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post #226 of 266
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(drizzt3117 @ Feb. 25 2005,23:14)
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Originally Posted by ernest,Feb. 25 2005,14:07
Why do you need to always repeat that without US France would be German (as if France has been existing for 200 yeards like US) as you can beat Germans only because you are 2 times more than them? Don't forget that without French, US wouldn't have existed in 1939. And that G Bush is French.
This is not a proven fact, and there is much evidence that would suggest the US would have won the war w/o the French naval intervention (although Lafayette played an important and undeniable role)
the key battle of the US revolution was Yorktown and there were more French soldiers and sailors there than American ones.
That may have been true, but only because much of the Continental army was driving the British up the Yorktown peninsula through harassment tactics. I would argue the most important battle of the American Revolution was the battle at Saratoga, which turned the tide of the war. Likely the French wouldn't have gotten involved if it didn't seem like the Americans had a real chance to win, and after this, support from the Continentals swelled. My sources showed that the French had 4000 ground troops and 5000 sailors to the US' 12000 ground troops, fwiw.
post #227 of 266
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Originally Posted by drizzt3117,Feb. 25 2005,23:12
The US mobilized over 10 MILLION troops for WWI, although only about 3 million were sent over to Europe before the war was over. That was about 1/3 of the POPULATION of Germany. They were even stronger for WWII, and while in 1939, Germany was stronger than the US, it didn't take long for the US to mobilize its forces in a way that would have overwhelmed the Germans. It's true that the US didn't need a strong military between the wars, because we have no enemies within range (or so we thought) but if Germany was our neighbor, we would have kept pace in terms of arms, because they would have been a threat. Even if they were on our border and invaded, conquering the US is almost imposslble in even the most optimistic scenario... the US is much larger than even European Russia, and our industrial base is widespread. This whole discussion is just ridiculous, this is like a war fantasy league.
The Russians defeated the Germans in WWII. Germany held nothing back when it attacked Russia on 22 June, 1941. It had nothing to fear from the Brits and the US was not yet in the war.The Germans destroyed 9 Russian armies (about 90 Russian divisions; 1,800,000 men) in 4 battles between June-October, 1941. Then, it began raining and the German tanks bogged down in the mud. Their army nearly got to Moscow, after the mud froze, by late November, 1941, but its had been already nearly freezing to death for 1-2 months. The Russians launched a huge counterattack on 5 December, 1941, TWO DAYS BEFORE Pearl Harbor took place, and the Germans nearly collapsed. It recovered largely by the following summer, but then really lost the war at Stalingrad in the fall-winter of 1942. Germany's final real effort to win was to try to rebuild again for the next summer, 1943, but it all ended for them at Kursk. After that, there was only retreat for the German army and no really large offensive again, as even the Battle of the Bulge was a rather weak effort on its part.
The Germans had several million troops held in reserve in France, preparing for a possible invasion of England, and had several hundred thousand troops (and their best commander) in Africa... these troops may have turned the tide in 1941. The Germans also held back their most powerful weapons, Sarin, Tabun, and VX, which would likely have won the war for them.
post #228 of 266
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Germany held nothing back when it attacked Russia on 22 June, 1941.
False.
post #229 of 266
By the end of the war the United States had provided the following aid: Great Britain...................$31 billion Soviet Union...................$11 billion France...............................$ 3 billion China...............................$1.5 billion Other European..........$ 500 million South America.............$400 million The amount totaled: $48,601,365,000. These are in 1940 terms, in today's values, that is $23,832,686,605,516 or twice the US GDP in 2004...
post #230 of 266
Thread Starter 
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(ernest @ Feb. 25 2005,23:57)
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,Feb. 25 2005,23:38
the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.
You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...
Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
post #231 of 266
Thread Starter 
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You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union... My country is paying a sh*tload to the EU and gets bubkes in return. Quite a lot of the Dutch feel like the laughing stock of Europe because we just keep on paying and paying and getting relatively little out of it.
Then who is a world power? I am listening... Why do you stay then? Are you so stupid?
post #232 of 266
In my opinion that the only two current world powers are the US and China, if you're referring to Sovereign countries. Russia may regain world power status if it can figure out its economic problems, and the EU may emerge as a world power, if they can work together as one, which is debatable.
post #233 of 266
Remeber this motto Ernest: America the Beautiful, God Bless America, America. America. God shed His grace on thee, And crown thy good with brotherhood, From sea to shining sea O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife
post #234 of 266
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Originally Posted by Roy,Feb. 26 2005,00:07
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Originally Posted by ernest,Feb. 25 2005,23:57
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,Feb. 25 2005,23:38
the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.
You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...
Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
Have you ever heard of Royal Dutch/Shell? Or Unilever? Our country is largely responsible for the succes of the Palm Projects in Dubai as our engineers have the know-how, how to regain large areas of land from the sea. For your information, the European Space agency is located in Holland. The U.S.A. contracted a Dutch shipyard to build three ships, Dutch Fashion Designers become increasingly popular (Braez/Viktor & Rolf). Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French. I dare even say that our Agricultural exports amount to more €s than the French... But that is just a drop on a hot plate since Agriculture is not an important revenue source anymore. But I am not afraid to say that the standard of living in Holland is higher than in France.
post #235 of 266
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In my opinion that the only two current world powers are the US and China, if you're referring to Sovereign countries.  Russia may regain world power status if it can figure out its economic problems, and the EU may emerge as a world power, if they can work together as one, which is debatable.
Amen. I fully agree to this.
post #236 of 266
And the Dutch are nice people.
post #237 of 266
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And the Dutch are nice people.
We have to be, we're a small country so we have to suck up to the big boys
post #238 of 266
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(ernest @ Feb. 26 2005,00:15)
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Originally Posted by Roy,Feb. 26 2005,00:07
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Originally Posted by ernest,Feb. 25 2005,23:57
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,Feb. 25 2005,23:38
the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.
You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...
Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
Have you ever heard of Royal Dutch/Shell? Or Unilever? Our country is largely responsible for the succes of the Palm Projects in Dubai as our engineers have the know-how, how to regain large areas of land from the sea. For your information, the European Space agency is located in Holland. The U.S.A. contracted a Dutch shipyard to build three ships, Dutch Fashion Designers become increasingly popular (Braez/Viktor & Rolf). Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French. I dare even say that our Agricultural exports amount to more €s than the French... But that is just a drop on a hot plate since Agriculture is not an important revenue source anymore. But I am not afraid to say that the standard of living in Holland is higher than in France.
I think wine is an agricultural export for France, so they are probably higher in that category. However, they are suffering lately, apparently they had to boil down something like 2.4 billion liters of classified bordeaux to alcohol because of excess production
post #239 of 266
Thread Starter 
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But I am not afraid to say that the standard of living in Holland is higher than in France.
What is the link with my question about being a world power? So China is not a world power ? And luxembourg is one of the most powerfull nation?
post #240 of 266
Thread Starter 
Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French. French agriculture is one of the best in the world and the best in Europe.
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