroughly enjoyed seeing you Bassett,Buttons,Mr.Twist Tag,Ace and Eights again-my Missus was impressed too.
Good Photo.Shame about the ones from Margate-bloody good weekend though!!!!!smile.gif


My apologies for my absence this year so far I've been poping in but not much chatting! Lol
Anyway it was great to have a catch up in margate this weekend just gone.
Sorry I couldn't make the meet up during the day time (due to work Commitments)
It would of been great to meet ace and eights again! But till next time......

One of the only pics I got over the weekend
Saturday night!
Buttons, my good self, brownie and good old Basset biggrin.gif
post #13440 of 18773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsvs5 View Post

Style,be it Skinhead,Teds or whatever,was up to that point organic and moved relatively slowly with minor differences as it travelled like Chinese whispers.The National Daily's might come up with a piece on fashion ,here and there,but for the most part it was TOTP,Football,your Sisters Jackie magazines and word of mouth.A decade later and we were introduced to The Face and "Fashion Stylists" entered the frame.Keen to be fast forward and make their mark,the likes of Ray Petri and others were pulling apart every aspect of sub culture and throwing scraps of old meat into the stew,in the hope of creating a new palatable dish for the kids to buy.Remember the short lived band "King",the Kray influenced Doorman/Hard Man "Look"( all velvet collar Crombie,drainpipes and steel toe hobnails) ?

Robot and DM's saw to it that everyone had a chance to Walk on Air,and not just the Uppercut kids of '69 this time around.

I'm too long in the tooth to comment on anything that emerged after this,but for me it was the end of what had been a natural progression from the street to being dictated to and channeled by a magazine spread.I actually think it's healthy that there is no ONE big look for kids to adopt en masse these days,but I also believe that due to the influence of fashion Editors and men being influenced by magazines,that it has stifled the way thing had developed in the past and ended what we witnessed pre-punk.With so many choices and availability of at every price point out there the streets should be filled with Peacocks strutting along.Really there is no excuse for looking like a badly dressed wound,apart from the fact that you don't give a fuck?


I know quite a few skinheads who look like the types described, im quite happy to share a pint with them on occasion, but tbh they dont give a fuck about clothing/style, they've told me so, something i cant get me head round, and there's times when that attitude comes across as some weird inferiority complex

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