I apologise, forgive me. I was probably trying to convince myself more than anything. I quoted you out of context. All things said and done, I agree with your original post!
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Australian Members - Page 3033post #45481 of 679462/13/14 at 5:11ampost #45482 of 679462/13/14 at 5:23am
I won't go on, but I can understand why the thread gets annoyed at the posts.
Along with half the members knowing Patrick in person, there's a certain internet forum gnarlishness that comes with the questioning, ala the so often heard: "I could get a chick to make me a bespoke suit in Vietnam for $50." It lacks respect for the service.
I can see why modern tailoring is going down this route - its the well fitted garment without the labour costs. For 99.999999% of the general public it will suffice.post #45483 of 679462/13/14 at 5:30ampost #45484 of 679462/13/14 at 5:40ampost #45485 of 679462/13/14 at 5:47ampost #45486 of 679462/13/14 at 6:08amQuote:Originally Posted by JimmyHoffa
A) Uses Italian fabrics and Italian tailoring houses (providing high quality hand finishing)
B) Measures you in person and customises the pattern to fit you
C) Provides unlimited alterations and fittings within a short period once the suit arrives and
D) Prices sub $2,000 for a suit?
Disclaimer - this is not meant as a criticism nor promotion of any tailors or gentleman's outfitting companies discussed or not discussed on this board.
A) is the main issue. I can find you tailors in Sydney CBD that can do fully canvassed (some padded by hand), altered patterns (even re-drafted), four fittings from baste from high quality Italian and English cloths, probably a 2-3 week turn around to first fitting, a little over $2000. However, it would be difficult to find you soft shoulders, let alone non-padded ones. Hand made button holes, horn buttons and pick stitching, possible. Factor in that small operations must buy pre-fabricated trimmings from suppliers at this price point, which may not be equal in quality to those accessible from a large Italian factory. Light canvasses, skirted trouser banding are all very difficult. Is the tailor using an updated block, or one optimized for your desired silhouette?
People would refer to such a service by multiple terms: bespoke, semi-bespoke or MTM. And what is a bespoke garment exactly? Perhaps all of the following: a totally new drafted pattern, an exacting alteration of a house style, having baste fittings, the best fabrics, top quality trimmings, hand finishes, padding the canvas by hand, made on Saville Row. Maybe 'The best tailor in town' in the 1960's, or the 'a good local tailor' 100 years ago.
You must choose the service that fits your requirements the best. This thread contains many suggestions, reviews, and for the very large part, people doing their best to help steer others in the right direction.
Edited by FredAstaire1899 - 2/13/14 at 7:39ampost #45487 of 679462/13/14 at 8:15ampost #45488 of 679462/13/14 at 12:15pmQuote:
PJ could make you a bespoke pair....
Haha, sorry couldn't resist. Definitely seen them around - Gant Rugger had a pair not too long ago. They shouldn't be too difficult to find - I am sure others will chime in with some helpful links.
What is your price range? And does it need to be local?post #45489 of 679462/13/14 at 12:34pmpost #45490 of 679462/13/14 at 12:38pmpost #45491 of 679462/13/14 at 12:38pmFor those who'll be in town, Chris and Nick Schaerf of Double Monk in Melbourne will be hosting George Glasgow Junior and Teemu Leppanen of GJ Cleverley, on March 14 and 15, including drinks at their boutique on the Friday night. I've just put up a new post with the information for the couple of days.
Unfortunately for everyone else, I'll be there too...
Edited by TimelessMan - 2/13/14 at 1:20pmpost #45492 of 679462/13/14 at 12:49pmQuote:
limited sizes though.post #45493 of 679462/13/14 at 12:57pm
Here's my layman's understanding of bespoke vs MTM:
With MTM, I can see an example of the garment before I order it, either hanging on a rack or in a catalog. The garment I order will be made with the same fabric, in the same style and cut. I may be able to specify minor customisations such as working vs. non-working sleeve buttons. I will then be measured up and the garment will be made to fit my specific body shape and size.
With bespoke, I have to specify style and cut, select the fabric, and outline all the various specifications - lapel width, shoulder style, structure, padding, canvassing, pocket style and placement, vents and so forth.
Recently I commissioned a suit from a Shanghai tailor. I selected the fabric and showed my tailor a photo of a suit in a catalog whose style I liked. I simply asked him to copy that style. I regard this as a fully bespoke commission.
In Sydney I could order a MTM suit from, say, the Canali boutique, or the Tom Ford booth at Harrolds. I doubt either shop could offer me a bespoke service.
Am I on the right track here?post #45494 of 679462/13/14 at 1:02pm
Anyone heard of "Tom James of Sydney"?
I was approached on the street yesterday by an attractive young lass who complimented me on my jacket (fresh from my tailor who had made some alterations to fit).
It's always nice to receive a compliment from a young lady.
Anyway, she handed me her business card. She works as a tailor (or perhaps "clothier", which is how she's described on the card) for the above firm.
Seems there are a few of these niche men's clothing firms starting up lately, especially in Melbourne. This is the first one I've heard of in Sydney.post #45495 of 679462/13/14 at 1:39pmProbably one of the plethora of offshore MTM operations that have popped up the last few years or so, but I could well be mistaken. If anyone has details of Tom James, feel free to share them here.
I'm old fashioned. I prefer bespoke to be referred to as bespoke and MTM to be referred to as MTM. You can get good results with both, exceptional results with both and I've used both, but be honest about the product you supply. I got full bespoke from Zink & Sons in Sydney (full floating canvas, handmade buttonholes, hand rolled lapels, horn buttons, Holland & Sherry wool, three fittings) for a little over $2,000. That was in 2010, so prices will no doubt have changed, but you can get the full service for not that much more than you pay for offshore MTM from certain companies. I've also used MTM, currently do so, with great results. You choose the service that gives you the product you want for the price you can afford. That's how it should be. No problem there.Quote:Also I think you will find the only true bespoke tailors in that article are Bijan and Cutler.
Incorrect. Zink is a bespoke tailor. Their suits are made in their upstairs workroom. New patterns are drafted, Robert or Daniel cut the patterns etc.Quote:but i'd hazard a guess and say were this forum not discussing pjohnson, but a lesser known retailer, or a retailer without the cult following pjohnson has on this board in particular, the distinction between bespoke and mto and tailor and fitter would suddenly become more relevant.
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