Mod to Suedehead

BTW heres me: Trad/ Scooter boy Mod


And a few of my friends on a ride in Hollywood

D

Inspired by those great watts pictures, here's another "ivy" styled working class subculture from the 60s and 70s, this time from Maryland, the Grits.
Note the turnups!
Doesn't say much for short pants and small cuffs being a west indian innovation.



Quote:

http://www.marlowheights60sand70s.com/So_What_s_a_Grit_.html

Choco G said:

Quote:


Thanks for the link chickNcoop. That is pretty much how I remember those times. I followed The Jam from the very early "Red Cow" days too, was at Southend for the bank holiday and at the Paddocks for the Secret Affair gig. That weekend was insane, so much rucking going on. We targeted the NF Skins and they got a right pasting, the Old Bill were happy to stand by and watch. I remember seeing Hoxton Tom around and very smart he was too. The 4-Skins and the Cockney Rejects were a great night out and it was always good to see off any Boneheads that were around. Tom is right when he says that the Boneheads didn't know the difference between Skinheads and Mods, the lines were very blurry to say the least. I had mates that dressed identical to me but they'd be Mod and I'd be Skinhead...and sometimes vice versa!

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No problem, that link reminded me a lot of what you guys posted regarding the wave of 80's skins and the tensions between them and the traditionals. I'm fascinated by the regional differences in dress, like how Hoxton Tom mentioned that they preferred brogues and loafers over boots. Which is interesting since boots are such a classic of "skinhead" dress.

It also seems that, despite all of the joking that goes on here, Northern England was a different world as far as fashion goes. Can you shed some light on the Northern style of dress, specifically "beer cloths sewn on the back of parkas to dry their seats"

Thanks as always.

Would anybody be willing to do short interview about the skinhead subculture for me?

chickNcoop said:

like how Hoxton Tom mentioned that they preferred brogues and loafers over boots. Which is interesting since boots are such a classic of "skinhead" dress.

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This is a common misconception, which started to occur in the early 80s when Oi! skinheads and skinhead-punks wore boots with everything.

In the start and throughout the 70s, a skinhead NEVER wore boots with his evening wear i.e. tonic suit or jumper and slacks, with a Crombie on top, it was always oxblood Weejun loafers or oxblood Royal brogues from Loake. That however was the south, I know in Scotland that boots wear generally worn with everything even at the start.

The north of England however, I can't speak for, except that Darlington in Co. Durham in 1980 was a timewarp, in that it was still populated by hippies/hard rockers/proggers as the primary youth sub-culture. It was a bit of a shock that first summer weekend of 1980 when I into Darlington from the Regiment Depot at RAF Catterick and saw all these longhaired, be-flaired youths. It was as if punk and new wave had never happened. I remember a group of us just standing in the street staring as a group of flaired long hairs walked past.

glorious69 said:

Would anybody be willing to do short interview about the skinhead subculture for me?

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Hi, it depends what the questions are. It also depends of course on what type of current or ex-skinhead you are interested in speaking to:

1. Original from 68-70
2. A youngster who got into it in the early-mid 70s
3. Those who got into it with the 2nd Wave of Ska, and Two Tone & the mod revivial in the late 70s
4. Oi! skinheads and skinhead-punks from the 80s
5. American ska-punk skinheads of the 90s

Then you have all the political divisions:

1. British Red skins (socialists - mid 70s)
2. NF and BNP skins (UK Boneheads - mid 70s)
3. American SHARP skins (80s)

Bikers and HC fans with bald heads, combat trousers and leather jackets are not skinheads.

London Rudeboy said:

This is a common misconception, which started to occur in the early 80s when Oi! skinheads and skinhead-punks wore boots with everything.

In the start and throughout the 70s, a skinhead NEVER wore boots with his evening wear i.e. tonic suit or jumper and slacks, with a Crombie on top, it was always oxblood Weejun loafers or oxblood Royal brogues from Loake. That however was the south, I know in Scotland that boots wear generally worn with everything even at the start.

The north of England however, I can't speak for, except that Darlington in Co. Durham in 1980 was a timewarp, in that it was still populated by hippies/hard rockers/proggers as the primary youth sub-culture. It was a bit of a shock that first summer weekend of 1980 when I into Darlington from the Regiment Depot at RAF Catterick and saw all these longhaired, be-flaired youths. It was as if punk and new wave had never happened. I remember a group of us just standing in the street staring as a group of flaired long hairs walked past.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone in the north of England but I never saw a Skinhead wearing Weejuns in south London or later on in Essex, or anywhere else for that matter. Footwear of choice for everyone I knew other than DM's were Faith Royals.

A very presumptuous statement to make “skinheads never wore...”

This has come up so many times on this thread “skinheads never wore Wranglers, anything leather, wore tassled loafers, rode scooters, wore check trousers, check Brutus shirts, penny collars, boots in the evening” and many more.
One person’s recollection of what they saw, in their area, in their time, at their age. Its great but it’s not the whole story.
This completely ignores the differences in attitudes, styles and interpretations from different age groups, social groups and very much from different areas.

There are plenty of old skinhead photos around these days and lots showing all kinds of variations on a theme. Some are just kids copying the older lads ad doing it badly due to lack of funds and understanding, but some are pretty cool looking lads (and lasses) wearing stuff that wasn’t worn in other areas.

The slow movement of fashion, across the country, mixed with the cross fertilisation of football, soul clubs, family holidays and relocations and the likes, created quite a diverse selection of the ‘skinhead’ look.

The northerners (that get a bit of stick on here) weren’t dressing exactly like those, for example in the Shed, but not cos they were wrong, or useless, or backward or a bit thick ... but because they had a different interpretation of the style. They’re still original skinheads, whether that’s just north of the Watford gap or in the East End of Glasgow (and everywhere in between).


And as for politics, I feel I must throw in my opinion .... whilst red skins, NF, BNP, Sharp and all that have played their part in skinhead culture, from an original skinhead point of view (by that I’m meaning from the back end of 60s Mod through to it fizzling away into 70s fashion - not the revival, not alongside punk or Madness, not the late 80s ska scene, not the bald lads in 14 holers, rucking down at Southend in 1980).
Racism was what it was. It existed in the late 60s and was largely down to upbringing, social situations, where you grew up, who you grew up with, who your influences were etc. The bacon sandwich is not inherently a skinhead sandwich as such, but lots of original skinheads ate them (as did grease, long hairs, old blokes ...). Being a racist wasn’t inherently a ‘skinhead’ attitude. Some were, some weren’t.
One’s love of mohair suits, Royals and oxford cloth button downs, did not by default come with a dislike of all black people.

very well put

buttons said:

A very presumptuous statement to make “skinheads never wore...”

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Presumption? No, it's called hyperbole, you know exaggerating for effect. I feel like I have to tell people this a million times a day. As for the rest of your resposne, I agree with every word.

Choco G said:

I can't speak for anyone in the north of England but I never saw a Skinhead wearing Weejuns in south London or later on in Essex, or anywhere else for that matter. Footwear of choice for everyone I knew other than DM's were Faith Royals.

Click to expand...

Well, like I said it depends on your frame of reference as regards time & place. In the early & mid 70s in west,north,south and east London, skinheads, rudeboys,suedeheads were all wearing loafers and brogues with their suits. That you have never seen it might have to do with your time period rather than geography.

London Rudeboy said:

Hi, it depends what the questions are. It also depends of course on what type of current or ex-skinhead you are interested in speaking to:

1. Original from 68-70
2. A youngster who got into it in the early-mid 70s
3. Those who got into it with the 2nd Wave of Ska, and Two Tone & the mod revivial in the late 70s
4. Oi! skinheads and skinhead-punks from the 80s
5. American ska-punk skinheads of the 90s

Then you have all the political divisions:

1. British Red skins (socialists - mid 70s)
2. NF and BNP skins (UK Boneheads - mid 70s)
3. American SHARP skins (80s)

Bikers and HC fans with bald heads, combat trousers and leather jackets are not skinheads.

Click to expand...

I have no particular expectations in terms of type and political division, it is for a college project and we are researching into subcultures, i just have been told to find an interviewee who will be willing to answer a few questions in as much detail as possible in order to gain opinions and views from those who are involved in the subculture. Feel free to correct some of my questions if needs be.

These will be my questions: (plus maybe a few more)

1. How would you class yourself in terms of skinhead type? (e.g oi, american ska punk, an original)
2. How did you first become interested in the skinhead movement?
3. In your opinion how has the subculture changed since it first began? Why has it changed?
4. The movement has been linked to a lot of political issues as well as racism. What is your view on this?
5. How would you characterize the skinhead movement nowadays?
6. What made you leave/stay within the skinhead subculture?

London Rudeboy said:

Hi, it depends what the questions are. It also depends of course on what type of current or ex-skinhead you are interested in speaking to:

1. Original from 68-70
2. A youngster who got into it in the early-mid 70s
3. Those who got into it with the 2nd Wave of Ska, and Two Tone & the mod revivial in the late 70s
4. Oi! skinheads and skinhead-punks from the 80s
5. American ska-punk skinheads of the 90s

Then you have all the political divisions:

1. British Red skins (socialists - mid 70s)
2. NF and BNP skins (UK Boneheads - mid 70s)
3. American SHARP skins (80s)

Bikers and HC fans with bald heads, combat trousers and leather jackets are not skinheads.

Click to expand...

I have no particular expectations in terms of type and political division, it is for a college project and we are researching into subcultures, i just have been told to find an interviewee who will be willing to answer a few questions in as much detail as possible in order to gain opinions and views from those who are involved in the subculture. Feel free to correct some of my questions if needs be.

These will be my questions: (plus maybe a few more)

1. How would you class yourself in terms of skinhead type? (e.g oi, american ska punk, an original)
2. How did you first become interested in the skinhead movement?
3. In your opinion how has the subculture changed since it first began? Why has it changed?
4. The movement has been linked to a lot of political issues as well as racism. What is your view on this?
5. How would you characterize the skinhead movement nowadays?
6. What made you leave/stay within the skinhead subculture?

London Rudeboy said:

Well, like I said it depends on your frame of reference as regards time & place. In the early & mid 70s in west,north,south and east London, skinheads, rudeboys,suedeheads were all wearing loafers and brogues with their suits. That you have never seen it might have to do with your time period rather than geography.

Click to expand...

Faith Loafers early 70's yes, Weejuns no. I remember Weejuns being worn by some Mods in '79/'80, myself included although I preferred Dexters from Lloyd Johnson's shop in the King's Road. It was so strict what was acceptable to wear and if I or any of my mates in south London had worn Weejuns in the late '60's early '70's we'd have been laughed at....whether they looked cool or not. This has been gone over a few times on here and as you say, it depends on your frame of reference as regards time and place.