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post #36691 of 55006
Ignorantia juris non excusat
post #36692 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli2012 View Post

It's like a sphinx in the louvre - out of time and out of place.

Somehow i doubt that you have visited the Louvre, your analogy makes no sense, given the contents of the Louvre such as Babylonian artifacts. The flawed analogy reflects on the view you are attempting to assert.
post #36693 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post


 

 

Guys thanks for the input... looks like I'll have a peek at MJ Bale... might continue with hugo boss selection, its not bad on sale, and maybe some canali and zegna

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romp View Post

 

is that a reference to me? 

 

Either way im not following how does your preference for MJ Bale and Paul Smith coincides with your preference for the extremes? They are pretty mainstream, middle ground.

 

Extreme would be Lowes/Kelly Country vs bespoke savile rowe/naples based suit maker

 

hey mate, well, in part, and also its a reference to myself

 

To be honest MJ Bale and so on are probably towards the lower end that I would consider... I'd personally prefer not to go any lower even though lower does exist, equally at the high end I'd probably go a Brioni from Harrolds, but wont go higher although of course higher exists (I get very conscious wearing something that expensive, might spill coffee on it) 

post #36694 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by md2010 View Post


If I am not mistaken the cost of pair of boots is about $400. RMW claims to be bush out fitter. I wonder how many bush people can actually afford rmw.
In City rmw is mostly worn by guys who either 1. phony/Pretenders and or 2. who don't know any better and think guys in category 1 are real and try to replicate them.
That is my opinion. And I don't mean to offend anyone.

BTW rmw clothing line is complete junk - makes me want to throw up.

 

I'm completely with you.

 

RMWs took a massive plunge during the 80s/90s when they started using polyester and 'easy care' designs, which they've never managed to shake off. I don't think its so much an attempt to cheap out as a misguided idea that they're somehow easier to look after. Aussie guys love a fused shirt - just ask Country Road or Anthony Squires.

 

These days the company does well in what they always have - leathergoods and moleskins, and to a lesser extent denim and shirting. The rest I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot barge-pole.  

 

I have a couple of books on the company with photographs of stuff they used to produce. With Rob and Remy's help I plan to remake some of their items you don't see anymore. I'm looking to redo some of their traditional graziers but with a single pocket and a tailored fit, so I don't look like I've gone outside in a tent. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post


Somehow i doubt that you have visited the Louvre, your analogy makes no sense, given the contents of the Louvre such as Babylonian artifacts. The flawed analogy reflects on the view you are attempting to assert.

 

Christ you're an asshole. I've spent several days there FWIW. 

 

There can be as many Mesapotamian objects as you like, it doesn't change the fact they all sit in whitewashed rooms under UV light 5000 years out of time. 

post #36695 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxh View Post

halifax.
You asked a while back about a "first" shoe.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
It does depend on what you want it for and what you do during the week and at weekends. Others have chimed in - I have a slightly different take.

If one is doing a taxonomy or a sliding scale of shoes from country/casual/less formal to more formal then, in general, the less decoration on a shoe, then the more formal and the more decoration on shoe the less formal.

Therefore, say, a plain stitched cap toe black shoe is the most formal and a heavy country full brogue the most country or casual.( there are more formal and more causal shoes but lets leave that alone and just use theres to work with)

If we run another line - or curve as our economists mates would say - then closed laced is more formal than open laced.

It seems to me then that if one is to have, at least for some minimal time, only one shoe (and I'm not referring here to the infamous oneshoe threads here) then that shoe should be in the middle of the curve somewhere. Optimal. That is the shoe should be versatile and capable of being worn, without embarrassment and without physical discomfort, at the most formal, at a wedding , funeral or high flying business any day with a suit and a tie, and the most informal, say with jeans or chinos and no jacket at a BBQ..

I put it to you ladies and gentlemen of the jury: That shoe is not a black plain stitched cap toe.

I would suggest, your honour, and jurists, that that shoe should be a quarter brogue or semi brogue with a punch cap.

The colour perhaps should be black to give the most versatility although a very dark brown would be even possibly more versatile depending on your business/suit/formal wearing ratio to casual.

A plain stitched captoe is too formal and too limiting and not suitable (small word play) for jeans. On the other hand a restrained semi brogue will be just fine with a suit. And anything in between.

As far as closed or open laces then again on our "curve" open laces are held to be more country or casual. However most people won't notice or care. And even SF obsessives wont be to fussed if they see you wearing semi brogues with a suit. Hell some of them would wear double monks undone and with no socks with a suit.

There is another good reason to prefer open laces if this is your "first" shoe and you want (or most likely are forced to) to order online.
An open laced shoe is more forgiving and easier to fit. (So is a monk or chukka but we aren't going down that path here).
The open laced shoe will give you more wriggle (another word play) room if you have a high arch and also allow you to adjust length somewhat.
The open laced shoe has more volume around the arch and foot at the ball - you can use that as height (vertical) or width (horizontal) or a bit of both - in addition open laced can also allow you to mildly push the foot back a bit more into the heel. Or allow it to push forward a bit.
This is a better choice until you get your size x brand x last sorted.
In effect an open laced shoe allows you to make more mistakes in sizing and understand what your foot needs..

So given the above I'd suggest that you look at getting yourself a semi brogue open laced shoe online. Probably in black but possibly in a very dark brown.

Then after you have worn them a while and sorted, relatively, size issues, then decide if your next shoe, based on wearing context needs, should be more casual, less casual or more formal or less formal. That is you pick the middle of the curve, for versatility, fit and price and then build your shoes and next purchases around either end as real needs dictate. Avoiding outliers.

+1 to pretty much everything that fxh said.

Open-laced, or "derby", derby shoes are certainly more forgiving over the top of the foot than are closed-laced, or "oxford" shoes, but as long as you don't have a high instep it's not such a worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by md2010 View Post

If I am not mistaken the cost of pair of boots is about $400. RMW claims to be bush out fitter. I wonder how many bush people can actually afford rmw.
In City rmw is mostly worn by guys who either 1. phony/Pretenders and or 2. who don't know any better and think guys in category 1 are real and try to replicate them.
That is my opinion. And I don't mean to offend anyone.

BTW rmw clothing line is complete junk - makes me want to throw up.

I haven't spent much time out in the real country for some years, but in my experience, quite a lot of people that work on farms in Qld with cattle, riding horses and so on still wear RM Williams boots and moleskins. They let them get quite bashed up, too, wearing them while on a horse or a quad bike doing mustering. Suede boots seemed to be a pretty popular choice as they didn't show the scrapes as much.

Unless they've changed the cut, you've got to be pretty thin and beanpole straight to look good in RM Williams moleskins as they have (or had) a bit of a funny cut with a low rise and no room in the backside.
post #36696 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Dreamer View Post

Went to DM today to try on some black cap toes (just coincidentally). It was pretty busy still, and I saw at least 3 guys order Cleverley MTO RTW shoes in the half hour or so I was there. So I guess it has been a success for them.

It briefly crossed my mind to look into it, but I really can't justify the money for just a pair of black cap toes. A pair of midnight blue oxfords might have been interesting, or maybe some loafers, where I have a lot of trouble getting ones that fit. I looked at their brochure and didn't really like the loafers, so that was that. I bought a boring pair of black C&J Connaughts instead.

Were you in the Ring Jacket bomber?

I ordered 2 MTO RTW pairs. Excellent value given they were not taking a surcharge for the Trunkshow.
post #36697 of 55006
For the person who would looking at Double O ring belts, check out the HY sale.
http://www.howardyount.com/collections/2013-clearance?page=1
post #36698 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli2012 View Post

I don't get it personally - denim gives a little anyway. If you don't like how it fits then don't buy that fit.
I like other stuff too (MJ Bale, P. Johnson, Suit Shop, Levis and Filson) but RMWs are the true Australian brand.

I don't like the whole #sprez thing or SFers dressing like British aristocrats despite living in Redfern. It's like a sphinx in the louvre - out of time and out of place.

I grew up in a rural Catholic community, with people wearing blazers and jeans in the summer and a Harris tweed and moleskins in the winter. Looking back, it was authentic, suiting the lifestyle and climate without being forced. Something I'm trying to replicate.

Nothing against the rmw boots Oli but just as they specialise in boots take a look at someone else who specialises in jeans. I actually don't mind Levi's in the right cut and colour..preferably at the US rrp
post #36699 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by quar View Post

Were you in the Ring Jacket bomber?

I ordered 2 MTO RTW pairs. Excellent value given they were not taking a surcharge for the Trunkshow.

I'm so bummed I missed out.. Was in melb on Wednesday (albeit before the trunk show) but became severely ill so I slept on the sofa in Windsor while pat and Tom got to enjoy looking at shoes
post #36700 of 55006
Couldnthaveknown: sounds like you know what you want, but you are looking at a lot of mainstream branded RTW suiting. If you're willing to ball on Brioni and TF, why don't you consider Isaia or liverano RTW. I have had Hugo Boss before and the quality is shit, sorry.

Quar: Ball. So. Hard.

Oli: It's a museum. In any museum context, it is not out of place. RMW in the city is "country in the city" and I can dig that. At 400 bucks, why are you not into meermin and carminas or Alden.

Romp: high intensity menswear. Also inner sanctum inner circle menswear. Hope u feel better soon.
post #36701 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romp View Post

Nothing against the rmw boots Oli but just as they specialise in boots take a look at someone else who specialises in jeans. I actually don't mind Levi's in the right cut and colour..preferably at the US rrp

Yeah they don't have a single decent denim item. I just like that bone seude they do (chinos remind me too much of Alexander Downer) and was looking to get another pair for a deal they're currently doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSurg View Post

Oli: It's a museum. In any museum context, it is not out of place. RMW in the city is "country in the city" and I can dig that. At 400 bucks, why are you not into meermin and carminas or Alden.

A museum is out of place - it's half the reason why Greece wants the Elgin Marbles returned, and why archeologists request that artifacts are left in their place upon discovery (it is difficult to determine the use of a room or an object once it is removed from its context).

Everyone in the legal fraternity (at least mine) wears RMWs, so I have a bit of an affinity with them. Most of all though I don't feel like playing reindeer games with online orders. We've almost reached September and I've still not seen my shirt I ordered from cottonwork in May.
Edited by Oli2012 - 8/24/13 at 5:58pm
post #36702 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxh View Post

halifax.
You asked a while back about a "first" shoe.

It does depend on what you want it for and what you do during the week and at weekends. Others have chimed in - I have a slightly different take.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If one is doing a taxonomy or a sliding scale of shoes from country/casual/less formal to more formal then, in general, the less decoration on a shoe, then the more formal and the more decoration on shoe the less formal.

Therefore, say, a plain stitched cap toe black shoe is the most formal and a heavy country full brogue the most country or casual.( there are more formal and more causal shoes but lets leave that alone and just use theres to work with)

If we run another line - or curve as our economists mates would say - then closed laced is more formal than open laced.

It seems to me then that if one is to have, at least for some minimal time, only one shoe (and I'm not referring here to the infamous oneshoe threads here) then that shoe should be in the middle of the curve somewhere. Optimal. That is the shoe should be versatile and capable of being worn, without embarrassment and without physical discomfort, at the most formal, at a wedding , funeral or high flying business any day with a suit and a tie, and the most informal, say with jeans or chinos and no jacket at a BBQ..

I put it to you ladies and gentlemen of the jury: That shoe is not a black plain stitched cap toe.

I would suggest, your honour, and jurists, that that shoe should be a quarter brogue or semi brogue with a punch cap.

The colour perhaps should be black to give the most versatility although a very dark brown would be even possibly more versatile depending on your business/suit/formal wearing ratio to casual.

A plain stitched captoe is too formal and too limiting and not suitable (small word play) for jeans. On the other hand a restrained semi brogue will be just fine with a suit. And anything in between.

As far as closed or open laces then again on our "curve" open laces are held to be more country or casual. However most people won't notice or care. And even SF obsessives wont be to fussed if they see you wearing semi brogues with a suit. Hell some of them would wear double monks undone and with no socks with a suit.

There is another good reason to prefer open laces if this is your "first" shoe and you want (or most likely are forced to) to order online.
An open laced shoe is more forgiving and easier to fit. (So is a monk or chukka but we aren't going down that path here).
The open laced shoe will give you more wriggle (another word play) room if you have a high arch and also allow you to adjust length somewhat.
The open laced shoe has more volume around the arch and foot at the ball - you can use that as height (vertical) or width (horizontal) or a bit of both - in addition open laced can also allow you to mildly push the foot back a bit more into the heel. Or allow it to push forward a bit.
This is a better choice until you get your size x brand x last sorted.
In effect an open laced shoe allows you to make more mistakes in sizing and understand what your foot needs..

So given the above I'd suggest that you look at getting yourself a semi brogue open laced shoe online. Probably in black but possibly in a very dark brown.

Then after you have worn them a while and sorted, relatively, size issues, then decide if your next shoe, based on wearing context needs, should be more casual, less casual or more formal or less formal. That is you pick the middle of the curve, for versatility, fit and price and then build your shoes and next purchases around either end as real needs dictate. Avoiding outliers.

Really helpful post, I still think a quarter brogue might be still too formal, but a black semi brogue would be the perfect medium.

Nice aussie community we have here in SF
post #36703 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli2012 View Post




Christ you're an asshole. I've spent several days there FWIW. 

There can be as many Mesapotamian objects as you like, it doesn't change the fact they all sit in whitewashed rooms under UV light 5000 years out of time. 

Thanks for the compliment. The fact that you have been there makes your statement even more startling.

Like iSurg said, it is a museum. Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, a museum's purpose is to display artifacts. A sphinx in the louvre is hardly out of place and out of time, quite unlike English three piece suits in Redfern. Whether or not the museum is out of place is really besides the point.

To address your main point, the whole point of classical style, is to endure over cycles of fashion. What exactly is out of time in respect of a well cut suit? I can agree in part that people can dress out of place, but the whole idea of a suit for most people is to blend in, not stand out. Hence the muted colors of navy, gray and black.

CBD suit dressing is quite ubiquitous worldwide. Just check out the business districts of any major cities, from Sydney to London to Paris to Tokyo to Hong Kong to New York. In this context, Redfern stands out like a sore thumb, and it is puzzling why you would use Redfern as a comparison, but i guess lawyers are no strangers to hyperbole.
post #36704 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post


Thanks for the compliment. The fact that you have been there makes your statement even more startling.

Like iSurg said, it is a museum. Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, a museum's purpose is to display artifacts. A sphinx in the louvre is hardly out of place and out of time, quite unlike English three piece suits in Redfern. Whether or not the museum is out of place is really besides the point.

To address your main point, the whole point of classical style, is to endure over cycles of fashion. What exactly is out of time in respect of a well cut suit? I can agree in part that people can dress out of place, but the whole idea of a suit for most people is to blend in, not stand out. Hence the muted colors of navy, gray and black.

CBD suit dressing is quite ubiquitous worldwide. Just check out the business districts of any major cities, from Sydney to London to Paris to Tokyo to Hong Kong to New York. In this context, Redfern stands out like a sore thumb, and it is puzzling why you would use Redfern as a comparison, but i guess lawyers are no strangers to hyperbole.

 

There's a fake sphinx in the louvre, anyway, at the beginning of their ancient Egypt exhibition. 


Louvre - 1, Oli - 0.  

post #36705 of 55006
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSurg View Post

Couldnthaveknown: sounds like you know what you want, but you are looking at a lot of mainstream branded RTW suiting. If you're willing to ball on Brioni and TF, why don't you consider Isaia or liverano RTW. I have had Hugo Boss before and the quality is shit, sorry.
 

 

Indeed mate, but can we get Isaia or Liverano here in Sydney? I'm not sure re buying online without trying on, unless for good discount.

 

For mainstream / the $1k and less area, what would you recommend? 

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