Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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that look got more popular in the 90s iirc and is actually still pretty popular today among certain types. plaid flannel shirts worn untucked. not a fan of that, a bit too "skinhead gangsta"

I agree with this being a 90's deal (also not a fan). Don't get me wrong, this was around early 80's, but it wasn't specific to skins. With no turnups, this look was really the prototype "cholo-punk" look, especially if the persons flannel was a Pendleton with the top 2-3 buttons fastened.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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Dickies were def the strides to wear back then, I dont think I wore a pair of jeans from about 1988-1994, only wore tapered Dickies in tan, black or navy.
Roger that, if I wasn't wearing tailored flat front pants, it was Dickies all the way (tan & grey getting the most play). Didn't wear jeans, & every pair of pants that I owned was not worn until tailored and pressed from about 82-92.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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-freshcut, -being "shaved in", -boot party,

-skinbyrd
Most of the time when I hear those terms, I throw up in my mouth. If I could have saved the throw-up accrued from mid 80's to present day, I could fill a swimming pool. Makes me resurrect this quote from page 5:

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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yes, they all need the Dr Marten dental plan

With no turnups, this look was really the prototype "cholo-punk" look, especially if the persons flannel was a Pendleton with the top 2-3 buttons fastened.

I have never seen a cholo punk look in Boston this is it: Ben Sherman untucked:

Originally Posted by OHT

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Hey M-o-M,
By any chance did you ever adopt any look/new style from the skinhead revival when you got back into it? Also, did you care much for Oi! music?

I think rather than adopting new things I revived one or two old things of my own. When Punk came along and I went out clubbing (in fact I moonlighted as a DJ in about 1980 for a couple of years, playing New Wave and Reggae, the Rastafarian/dub kind. I dug around in my closet and came up with an old, black-and-white-check Ben Sherman, some Levis, and a pair of boots. I wore that outfit with braces (sometimes up, sometimes down). It was a cut-back, harder version of my old self, and as I was a young-looking 30-year-old I could just about get away with it. At the time I started to do that there was a certain amount of "skinhead chic" amongst punks, but not an identifiable (or identifiably large) neo-skinhead movement.

Later, i.e. when I got to be middle-aged, all I was looking for was clothes that were "classic". I didn't want to dress like an old man on the one hand, and didn't want to dress like an old tosser who was trying to look young on the other. Things like brogues, loafers, well-cut jeans, Bens, lambswool V-necks, and a Harrington jacket look good on guys of any age. It's just a clean, "American" look, but one which has a kind of "I know where you started out" hint in Britain. Does that make sense? I have other gear as well like a leather reefer jacket, an A2 aviator's jacket, a few plain shirts not by BS, and an Italian sports jacket in silk/linen weave, so that means I can pick an mix my look a little so I don't always look as though I'm totally harking back to my past.

Someone mentioned wearing shirts hanging out. I can remember in the summer of 69 that occasionally guys would wear a short-sleeved, check BS or Brutus outside their Sta-Prest. It didn't look scruffy because of course those shirts were short in the waist and straight-cut.

As for Oi! music, I didn't get into it as such, but I'm sure I played one or two Oi! records when I was DJing.

By the way, my taste in music is, and always has been, very wide.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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I dont think 16 Years is supposed to be set in the 70s, I always took it as being set "now"ish. The scene where they are in that disco club, isnt the song playing after Claudette & Corporation an 80s tune? If anything I would have placed the time to be maybe early 90s. But the movie is a bit vague as to when it takes place, that I can remember. But I appreciated that McKidd's crew were fans of reggae etc, and not portrayed as Oi! skinheads, which is the usual portrayal in films and tv. And the choice to have them wear crombies rather than MA-1s definitely shows some clued up knowledge on the part of the filmmaker. yea McKidd and his gang are older than the typical skinhead crew, but I guess that resonated with me, since those guys would be about my age, as if it were some kind of validation that me being into this **** at my age somehow excuses me from being admitted into the looney bin.

Ok then it makes some sense, I thought I read somewhere that it was supposed to play in the early 70s. Thought it was some misguided attempt, with the Bruce Lee posters and iggy & the stooges. Still real vague what timeline its's supposed to play.

Originally Posted by loempiavreter

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Ok then it makes some sense, I thought I read somewhere that it was supposed to play in the early 70s. Thought it was some misguided attempt, with the Bruce Lee posters and iggy & the stooges. Still real vague what timeline its's supposed to play.

loempiavreter, I think you're right. The beginning of the film is set sometime in the 80's. Then it flashbacks to when the main character is a young kid in the 60's. The main parts with the skinhead gang are definately set early to mid 70's IMO. I don't think the characters are supposed to be in their 30's, though the actors may be, more like early 20's. I'm not sure of the authenticity of the gear though, I thought it would be more 'boot-boy' by this time with longer hair. However trad-skinhead style may have sustained longer in Scotland, as it did in pockets elsewhere pre-punk.

BTW The director is Richard Jobson, he was in the Skids and was later on a TV presenter in the 80's.

Don't think this has been mentioned before...

Jake Arnott's novel 'The Long Firm' has a character in it called Jack based loosely on 'Jack the Hat McVitie' who was murdered by the Krays. Anyway there is a junior gangster called Beardsley who in the book changes from a Mod to a Skinhead. The book gives some detailed descriptions of his clobber...

The book was adapted into a BBC TV series in 2004. The whole series is well worth watching however episode 3 deals with Jack's (renamed Jimmy) story (played by Phil Daniels! Jimmy - geddit ) ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQe0_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fld6Q...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3w19...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64PV...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeAIr...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgj2l...eature=related

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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I think rather than adopting new things I revived one or two old things of my own. When Punk came along and I went out clubbing (in fact I moonlighted as a DJ in about 1980 for a couple of years, playing New Wave and Reggae, the Rastafarian/dub kind. I dug around in my closet and came up with an old, black-and-white-check Ben Sherman, some Levis, and a pair of boots. I wore that outfit with braces (sometimes up, sometimes down). It was a cut-back, harder version of my old self, and as I was a young-looking 30-year-old I could just about get away with it. At the time I started to do that there was a certain amount of "skinhead chic" amongst punks, but not an identifiable (or identifiably large) neo-skinhead movement. Later, i.e. when I got to be middle-aged, all I was looking for was clothes that were "classic". I didn't want to dress like an old man on the one hand, and didn't want to dress like an old tosser who was trying to look young on the other. Things like brogues, loafers, well-cut jeans, Bens, lambswool V-necks, and a Harrington jacket look good on guys of any age. It's just a clean, "American" look, but one which has a kind of "I know where you started out" hint in Britain. Does that make sense? I have other gear as well like a leather reefer jacket, an A2 aviator's jacket, a few plain shirts not by BS, and an Italian sports jacket in silk/linen weave, so that means I can pick an mix my look a little so I don't always look as though I'm totally harking back to my past. Someone mentioned wearing shirts hanging out. I can remember in the summer of 69 that occasionally guys would wear a short-sleeved, check BS or Brutus outside their Sta-Prest. It didn't look scruffy because of course those shirts were short in the waist and straight-cut. As for Oi! music, I didn't get into it as such, but I'm sure I played one or two Oi! records when I was DJing. By the way, my taste in music is, and always has been, very wide.
That's very interesting. I never understood the whole wearing braces down part but I guess(like you stated) it was just to give a hard edge.Hey, to your knowledge, do you remember the last Ska/Reggae song or album that was popular before skinhead went out? I like this song very much but the album came out in 72' so just curious if it was still popular by then:
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Originally Posted by OHT

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That's very interesting. I never understood the whole wearing braces down part but I guess(like you stated) it was just to give a hard edge.Hey, to your knowledge, do you remember the last Ska/Reggae song or album that was popular before skinhead went out? I like this song very much but the album came out in 72' so just curious if it was still popular by then:


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Braces, as I think I pointed out before, were worn by mods to make their trousers hang properly, and that's the only origin. (The "hard edge" I was talking about was just a personal whim at the time of punk).

Reggae never really stopped being popular with someone somewhere. I still enjoyed it "after skinhead". I can't really remember what the last "hit" single of that "era" was.

Can't help wishing there was one from the late 60s

^^ yea I'm surprised there really arent that many pics from 60s, considering how big skinhead was for that era's youth. I guess no one had the foresight to properly document it in pictures, a shame.

I think we were caught between a rock and a hard place. Chris Welch's attitude was common in the music press, and then along came the tabloids when everybody's younger brothers started getting into football violence and so on. So no one really documented the fashion aspect of it. If anything the girls fared worse in that respect than the blokes. But there must be some more pics out there somewhere, in people's old albums, in the loft, wherever.

Anyhow, amongst ourselves the idea of actually posing for photos would have been thought of as "too flash". That's one reason I don't have many of myself. There's a difference between being "a bit flash" and "too flash". If you were the latter, someone would be likely to want to take you down a peg or two. I had that happen to me a couple of times and I just had to brazen my way out of it.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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This is an excellent collection of skinhead photos from the late 70s England.

One of the things that is interesting from those photos is it demonstates how young some of those kids were. For instance this pic of the kids in Carnaby St

http://www.derekridgers.com/index/m...start/192/Skinheads;-subculture;-the-'80.html

IMO a lot of this was down to the influence of Madness, who were huge with young kids and also Bad Manners were v. popular. And of course the influence of older brothers & kids in the local neighbourhoods.

Also the crossover between some of the faces photographed by Nick Knight.

GS, do you know of any photos of later '80s crews such as the Camden Stylists or Glasgow's Spy Kids? These would fit in more with the trad skin/suedehead look.

I remember being impressed by a feature in The Face circa 87 with the Camden crew & seeing how authentic and sharp they looked (at the time anyway). A few years later I used to drink occasionally in the Elephants Head, Camden (a renowned trad skin pub) & the guys that were in there were seemed really sussed.

I've drank at the Ellie's Head with the Camden boys as well....yes they are a really sussed lot and very cool guys. I've heard rumours they were trying to find a new pub in Kentish Town as the Ellie Head seems to have lost its flavor with so many "tourists" (aka knucklehead skins from other countries) that show up and cause problems. But far as I know, the Head is still the place to grab a sunday evening drink. I've seen various pics of the Glasgow Spy Kids (apart from cover of Spirit of 69 which has Big Ian and Wee Iain)....i remember a shot that has a bunch of them hanging out on the street and one of the guys has parallels on that are super wide. But aside from those few I dont really know of any other Spy Kids pics. here's a pic from the Ellie Head, with some of the Camden skins