Australian Members

Forgot about shipping. Was once told by a lecturer at uni that something like out of every $1 dollar spent in retail, 60 cents went to transportation costs.

I didn't know it was that high but our geographic isolation is a big factor.

High st fashion retailers in Europe have a lot of stuff made in low-labour cost countries like Turkey, Portugal and Eastern Europe, but this stuff never makes it to Australia.

Low cost (and a lot of higher cost) clothing available in Aus is almost exclusively made in China - simply because it's closer and it doesn't make economic sense to ship a EUR100 jacket made in Turkey to Australia and sell it for 3 times what it sells for in Europe.

It will be interesting to see what Zara does when they open in Sydney. The bulk of their stuff is Euro or Turkish made in their European stores, but I can't see that business model working in Sydney. We are too far from those manufacturing centres, and also counter-seasonal to their (until now) exclusively northern hemisphere market.

My guess is we will get a lot of Zara designs manufactured in China, and the fashion will be at a comparatively higher price point to what the brand sells in Europe and the US. It will also be interesting to see if they can turn over their stock here as quickly as they do in their normal stores.

I'd also factor in the percpetion that something can't be 'luxurious' and 'prestigous' if it doesn't cost $2,000.

When someone walks into Henry Bucks or Harrolds, they want to spend lots of money, and they want to feel good doing it. The actual quality of the garment is almost irrelevant, which is why Henry Bucks will sell you a Boss suit for $1400. It's all about perceptions of luxury and prestige.

There are places in Melbourne where you can buy your quality menswear at a fraction of the cost of these places. However, they are often plain looking shops. There is no marble entrance, no mahogony stairway or people who call you 'sir'. The question is, even if your average Henry Bucks/Harrolds purchaser knew of its existence.... would they still go there? Or would the reality of the shop facade alter the perceptions of 'luxury' and 'prestige'?

In other words, does if make someone feel better to spend $2000 on a suit in a luxury deparment store, as opposed to buying the same suit for $1000 from plain shopfront?

Nice suits are like nice cars. Some buy them for the intrinsic quality and value they have and make informed choices based on construction methods etc, whilst others just buy them as part of an eternal pissing contest to keep up with their mates.

I should mention that I dropped by the Canali boutique in Sydney the other day. It was glorious. Rows and rows of unstructured Kei Jackets, lots of colourful casual wear..which in fact took up half the shop. The other half was dedicated to suits/formal wear...but even then there were some unlined linen/wool suits and some double breasted suits in amongst the charcoal grey corporate uniforms.

Shame about the prices!

I kind of agree with your point PG, but all those new money wankers that like to show off their wealth don't shop at Henry Bucks surely? I would have thought it was a bit fuddy duddy for all those IT millionaires and corporate analysts - plus no one would notice they spend $700 on their Churches loafers...

Most of the douches that drive around in Porche Boxters and live in McMansions or the Toaster don't buy quality menswear full stop - they're interested in making a point, hence the burberry trenchcoats and gold rolexes, and magenta RL polo shirts.

Maybe if the old money upper classes here were greater in number there would be a corresponding increase in the market for English shoes, tailor made suits etc., leading to more choice and availability of said items at non-ridiculous prices.

At the moment though, the influx of new money in this country has led instead to the establishment of overpriced boutiques for Ferragamo, Louis Vuitton and Cartier. That's where the cahed-up bogans shop to make a statement with their over-priced "luxury" logo bags and SS Commodores.

Originally Posted by __PG__

Click to expand...

There are places in Melbourne where you can buy your quality menswear at a fraction of the cost of these places. However, they are often plain looking shops. There is no marble entrance, no mahogony stairway or people who call you 'sir'. The question is, even if your average Henry Bucks/Harrolds purchaser knew of its existence.... would they still go there? Or would the reality of the shop facade alter the perceptions of 'luxury' and 'prestige'?

Where are these places in Melbourne?

I agree with you both, PG and PoP, about the cashed up bogan segment, and especially about the feeling many Aussies have about high price = quality.

No doubt most of the cashed up new money types head to Harrolds. Was asked by a well off friend of mine to pop in there with him one day where he proceeded to drop a couple of grand on an off the rack suit (cannot remember the maker) and a pair of santoni loafers for $700 ... despite my strong pleas not to.

I've since stopped offering to help my friends out when shopping.

^Hey, at least you're not bidding against him for stuff on Ebay if he's that silly.

Re : places in Melbourne. I've mentioned Azzaro in South Melbourne before and I'll mention it again. If you are going to go down, PM me and I'll tell you who to talk to. Having talked to Sebastion at American Tailors at lot (mostly about Formula One, but occasionally about clothes), the other point he makes is that the generic Aussie gent isn't educated about menswear, its not part of his culture. When American Tailors have D'Avenza suits on sale for $595, or Isaia for $1200, or whole-cut handgrade Crockett and Jones for $425 (as they did this winter)..is there a line of people in the street battling their way to get in? Nope..only a few nerds from an internet forum Because the generic Aussie gent has never heard of Crockett and Jones or Isaia...they don't understand the quality that they are getting. Its easy (as Price of Paisely says) to walk into a big brand-name fashion boutique and splash the cash...rather than to do your research and get educated. I caught up with an old friend of mine in Sydney recently (born in Australia to Italian migrants). He was living in Northern Italy for a decade and has recently returned home. He came to dinner wearing a T-shirt and jeans...standard Sydney fare...but he remarked that "there is no way I would dress like this going out to dinner with friends back in Italy." It's the culture of expectations as to what constitutes appropriate dress...and the education that goes with that. Of course, we all know that it wasn't always this way. People on this forum talk of the huge lines at Fletcher Jones that used to exist back their heyday...or when you look at old pictures of the MCG where everyone attends wearing a suit and a hat. Re : Harrolds - the only Harrolds suit I'm tempted at is Caruso on sale. They'll sell you one for about $1400, which I suppose is reasonable value for the quality of the suit.

Originally Posted by Prince of Paisley

Click to expand...

^Hey, at least you're not bidding against him for stuff on Ebay if he's that silly.

Funny that. Everyone asks me where I get my stuff from, and I tell them the internet. I'm happy to direct them here, ebay, shot the finest, e-haberdasher etc.

Only 1 person of about 15 or so that I've given this advice to has taken it seriously and has had a bit of a look around online. He's forty and already well dressed guy (by Oz standards). Even the younger guys I know, in their mid-20s cannot be bothered with going online. Even if I offer to measure them up so they can pick stuff up in their size.

Originally Posted by __PG__

Click to expand...

whole-cut handgrade Crockett and Jones for $425 (as they did this winter)..is there a line of people in the street battling their way to get in? Nope..only a few nerds from an internet forum

Re : Harrolds - the only Harrolds suit I'm tempted at is Caruso on sale. They'll sell you one for about $1400, which I suppose is reasonable value for the quality of the suit.

$425 for Handgrade C & J's... damn

You can pick up Caruso suits from eHaberdasher for $500 - $700 US. Granted the selection is limited, but still a great price

Originally Posted by appolyon

Click to expand...

Funny that. Everyone asks me where I get my stuff from, and I tell them the internet. I'm happy to direct them here, ebay, shot the finest, e-haberdasher etc.

Only 1 person of about 15 or so that I've given this advice to has taken it seriously and has had a bit of a look around online. He's forty and already well dressed guy (by Oz standards). Even the younger guys I know, in their mid-20s cannot be bothered with going online. Even if I offer to measure them up so they can pick stuff up in their size.

I buy almost exclusively online now. As long as you're comfortable with your sizing, great savings can be had. Being a member here helps as well... ManOfKent has helped me with Loake sizing more than once and has been very helpful.

Originally Posted by Prince of Paisley

Click to expand...

I didn't know it was that high but our geographic isolation is a big factor.

High st fashion retailers in Europe have a lot of stuff made in low-labour cost countries like Turkey, Portugal and Eastern Europe, but this stuff never makes it to Australia.

Low cost (and a lot of higher cost) clothing available in Aus is almost exclusively made in China - simply because it's closer and it doesn't make economic sense to ship a EUR100 jacket made in Turkey to Australia and sell it for 3 times what it sells for in Europe.

It will be interesting to see what Zara does when they open in Sydney. The bulk of their stuff is Euro or Turkish made in their European stores, but I can't see that business model working in Sydney. We are too far from those manufacturing centres, and also counter-seasonal to their (until now) exclusively northern hemisphere market.

My guess is we will get a lot of Zara designs manufactured in China, and the fashion will be at a comparatively higher price point to what the brand sells in Europe and the US. It will also be interesting to see if they can turn over their stock here as quickly as they do in their normal stores.

Zara has several contract manufacturers ranging from Europe (Romania, Turkey etc) to Asian (Vietnam, China etc) countries and the models available in the Asian stores are not as many as in Zara Europe. I believe it is the same as the Zara US.
The Asian stores receive some models from Europe and the remaining are supplied by the Asian made factories while the European stores are supplied more by the Eastern European made.
Still a guess but I think Zara Australia store may receive the off season stocks from those countries and sell them here at full price.

Buying online is very tricky though as its very difficult to find detailed sizing information.

E.g. I know I fit a Canali 52 Drop 7 R(or L) model 13xxxx/xx. I bought a 2nd-hand one of eBay, and I've bid on a few 2nd-hand ones too. I've tried on the Drop 6 model 12xxx/xx at Henry Bucks and its a dull sack...I've tried on the Drop 8 model 14xxx/xx on David Jones and its too tight. You can get detailed information like this on eBay (or on this forum), but there is no sizing information on Yoox and their doesn't seem to be much on eHaberdasher either.

Originally Posted by __PG__

Click to expand...

I caught up with an old friend of mine in Sydney recently (born in Australia to Italian migrants). He was living in Northern Italy for a decade and has recently returned home. He came to dinner wearing a T-shirt and jeans...standard Sydney fare...but he remarked that "there is no way I would dress like this going out to dinner with friends back in Italy."

It's the culture of expectations as to what constitutes appropriate dress...and the education that goes with that.

Couldn't agree more with this.

Coming back recently from Italy it was relieving to be able to go down to the shops in thongs and a singlet and not get a second look, rather than worry about whether my pocket square went with my shirt and whether or not I looked too much like an American tourist before I went out in public.

The idea of the passagiata hasn't really caught on in Aus.

Originally Posted by Prince of Paisley

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more with this.

Coming back recently from Italy it was relieving to be able to go down to the shops in thongs and a singlet and not get a second look, rather than worry about whether my pocket square went with my shirt and whether or not I looked too much like an American tourist before I went out in public.

The idea of the passagiata hasn't really caught on in Aus.

Wow Italy sounds so extreme. However, La passeggiata sounds like a fine idea to me. Be great if Aust is more of half way in between Aust now and Italy. I was in am unbuttoned, untucked white shirt, in jeans and sneakers the other night and a friend asked me why I was so dressed up... and I wasn't even wearing any socks!

Originally Posted by __PG__

Click to expand...

Re : places in Melbourne. I've mentioned Azzaro in South Melbourne before and I'll mention it again. If you are going to go down, PM me tell you who to talk to.

...

I caught up with an old friend of mine in Sydney recently (born in Australia to Italian migrants). He was living in Northern Italy for a decade and has recently returned home. He came to dinner wearing a T-shirt and jeans...standard Sydney fare...but he remarked that "there is no way I would dress like this going out to dinner with friends back in Italy."

It's the culture of expectations as to what constitutes appropriate dress...and the education that goes with that.

Of course, we all know that it wasn't always this way. People on this forum talk of the huge lines at Fletcher Jones that used to exist back their heyday...or when you look at old pictures of the MCG where everyone attends wearing a suit and a hat.

Re : Harrolds - the only Harrolds suit I'm tempted at is Caruso on sale. They'll sell you one for about $1400, which I suppose is reasonable value for the quality of the suit.

I don't know anything about Azzaro, please tell me more. I live close to South Melbourne.

Australians definately dress more casually than Italians, as a general rule. I have mixed feelings about whether that is a good thing or bad thing. I think I would prefer if Australian men dressed better in general. Even working in the city in Melbourne I am depressed by the poor choice in business clothes - black suits, square toe shoes, horrible shirts and ties etc

I have purchased Caruso suits on sale from Harrolds and would do so again. They are very nice and the price (on sale) is not unreasonable IMO.

Originally Posted by JohnsNotHere

Click to expand...

I buy almost exclusively online now. As long as you're comfortable with your sizing, great savings can be had. Being a member here helps as well... ManOfKent has helped me with Loake sizing more than once and has been very helpful.

Me too, apart from suits which I continue to buy in-store. Shirts from Cottonworks and TM Lewin, ties from H&H and Sam Hober (and sometimes Herringbone), shoes from Pediwear, cufflinks from retrocufflinks.com.au (yep, an Aussie site) ...