Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Can you find a copy of the pic from Nick Knight's book for us?

Don't have a scanner but here's a link (pg 9). I'd guess the photo is about '67 but the skinhead looks about a year or 2 ahead:



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1...page&q&f=false

Wow, you are all gentlemen and scholars!
Intro: I'm from L.A. (Hollywood area) and I have been lurking this thread for the past 2 years. From what I can tell, my background (see skinhead) is similar to Get Smarts. Around '81 I was into 2 Tone which then brought 60's steady/ska/regay into the mix (and later very large quantities of Oi!). At that point in L.A., if you had a #2 crop, sported wrap around shades and looked different, the entire "normal" population classified you as a punker and you would regularly get screamed at / threatened, and / or have **** thrown at you from moving vehicles etc.

Living through that kind of stuff and dealing with that on a daily basis had a direct influence on who I was and what I wanted to be. Long story short, I became a punk and then came back to Skinhead about 3 years later. With that background set, for me, Skinhead is not a fad type subculture (as discussed early in these threads) and has been quite literally the clichà d "way of life" because myself and the crew I ran with, literally lived and died together. IMO that sort of "us against the world" thing breeds a tighter bond when you are an active participant. -This is probably the reason that I am 43 years old and still take a HUGE amount of my sartorial queues from Skinhead. I also do not consider myself an "ex" or "retired skin" as I more closely consider myself "non-active duty" status

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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yea at the time I was living in Pasadena then Orange County so quite a bit south of her. But I'm 99.9% sure we were at many of the same gigs, esp since we used to drive up to Reseda Country Club for gigs on weekends religiously, and that isnt too far from her stomping grounds.
GS, I was at the Country Club ALLOT back then as well. I also lived in Pasadena for about a year around 84-85. At that time there was a considerably large amount of Skins on the scene (at least 100, with many of them being well geared up and riding scoots / primarily claiming north side firm). Was that your experience in Pasadena? Side Note: I was at Fenders (in Long Beach) for most of the gigs as well (mainly punk not ska, but again, many skins showed up for those shows back then).

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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but Vic from those bands recorded my oi band's demo back in 2004.
Do you have any of your bands sounds ripped to digi?

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Can you find a copy of the pic from Nick Knight's book for us?
Heres the pic to keep it contained in the thread:

Edit:

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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I'd guess the photo is about '67 but the skinhead looks about a year or 2 ahead:
This quote from the book may explain the picture:

Originally Posted by Nick Knight - Skinhead

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This book is my photographic vision of London's East End skinheads.All the photos were taken between 1980 and 1981 and nearly all were shot in the vicinity of Petticoat Lane.

This comment in the article rings a bell with me:
"Another "˜hair thing' is that you would soon have grown tired of attracting attention from the old Bill (police) let alone not gaining access to nightclubs full stop. I think that one is called natural progression or common sense really."

I used to hitch-hike all round the UK, and people would pick me up because I had short hair. Then the "skinhead" thing erupted in the newspapers and people stopped picking me up.

Regarding music, I can well recall having an argument with two of the first skinheads in my locale to grow their hair. They were sick of Reggae, and said "...It's all the same - guitar chord on the second and fourth beat, drum on the third..." True enough, I said to them, but that didn't stop it being enjoyable. (But then I had always liked all kinds of music, so I don't think I was typical in that respect anyway.)

double

Originally Posted by Con Seanery

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GS, I was at the Country Club ALLOT back then as well. I also lived in Pasadena for about a year around 84-85. At that time there was a considerably large amount of Skins on the scene (at least 100, with many of them being well geared up and riding scoots / primarily claiming north side firm). Was that your experience in Pasadena? Side Note: I was at Fenders (in Long Beach) for most of the gigs as well (mainly punk not ska, but again, many skins showed up for those shows back then). Do you have any of your bands sounds ripped to digi?
yes Fenders was our regular stomping grounds too before the place got shut down. I remember the riot that happened after the place burned down and they were holding shows in the adjacent room, MDC was to headline and after Insted played they kicked everyone out cuz fire marshall said oversold and then cops+angry punkers = bad news for downtown 2nd street as the kids were running down the street, cops hitting kids with their truncheons, kids kicking in shop windows and running over parked cars denting them all in. We were running down with Franco from MDC and it amusing cuz he kept turning around and yelling "******* pigs"! haha NS Firm I remember, a lot of those old crews are still around in some form today. Do you remember the shop on Colorado that was run by 2 ladies, they would go to London couple times a year and bring back gear to resell? Cant for the life of me remember what it was called... here's a link to a guy's blog that has my old band for download, enjoy the trainwreck! good pick up on Knight's quote there, answers that question succinctly.

Originally Posted by Con Seanery

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the entire “normal” population classified you as a punker and you would regularly get screamed at / threatened, and / or have **** thrown at you from moving vehicles etc.
lol, i remember that very well. i did a lot of walking (and buses) back then, and it was normal for someone to drive by yelling something like "hey you ******* punk rock ******" and want to fight you. Kids today really do have it easy being a punk, skin, whatever. I hear this stuff going on in the news about gay kids being taunted and while I agree that no one should be taunted because of what he's into (of course I say this with the hindsight of an old geezer who has matured a bit ), I cant help but think how soft and overly sensitive people have gotten. Getting abuse was a daily ritual back then if you were into the stuff *we* were. I'm sure the abuse was much greater if you were a skinhead in 68/69

Heres the pic to keep it contained in the thread:

Edit: This quote from the book may explain the picture:[/quote]

Cheers for posting the photo Con....

...however ....

I've dug out the book and the photo is captioned 'early skin with mods, April 1967'.

Basically the 2nd half of the book from pg 52 onwards is Knight's East End photo's but the 1st half is press photos (see photo credits). There is a great shot on pg 19 from 1970 Bank Holiday Monday at Southend (Easter probably).

Having looked at the photo again and reflecting on what MoM says about denim I'd guess the photo could be from the North as the lads are virtually all wearing denim (jackets and jeans). That geezer is at least a year ahead in style though (particulary if it is oop' North! )....

I've lurked this thread for a long time - while I don't have much to add, I'm glad to see mention (amongst the quality info) of Insted/Hard Stance/Inside Out etc. My east coast upbringing in the early and mid 90s saw a lot of influence from those sort of bands.

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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Having looked at the photo again and reflecting on what MoM says about denim I'd guess the photo could be from the North as the lads are virtually all wearing denim (jackets and jeans). That geezer is at least a year ahead in style though (particulary if it is oop' North!

)....

yep I just had a look at my copy as well, and it is captioned as 1967 photo. Dont think I ever paid much attention to that caption (esp as it's written sideways and kinda easy to miss), but it is pretty amazing how ahead of his time that one fella is.

a small bit of info from an original 68 London skin I was chatting with a couple days ago, he mentions that re: denim....the sewn down cuff wasnt done in the original days. The amount of turnup depended on how much the Shrink to Fit jeans shrank, and could be as little as half inch to upwards of 1+ inches depending on how much was needed to not break on the shoe. Makes sense as I dont think I've ever seen sewn down cuffs on pics from 60s, it being more of a "new breed" revival affectation from the early 80s. Just as a bit of trivia, he told me a while ago that the jeans preferred back then were 1967 Levis 505 or Lee 101z, all selvedge of course. He's even puzzled on why most modern skins don't care about selvedge jeans since he and his mates were all about it in '68, and even back then enjoyed showing off the selvedge seam on the turnups.

Originally Posted by RandallStephens

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I'm glad to see mention (amongst the quality info) of Insted/Hard Stance/Inside Out etc.

i bust out my hard stance 7" every once in awhile just to see zac de la rocha all young and x'ed up on the guitar. such a great pic of him in that record.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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yep I just had a look at my copy as well, and it is captioned as 1967 photo. Dont think I ever paid much attention to that caption (esp as it's written sideways and kinda easy to miss), but it is pretty amazing how ahead of his time that one fella is.

a small bit of info from an original 68 London skin I was chatting with a couple days ago, he mentions that re: denim....the sewn down cuff wasnt done in the original days. The amount of turnup depended on how much the Shrink to Fit jeans shrank, and could be as little as half inch to upwards of 1+ inches depending on how much was needed to not break on the shoe. Makes sense as I dont think I've ever seen sewn down cuffs on pics from 60s, it being more of a "new breed" revival affectation from the early 80s. Just as a bit of trivia, he told me a while ago that the jeans preferred back then were 1967 Levis 505 or Lee 101z, all selvedge of course. He's even puzzled on why most modern skins don't care about selvedge jeans since he and his mates were all about it in '68, and even back then enjoyed showing off the selvedge seam on the turnups.

I noticed that too in photos, but it is one thing I think the revival did right, looks so much cleaner. And I also think selvedge denim looks so much nicer (like the sewn down turnup, cleaner/smarter) but I'm having a hard time finding some for a decent price... Most likely I'll try to find some vintage Levi's rather than considering modern selvedge..

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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yes Fenders was our regular stomping grounds too before the place got shut down.
We used to get there about 2 hours early, go in the alley to the right side, go behind that building and climb up the inside of the locked up fire ladder to the roof. Once secured on the rooftop with 15 heads and a few cases, it was on. Cops couldn't find us and we were drinking in public, occasionally doing stupid things from that vantage point. We often snuck into Fenders through the second floor as well.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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I hung out with a couple kids from Pasadena Skins, some independents from Arcadia/Temple City area. Do you remember the shop on Colorado that was run by 2 ladies, they would go to London couple times a year and bring back gear to resell? Cant for the life of me remember what it was called...
here's a link to a guy's blog that has my old band for download, enjoy the trainwreck!
good pick up on Knight's quote there, answers that question succinctly.
I was based in the Arcadia/Temp City area. The haunt was Live Oak Park. The first skin I knew was a cat with the nick "Wolf" (dude was very smart, and equally brutal). That neighborhood near the park housed at minimum, 6 punks, 2 skins and 3 mods. For me, that was heaven...
I can probably get the name of the shop, but at present -the name alludes me. My girlfriend at the time (skingirl named Kyla) worked there, and it was fantastic because it was not strange for her to walk up to me on a Friday with a nice hat & / or new FP and just bust out the "here, I got this for you, wear it tonight". Yeah this was a chick using me like a Ken doll, but ****, the gear was tight and she was a face. For the time, she was stellar. Just pristine with like a Benetton skirt, Bloody DM 1460's with contrast laces, FP with v-neck tank, red fringe, patent white purse & blah blah blah (she was an Oi Boi hearthrob). -Only girl I dated with a fringe though. For the most part I was with Mods.
GS: I have actually heard your band & I like it! Nice! Note: I have been looking at that dudes blog every other week for atleast a year now

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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it was normal for someone to drive by yelling something like "hey you ******* punk rock ******" and want to fight you.
I almost fell down laughing at this. If I had a dollar for every time the exact sentence was screamed at me, I would not have a mortgage bill.

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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...however ....

I've dug out the book and the photo is captioned 'early skin with mods, April 1967'.
Having looked at the photo again and reflecting on what MoM says about denim I'd guess the photo could be from the North as the lads are virtually all wearing denim (jackets and jeans). That geezer is at least a year ahead in style though (particulary if it is oop' North!

)....
I gave it the college try . I must admit, before looking at the pic I automatically assumed the answer was what you stated about the denim boys from the North. Maybe MoM can assist with a confirmation (or not) on this.
And finally: MoM, I love reading your threads! Please keep it up, this is fantastic! If I was smart, I would have cards made with a link to this thread. So when the 1.3 million knuckleheads per year ask me about the "skin" thing, I could just hand them the card & bark "read up Johnny boy" -and call it a day! Between you, GS & some others, we got freaking Skinhead Doctors up in here...

I'd say North too.

The idea of the cards sounds good!

I do like the idea of a doctorate in skinhead-ology

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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I do like the idea of a doctorate in skinhead-ology

God forbid!