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***The official Alden thread *** - Page 4111

post #61651 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post


not talking about shell specifically. $485 for alden calf won't be anywhere near the quality of $550 for C&J or $545 for Carmina. and yes... i'd call $100 similar price range. there's nobody that can afford a $685 shoe that can't afford an $825 shoe.

 

Your math is off.  First, the list price -- which is what you always pay - for Alden's catalogue cordovan models is between $625-$645,  Your price of $825 for Carmina cordovan models is consistent with my experience.  The difference between $645 and $825 is $180, which is about 27-28% price difference.  An almost 30% price difference is a significant premium.  Now, you can contend that the premium buys you significantly more quality -- and that appears to be your contention. I cannot imagine there is a manufacturer or retailer in the world that would say a nearly 30% price difference is the same price point.  And perhaps many that can afford $645 for a pair of shoes can pay more than $175 more.  Maybe not.  I suspect your assumption is very optimistic and I suspect many retailers would say that assumption does not comport with their experience.

post #61652 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevent View Post


Carmina direct from Carmina is about $700 shipped for shell (any maybe a bit to DHL for duties) and $750 shipped or so from Skoaktie with no duties. It's $725-$785 for a shell boot these days with sales tax in some cases. So Carmina could be cheaper.

Same holds true for calf / suede models as they are about $460-500 shipped from same sources so same as Alden calf / suede prices


Personally my most recent Carmina shell has dye issues and lasting issues as well, so I'd say same level as Alden as their factory must be crazy busy.

 

These Carmina prices for shell are not consistent with my experience and Epaulet/the dealer in Canada and Carmina factory store are significantly higher.    

 

And my experience does not support the conclusion that Carmina shell shoes are significantly greater quality than Alden shell shoes.  Carmina makes a great product and I would recommend it.  The Alden shell looks richer and shines better, in my experience, particularly over time.  

post #61653 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldenwear View Post
 

 

Your math is off.  First, the list price -- which is what you always pay - for Alden's catalogue cordovan models is between $625-$645,  Your price of $825 for Carmina cordovan models is consistent with my experience.  The difference between $645 and $825 is $180, which is about 27-28% price difference.  An almost 30% price difference is a significant premium.  Now, you can contend that the premium buys you significantly more quality -- and that appears to be your contention. I cannot imagine there is a manufacturer or retailer in the world that would say a nearly 30% price difference is the same price point.  And perhaps many that can afford $645 for a pair of shoes can pay more than $175 more.  Maybe not.  I suspect your assumption is very optimistic and I suspect many retailers would say that assumption does not comport with their experience.

 

Your math is also off.  I got this Carmina shoe for $370 in the recent sale at Paul Stuart which is 42% lower than Alden's shell price.  You might say I am not comparing apple to apple.  But my question is why Alden never go on sale and restricting their retailer to discount the shoe.  It seems J.crew / Alden are buying up all the shell and driving the price up.  Is it legitimate for a single company to control all the shell supply?  Btw the quality of the Carmina shoe is so much better.  

post #61654 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
 

Go back and read his post again before you get huffy puffy.  He asked about a shoe company that makes shell boots/shoes at the same or a similar price point to Alden....AE and Rancourt fit the bill.  Not to mention it's easy to do MTO with AE shell.  There was no mention of the quality. 

 

The post that prompted this discussion - post no. 61673, please read the postings - was precisely and only about other companies having superior quality shoes than Alden at the same prices.  The differential quality assertion was not only mentioned, it was the heart of the contention being made.  

 

And it is VERY difficult to contend honestly that AE and Rancourt, as good a product as these firms make, are plainly higher quality than Alden's offerings, particularly the shell products.  

post #61655 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by macjedi View Post

Just ordered my first Hampton … Snuff Suede Medallion Cap Toe Bal: http://www.theshoemart.com/alden-mens-medallion-tip-bal-calfskin-snuff-suede/pvc-ald-mxsdlc-51670_ald_m_medallion_tip_bal_calfskin.html

Ordered my Plaza size: fingers crossed.

 

That is a fantastic looking model.  I have wanted that for many a moon, but have yet to find it in an "e" width.  With Alden, one learns to be patient, and I am keeping hope alive.

 

Unless you have particularly narrow feet, for most, their size for hampton- and plaza-lasted shoes are the same.  

 

I hope you really enjoy them.

post #61656 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeCorb View Post

Your math is also off.  I got this Carmina shoe for $370 in the recent sale at Paul Stuart which is 42% lower than Alden's shell price.  You might say I am not comparing apple to apple.  But my question is why Alden never go on sale and restricting their retailer to discount the shoe.  It seems J.crew / Alden are buying up all the shell and driving the price up.  Is it legitimate for a single company to control all the shell supply?  Btw the quality of the Carmina shoe is so much better.  

You bought a great shoe at a discount. That said, I do not believe that shoe is shell cordovan. It is "cordovan" colored (i.e. burgundy) calfskin. Not saying the shoe is not great, and you didn't make a good buy, but it doesn't appear to be shell (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Demand is driving the price of shell up. I'm sure everyone would like to sell more cordovan than they currently are...
post #61657 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeCorb View Post
 

 

Your math is also off.  I got this Carmina shoe for $370 in the recent sale at Paul Stuart which is 42% lower than Alden's shell price.  You might say I am not comparing apple to apple.  But my question is why Alden never go on sale and restricting their retailer to discount the shoe.  It seems J.crew / Alden are buying up all the shell and driving the price up.  Is it legitimate for a single company to control all the shell supply?  Btw the quality of the Carmina shoe is so much better.  

"Maybe" you are not comparing apples to apples?  Of course you aren't.  And Aldens do go on sale, typically when a retailer is trying to accelerate the clearing out of discontinued models or ones they are not carrying any longer -- perhaps, by the way, Paul Stuart discounted the shoe it sold you?  No difference here.  

 

Your conspiracy theories about J Crew and Alden conspiring to drive up the price of shell is difficult to support with the facts.  Very little shell is used for shoes.  There are much larger forces in play.  And whenever anyone talks about a manufacturer restricting a product that it derives a significant amount of its business, I have to wonder the following:  can it conceivably make any sense whatsoever for that manufacturer to make less -- and thus sell less -- of its product when it could make more, and thus sell more, of that product?  

 

I have no doubt that Alden could adopt more high volume manufacturing than it does.  But is it remotely possible that Alden is deliberately restricting ravello shoes to maybe two dozen each year?  If ravello cordovan were really available, wouldn't Alden make much more money by stocking ravello models in its catalogue and selling 100 dozen pair each year as opposed to two?  

 

In addition, to hoard cordovan, Alden would have to compete with all buyers of cordovan leather, not just those few who make a few shoes with it.  I think it highly unlikely that Alden has the resources or the desire to go toe to toe with users all over the world of much larger quantities of cordovan than Alden uses.  

 

Finally, if Alden is the hub of cordovan hoarding conspiracy, it appears to be doing a bad job:  others on this board have said Allen Edmonds has said it does not lack cordovan for its needs, and no one has said other makers - C&J, rancourt, etc. are having difficulty.  

 

There does not appear to be much evidence to support a J Crew/Alden conspiracy.  The circumstance appears to be more complex, and less alarming, than that.  All the more reason to focus on King Cordovan - color 8 models.

 

Or not, if you have your disposition.  If you like Carmina better, good for you.  Buy Carmina.  And if you can find a Carmina model on sale that you like, you are doubly blessed to find a shoe you like at less than rack rate.  

post #61658 of 98726
Leffot got their black longwings in - a few sizes look to be available... This is a nice, dressy longwing with a flat welt and red lining. I expect this to be my go to black workweek shoe, should get mine on Monday or so

post #61659 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcibiades View Post


You bought a great shoe at a discount. That said, I do not believe that shoe is shell cordovan. It is "cordovan" colored (i.e. burgundy) calfskin. Not saying the shoe is not great, and you didn't make a good buy, but it doesn't appear to be shell (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Demand is driving the price of shell up. I'm sure everyone would like to sell more cordovan than they currently are...

 

I did not realize that LeCorb was the poster of the tassel loafers from Paul Stuart.  No, those are not cordovan leather, but, as you note, calfskin.  A beautiful shoe, but not cordovan.

 

A succinct and accurate description of the circumstances regarding cordovan availability.  

post #61660 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcibiades View Post

Leffot got their black longwings in - a few sizes look to be available... This is a nice, dressy longwing with a flat welt and red lining. I expect this to be my go to black workweek shoe, should get mine on Monday or so

 

Look at that red lining.  Excellent.  Too bad one's feet get in the way of the world seeing that.  The owner's little pleasure.

post #61661 of 98726
Love the detail of the red lining. Really nice touch
post #61662 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post

Your first paragraph is spot on.

That spot will not go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTYGGG View Post

If the #8 LS NST Saddle is a must own shoe for you & you didn't pay full retail, no brainier keep them. If the make-up isn't a must own & the spot will bother you, no brainier sell them. My personal approach to spots on shell #8 is that they add character as the shoe or boot ages, but that's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnc View Post

At that price-point, there is no way I would return these, for a couple of reasons:

I couldn't even notice the spot on any of the pictures except the last one. It just doesn't seem that noticeable though I understand the desire for perfection in our beloved Alden's.

If these were mine I would consider a couple of options. Because I'm comfortable with shoe dye, I would get a $6 bottle of Feiblings cordovan dye and just dab a little on the spot. It won't likely be an exact match but it will be close enough that it won't be noticeable by anyone but you. And over time, with brushing and the occasional polishing, it will blend in just fine.

If the thought of putting dye on a pair of Alden's makes you uncomfortable, I would take them to a cobbler and have him/her do what I suggest. My guess is that the cost would be around $10.

Again, this is not a perfect solution but at $400 for a truly beautiful pair of shoes, I think this is a solution that would work out fine. The applicator that comes with the dye is a very good size to fill in this spot. If it is too big, a q-tip would also do the trick.

If you do decide to return these, and the are a 9 on Barrie, PM me before sending them back. Good luck. These are truly a great score at what you paid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcibiades View Post

Leffot got their black longwings in - a few sizes look to be available... This is a nice, dressy longwing with a flat welt and red lining. I expect this to be my go to black workweek shoe, should get mine on Monday or so


Gentlemen - thanks for the input on the "blotch" issue with my recently purchased color 8 saddle bluchers -- really helped me to not do anything rash like pack them up and ship them back this morning or, alternatively, to start wearing and creasing them so that a return would be impossible. In looking at them more closely, the blotch doesn't appear to be a flaw in the cordovan, but looks more like they applied coloration more to that area (which could also mean there's a blemish that they wanted to conceal). I'll try to get Alden's take on the situation and then proceed from there.

Alcibiades - great pick up. That red interior reminds me of the linings in a couple of my blazers -- they're so nice that they were part of the reason I got the jacket.
post #61663 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Love the detail of the red lining. Really nice touch

 

Agreed.  Enjoy them Alci, and wear in good health

post #61664 of 98726

 

 

 


We still have some of these left.  Barrie last crepe sole. Great boot for fall.

post #61665 of 98726
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post

that's not strange at all. basically every single shoe manufacturer (not fashion brand) in alden's similar pricepoint is of noticeably higher quality and finish.

^^^^  The original post that I was responding to  ^^^^

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
 

Go back and read his post again before you get huffy puffy.  He asked about a shoe company that makes shell boots/shoes at the same or a similar price point to Alden....AE and Rancourt fit the bill.  Not to mention it's easy to do MTO with AE shell.  There was no mention of the quality. 

He didn't ask, I was the one that asked after he made the above comment in bold.  I apologize for projecting his claim upon your answer.  AE does have an MTO program that's relatively easy.

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