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Did the STYLEman thread just vanish? - Page 12

post #166 of 227
were there T4-phages involved?
post #167 of 227
Quote:
Abstinence has a higher failure rate than condoms or the pill.
I don't think that this has really been proven. I am no expert, however. I have read some convincing critiques of policies in Scandanavia as compared to (say) the US and Japan. But for all I know they were written by people with axes to grind. In any case, I think you meant to say that "abstinence education" has a higher failure rate than condoms or the pill. I can assure you that geniune abstinence has the lowest failure rate of all.
post #168 of 227
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were there T4-phages involved?
post #169 of 227
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For those who object to Manton's ongoing use of the "Berkeley" reference, allow me to recall the following from personal history and sans point-of-view. I entered the American university system in 1968. Yes, I really am that old. When I did, upperclassmen were kind enough to instruct, nay, indoctrinate, our frosh class on the most important aspects of college: 1] Berkely and Columbia were marching in the forefront and setting the goals. They were our 'leaders'. 2] It was our responsibility at S.U.N.Y Stony Brook to become the third institution with "the right stuff". 3] Although studies were important, the overarching concern of all students was "the telephone tree" ... that predecessor to e-mail by which all members of the campus were to be instantly aware should the "pigs" enter the sacred University. And with that, my first semester term project became performing my part to insure that we succeeded at having appropriate mini-riots and that we attack a symbol of the Establishment. In our case, that meant burning down the guardhouse. Yes, there are students at Berkeley who are there to learn. But what is it that the faculty is there to teach? Do they do so from a particular point-of-view? And if that is the case, what do the students learn? As a result, is the student body as a whole swayed from center to left? I believe, to quote some famous old dead guy, that these truths are self-evident. Somehow, I get the feeling that documenting the righteousness of the Establishment has not, in the intervening 37 years, risen to the pinnacle of the overall Berkeley 'to-do' list.
Whoa dude. I left Berkeley in 2 years ago. Dare I say it -- the lifting of affirmative action has contributed (along with the general embourgeoisement and the epidemic apathy of all college campuses) to making Berkeley a lot more full of driven Asian kids rather than angry young rebels. I went undergrad to a formerly reputed protest school, and the apathy there was noticeable as well, with the general population leaning towards gently Democratic. Berkeley the university is nearly as mellow. Of course, there are a few exceptions who prove the rule.
post #170 of 227
Quote:
In any case, I think you meant to say that "abstinence education" has a higher failure rate than condoms or the pill.  I can assure you that geniune abstinence has the lowest failure rate of all.  
Let's say abstinence as a policy.
post #171 of 227
Quote:
For those who object to Manton's ongoing use of the "Berkeley" reference, allow me to recall the following from personal history and sans point-of-view. I entered the American university system in 1968. Yes, I really am that old. When I did, upperclassmen were kind enough to instruct, nay, indoctrinate, our frosh class on the most important aspects of college: 1] Berkely and Columbia were marching in the forefront and setting the goals. They were our 'leaders'. 2] It was our responsibility at S.U.N.Y Stony Brook to become the third institution with "the right stuff". 3] Although studies were important, the overarching concern of all students was "the telephone tree" ... that predecessor to e-mail by which all members of the campus were to be instantly aware should the "pigs" enter the sacred University. And with that, my first semester term project became performing my part to insure that we succeeded at having appropriate mini-riots and that we attack a symbol of the Establishment. In our case, that meant burning down the guardhouse. Yes, there are students at Berkeley who are there to learn. But what is it that the faculty is there to teach? Do they do so from a particular point-of-view? And if that is the case, what do the students learn? As a result, is the student body as a whole swayed from center to left? I believe, to quote some famous old dead guy, that these truths are self-evident. Somehow, I get the feeling that documenting the righteousness of the Establishment has not, in the intervening 37 years, risen to the pinnacle of the overall Berkeley 'to-do' list.
I always got out of school what I put in to it. This was true wherever I have invested my time. You, yourself, could be fucking around with low grade fabrics and plastic buttons to make a buck. But you care about your work, and so you put a lot in to it, and you get what you want out of it. Any one can have an opinion about a school. But that opinion doesn't mean dick compared with the work you do at the school. And if you never did any work at the school, well then, I'll leave it to your imagination to decide what that's worth.
post #172 of 227
johnapril: what you write is in part true, but not entirely fair.  Aside from the usual problems people complain about at Berkeley (undergraduate education is a factory, the endless lines, the byzantine bureaucracy, ovecrowding, etc.), I found there were other problems.  Way too much of what I got in the classroom was hamfisted propaganda without intellectual merit or rigor.  Often conformity was enforced with the threat or reality of poor grades. I agree that one's education largely depends on one's own effort.  I have read a lot of books, so I know a thing or two. But at Berkeley, I was paying for something.  The place is supposed to exist to teach me and people like me something.  If, in the end, the only real benefit was lovely architecture in which to read and teach myself (and I bow to no one in my admiration for Doe, and for John Galen Howard.) then they should have charged a lot less.
post #173 of 227
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Hey. The Molecular Biology department is one of the finest in the world. As is the Computer Science dept.
The Earth Sciences department (no, not some frou frou thing, just an umbrella including things from atmospheric science to geology) is no slouch wither.
post #174 of 227
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Quote:
Hey. The Molecular Biology department is one of the finest in the world.  As is the Computer Science dept.
The Earth Sciences department (no, not some frou frou thing, just an umbrella including things from atmospheric science to geology) is no slouch wither.
THat department was way over my head.
post #175 of 227
Edit to insert quote: (You guys are typing too fast.)
Quote:
Whoa dude. I left Berkeley in 2 years ago. Dare I say it -- the lifting of affirmative action has contributed (along with the general embourgeoisement and the epidemic apathy of all college campuses) to making Berkeley a lot more full of driven Asian kids rather than angry young rebels. I went undergrad to a formerly reputed protest school, and the apathy there was noticeable as well, with the general population leaning towards gently Democratic. Berkeley the university is nearly as mellow. Of course, there are a few exceptions who prove the rule.
I'm jealous. That makes you 35 years my junior. And nice to hear the school is a bit more fair and balanced. JohnApril - It is difficult to give a fair and balanced reading to posts filled with expletives. Couldn't we perhaps stay above that?
post #176 of 227
Please please, no expletives. We don't want this thread locked and dissappeared....
post #177 of 227
On this site, expletives are the least of our worries.
post #178 of 227
I have (amazinly enough) reached the point where I may be thinking of universities more as a place to send my children than as a place I can identify with - it concerns me that you send off children to universities, part of the experience of which needs to be gaining charactor and experience in life, and there seems to be an overwhelmingly one sided exposure to one particular political idea, often promoted by people who have lived very insular lives in the academic community.
post #179 of 227
Quote:
johnapril: what you write is in part true, but not entirely fair.  Aside from the usual problems people complain about at Berkeley (undergraduate education is a factory, the endless lines, the byzantine bureaucracy, ovecrowding, etc.), I found there were other problems.  Way too much of what I got in the classroom was hamfisted propaganda without intellectual merit or rigor.  Often conformity was enforced with the threat or reality of poor grades. I agree that one's education largely depends on one's own effort.  I have read a lot of books, so I know a thing or two. But at Berkeley, I was paying for something.  The place is supposed to exist to teach me and people like me something.  If, in the end, the only real benefit was lovely architecture in which to read (and I bow to no one in my admiration for Doe, and for John Galen Howard.) then they should have charged a lot less.
That sucks about your time at Cal. UC Davis was a wonderful environment for learning. When you were going to Cal, however, Davis was probably still an ag extension to Cal. Maybe it also depended on which department you were in?
post #180 of 227
Quote:
On this site, expletives are the least of our worries.
, still...
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