Australian Members



Prince of Paisley said:

Wool does tend to smell if it gets wet though. If you've ever worn a woollen jumper for a bit in the rain you'll know what I mean. In the case of a good wool suit airing overnight usually fixes the issue so it's not a big deal, particularly if there is no poly lining.

As for socks, does anyone wear woollen ones in summer? Genuine question; I generally avoid them at this time of year because they are noticeably hotter to me than thin cotton socks (as you'd expect).

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I am not sure if you're drawing a distinction between "wet" and "sweat"?

Wool wicks moisture a lot better than cotton. If cotton gets wet or sweaty, it stays that way for a long time. This leads to smells.

I wear Smartwool merino socks in summer - they never really smell, even after a solid day of walking. I can't stand thin socks, though.

Most good quality ski socks and baselayers are wool these days too, or poly, but not cotton.

If poly gets sweaty a few times it retains a smell that just can't be removed, though. So wool is the fabric of choice out of the three.

So all in all, cotton socks would have to make me sweat substantially less to make up for it's drawbacks in terms of wicking and smell and, for me, it just doesn't work. Maybe in a very thin sock but, as I said, I don't like thin socks personally. I suppose one advantage of cotton which I acknowledge is that it can be woven far thinner than wool and still be reasonably durable. It's also cheaper.

boff said:

fxh said:

A lot of summer - or hot days - to me - is about looking summery rather than any actual temperature difference.

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Exactly. I think the reasoning in this article is a bit dubious, but the basic logic is that black material radiates heat better than white. So on a hot day unless you are standing in direct sunlight you should be better off in black. And I am only talking colour here (OK, black/white) and not flannel/super 150/cotton etc..

However, I'm fully with the sentiment that looking summery (i.e. light/airy etc) will keep you cool regardless.

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Strictly speaking I believe that is true, however the practical effect will likely be indistinguishable to the wearer, since the radiation levels will be very low. For the times you are in sunlight though, the difference in absorption and subsequent heating effect of black over white will be very noticeable, so I know which direction I'd be leaning.



Journeyman said:

In any case, I think that the thing that makes us feel hottest when standing outside on a sunny day is the sunlight, not our own body heat..

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I agree - if you have a look at what I wrote, I specifically said "unless you are standing in direct sunlight you should be better off in black".

Think about the African dudes in dark black/blue robes. The colour works for them because they are not so dumb as to hang around in direct sunlight all day.



lachyzee said:

I am not sure if you're drawing a distinction between "wet" and "sweat"?

Wool wicks moisture a lot better than cotton. If cotton gets wet or sweaty, it stays that way for a long time. This leads to smells.

I wear Smartwool merino socks in summer - they never really smell, even after a solid day of walking. I can't stand thin socks, though.

Most good quality ski socks and baselayers are wool these days too, or poly, but not cotton.

If poly gets sweaty a few times it retains a smell that just can't be gotton rid of, though. So wool is the fabric of choice out of the three.

So all in all, cotton socks would have to make me sweat substantially less to make up for it's drawbacks in terms of wicking and smell and, for me, it just doesn't work. Maybe in a very thin sock but, as I said, I don't think thin socks. I suppose one advantage of cotton which I acknowledge is that it can be woven far thinner than wool and still be reasonably durable. It's also cheaper.

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I think I agree with you but I draw some different conclusions.

Cotton doesn't stay wet in warm, dry weather - actually it uses your body heat to dry itself. Wool on the other hand, as you say, wicks moisture and will keep you warm even when it is wet, hence it's good for skiing, hiking, bushwalking etc. when you want to keep your body heat even if you get rained/snowed on. Cotton on the other hand can give you hypothermia if you get soaked on a bushwalk, and will stay wet and smell if it's cold and damp (or if it's a sock in a hot sweaty shoe...)

But if your aim is to keep cool on a hot summer's day, by that logic, I think cotton for chinos/shirts/jackets can be better if you sweat a bit, because it's natural characteristic is to use heat to dry out quicker, and cool you down in the process.

Time to reclaim my title after some contenders started challenging (naming no names, thebrownman, NabiMust...).

Heavy lays the head foot that wears the crown pink sock.

Package from Howard Yount arrived including these -
http://linenforsummertweedforwinter.tumblr.com/post/44811264391/pink-socks


Also my Common Projects arrived from Kafka Clothing (ordered last Friday). I sized down on the advice of most sources (Elisix gave different advice here just after I had ordered). In terms of length they are perfect (with no extra space), they are a little narrow, particularly where I broke my foot last year, but nothing that will not give after a few wears. Could probably have gone the size up too and tighten them. Really like the sleek look. Wonder how long they will stay white.

Here they are (aiming for another "Mum, I am Tumblr famous" moment on sexyankles.tumblr.com - 3 months of 30 degree days and still white legs...) -
http://linenforsummertweedforwinter.tumblr.com/post/44811645116/bright-white-new-common-projects

Still awaiting my replacement popover from O&J (must be lost in the bowels of AusPost) and a pair of RRL selvedge jeans. Then I want a pair of Carmina string loafers and maybe a Henry Carter tie at the trunk show. Then I will aim to join the "No Purchase" club for a while, stop being so self indulgent and save money for more important things( until maybe a new P Johnson Tailor commission in September or so).



lennier said:

Strictly speaking I believe that is true, however the practical effect will likely be indistinguishable to the wearer, since the radiation levels will be very low. For the times you are in sunlight though, the difference in absorption and subsequent heating effect of black over white will be very noticeable, so I know which direction I'd be leaning.

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boff said:

I agree - if you have a look at what I wrote, I specifically said "unless you are standing in direct sunlight you should be better off in black".

Think about the African dudes in dark black/blue robes. The colour works for them because they are not so dumb as to hang around in direct sunlight all day.

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There is actually a line of thought that says black clothes are better for keeping you cool, even in direct sunlight, but at best, there is no difference between black and white.

Here is an interesting article - in Nature no less - that explains why black robes, burqas and even goats are preferred by the Bedouin:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5745/abs/283373a0.html



Prince of Paisley said:

As for socks, does anyone wear woollen ones in summer? Genuine question; I generally avoid them at this time of year because they are noticeably hotter to me than thin cotton socks (as you'd expect).

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I tend to wear the same kind of socks year round. My wool socks are slightly thicker than my cotton ones and over the years I've gotten used to the fit that the wool ones give me (david jones "computer socks"). They don't feel particularly hotter to me. And I don't like the way a thin cotton sock makes my foot slip around inside my shoe.

Gents - received my first Shipitto package yesterday, ordered a Brooks Bros OCBD. (better than my gitmans bros shirt) Very happy with service and speed, will definitely buy use again for postal forwarding.

re socks debate, im a big fan of uniqlo socks and cheap



Prince of Paisley said:

As for socks, does anyone wear woollen ones in summer? Genuine question; I generally avoid them at this time of year because they are noticeably hotter to me than thin cotton socks (as you'd expect).

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I wear wool socks in Summer find them cooler and dryer than cotton also I have found that in flat dry heat eg west of the divide linen is much more effective at keeping you cooler in the heat and I have always hand washed linen trousers, never been one for dry cleaning them.



Prince of Paisley said:

There is actually a line of thought that says black clothes are better for keeping you cool, even in direct sunlight, but at best, there is no difference between black and white.

Here is an interesting article - in Nature no less - that explains why black robes, burqas and even goats are preferred by the Bedouin:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5745/abs/283373a0.html

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Thanks for that, PoP.

The report notes: "...The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

I suspect that's because the robes are typically quite loose fitting (hence, robes) and thus allow air circulation between the cloth and skin. A lot of our more modern clothing styles are tighter-fitting and so probably don't permit as much air circulation. Hmmm... perhaps there is something to be said about wearing a baggy, ill-fitting suit after all!

Interestingly, I remember that Sator mentioned some years back about how he had commissioned quite a heavy wool suit (either DB or three-piece) that he was intending to wear in summer, and he posited that because Bedouins wear woollen robes in the desert, his woollen suit would actually help to keep him cooler in summer. I remember thinking at the time that the Bedouins were probably cooler because of air circulating under their robes, whereas he wouldn't get much air circulation with a close-fitting, DB or three-piece suit. I wonder how Sator's experiment fared...

Wool socks are the best for all year wear, summer or winter.



Geoffrey Firmin said:

Selvaggio I'm impressed the new Jonathan Zwart's CD! agree its brilliant the Sea is good CD as well.

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The Sea is great, but I think the new one is actually better. Do you have the limited release with the bonus disc? The two bonus tracks are just crazy good. He did some great work with Tina Harrod as well - love her recordings.

Hi all, I need a new suit. I want quality but I can't do off the rack as I have a weird body shape (I have weird long arms). I'm keen to try a tailored suit but I have no idea of tailoring in Adelaide or Melbourne. I live in Adelaide but I go to Melbourne regularly for work. Budget is about $1k. Any suggestions?



thebosschamp said:

Hi all, I need a new suit. I want quality but I can't do off the rack as I have a weird body shape (I have weird long arms). I'm keen to try a tailored suit but I have no idea of tailoring in Adelaide or Melbourne. I live in Adelaide but I go to Melbourne regularly for work. Budget is about $1k. Any suggestions?

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I suspect wait a little while then talk to Romp.



Journeyman said:

Thanks for that, PoP.

The report notes: "...The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

I suspect that's because the robes are typically quite loose fitting (hence, robes) and thus allow air circulation between the cloth and skin. A lot of our more modern clothing styles are tighter-fitting and so probably don't permit as much air circulation. Hmmm... perhaps there is something to be said about wearing a baggy, ill-fitting suit after all!

Interestingly, I remember that Sator mentioned some years back about how he had commissioned quite a heavy wool suit (either DB or three-piece) that he was intending to wear in summer, and he posited that because Bedouins wear woollen robes in the desert, his woollen suit would actually help to keep him cooler in summer. I remember thinking at the time that the Bedouins were probably cooler because of air circulating under their robes, whereas he wouldn't get much air circulation with a close-fitting, DB or three-piece suit. I wonder how Sator's experiment fared...

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All true JM - I have a lightweight DB jacket for summer but on really hot days I find it too restrictive compared to a SB jacket of the same material (unless you unbutton the DB and let the excess fabric flap about which isn't a good look).