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***The official Alden thread *** Share enthusiasm, reviews, sizing, advice, and photos. - Page 4645  

post #69661 of 122416

Anxiously awaiting my xmas gift from the cobbler - got a pair of #8 975's to help me get over the loss of the Cigar loafers that don't fit.  Had my guy put sole guards on as its been nothing but wet, snowy and salty in the Northeast for the past month - hoping he followed instructions and didn't put any conditioners/products on the shell itself.

post #69662 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkpm View Post

Sorry, what's the point then?

Your point seems to be that imperfection is inevitable and as such, the buyer should realize that before making the purchase. Well no one is disputing that. However, it is a gross oversimplification. We all realize that purchasing such an intricate hand-made product will result in minor imperfections. Heck, many of us even embrace those differences. What is being discussed is a matter of degrees and nuance. What distinguishes an imperfect action from a defect? Would you accept a new pair of whiskey shells with a color 8 blotch in the vamp? Extreme yes, but who decides? To make this a discussion between ones unwillingness to accept anything less than perfection misses the point. We all get that.

I'm still new to this dance but I don't think I've purchased a pair of perfect Alden's and before this, never had a problem with them. I don't know where the line divides between imperfection and defect, but I think in my mind, the question is whether the flaw jumps out at most people upon first glance or whether the flaw results in it catching ones eye and causing a quizzical double-take. It's really hard to say.

As it relates to this purchase, I've followed the advice of those who have PM'd me as well as some of those who have posted publicly and reached out to Leffot with my position. My stance is that if they want a happy customer they should either offer me a modest discount (I really like the boots and would be able to accept the flaw for something less than full retail) or to offer me a full cash refund and I will return the boots. I am not interested in store credit. I have yet to hear back and based on my experience with this retailer, I would be surprised if they accepted either offer.
post #69663 of 122416

I think unions and manufacturing workers get a bad wrap. I have spent my entire career working in Ops and manufacturing and typically production workers are the hardest working people I know. I have watched low paid hourly workers performed skilled tasks on a daily basis that I would never be willing to endure, let alone for what they were being paid to do so.

 

I would say it is more likely that the employees of Alden take great pride in their work then the assumption that hey are union and don't give a shit. Honestly way too many high quality pairs of shoes come out of that factory on a daily basis for me to veer believe that is the general mindset. 

 

There are a great many things that we utilize on a daily basis which would never exist without the hard work and spirt of factory workers (even unionized ones). Of course nothing is perfect but overall I for one believe greatly in our skilled laborers.

post #69664 of 122416

#8 Alt Wien.  Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas if you celebrate it!

 

post #69665 of 122416
^^^ Great looking shoes and combo Don L. Almost pretty. I love the colors. ^^^
post #69666 of 122416
DonL - killer!!!! Love that whole look.
post #69667 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by sazon View Post

DonL - killer!!!! Love that whole look.
+1 DonL is my style idol!
post #69668 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

I think unions and manufacturing workers get a bad wrap. I have spent my entire career working in Ops and manufacturing and typically production workers are the hardest working people I know. I have watched low paid hourly workers performed skilled tasks on a daily basis that I would never be willing to endure, let alone for what they were being paid to do so.

I would say it is more likely that the employees of Alden take great pride in their work then the assumption that hey are union and don't give a shit. Honestly way too many high quality pairs of shoes come out of that factory on a daily basis for me to veer believe that is the general mindset. 

There are a great many things that we utilize on a daily basis which would never exist without the hard work and spirt of factory workers (even unionized ones). Of course nothing is perfect but overall I for one believe greatly in our skilled laborers.

Good post. I wonder to what extent the cutters and other workers can decide which shells have come to them died imperfectly (that is, too imperfectly to use) and to what extent they get shell that has already passed whatever QC review exists and is deemed good enough regardless of their views.
post #69669 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by budapest12 View Post

Good post. I wonder to what extent the cutters and other workers can decide which shells have come to them died imperfectly (that is, too imperfectly to use) and to what extent they get shell that has already passed whatever QC review exists and is deemed good enough regardless of their views.
I was under the impression that Alden's last coat of dye or polish for finishing would be applied at "finishing" or after the shoes are sewn up. It seems that most of these issues looks like the arise from dye puddling on the vamps as all cases look pretty similar. I feel like it would be too much of a coincidence if the issues were present before they were cut.
post #69670 of 122416
Does anyone own the J Gilbert snuff suede plaza wingtip bluchers?

http://www.alden-of-carmel.com/Shoes-Snuff_Suede_Wing_Tip_289.htm

Leffot had a boot version that looked awesome in store but didn't stock E widths (they will likely do another run soon)... In particular they looked gray with tailored clothing. These seem like they would he an even better choice for spring / summer
post #69671 of 122416
^ Huh - that would explain a lot but seems like a method that lends itself to problems. I know only the bare basics about manufacturing quality shoes, though.
post #69672 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by budapest12 View Post

I know only the bare basics about manufacturing quality shoes, though.
...as do I buda. Just my thoughts.
post #69673 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnc View Post


Your point seems to be that imperfection is inevitable and as such, the buyer should realize that before making the purchase. Well no one is disputing that. However, it is a gross oversimplification. We all realize that purchasing such an intricate hand-made product will result in minor imperfections. Heck, many of us even embrace those differences. What is being discussed is a matter of degrees and nuance. What distinguishes an imperfect action from a defect? Would you accept a new pair of whiskey shells with a color 8 blotch in the vamp? Extreme yes, but who decides? To make this a discussion between ones unwillingness to accept anything less than perfection misses the point. We all get that.

I'm still new to this dance but I don't think I've purchased a pair of perfect Alden's and before this, never had a problem with them. I don't know where the line divides between imperfection and defect, but I think in my mind, the question is whether the flaw jumps out at most people upon first glance or whether the flaw results in it catching ones eye and causing a quizzical double-take. It's really hard to say.

As it relates to this purchase, I've followed the advice of those who have PM'd me as well as some of those who have posted publicly and reached out to Leffot with my position. My stance is that if they want a happy customer they should either offer me a modest discount (I really like the boots and would be able to accept the flaw for something less than full retail) or to offer me a full cash refund and I will return the boots. I am not interested in store credit. I have yet to hear back and based on my experience with this retailer, I would be surprised if they accepted either offer.

 

Shawnc, your view of flaws and defects is pretty much my own and how I approach deciding whether to keep a pair of boots/shoes or not. I too have blotches (of dye I guess) on my #8 boots but they're pretty much only noticeable in bright sunlight so I just get on with wearing and enjoying them.

 

I have purchased from Leffot and have not had any problems.  I sincerely hope that they are able to do right for you as they do carry some pretty nice makeups and selfishly, I would hesitate to give them my business in the future if they begin to tarnish their reputation with situations like this.

post #69674 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post
 

I think unions and manufacturing workers get a bad wrap. I have spent my entire career working in Ops and manufacturing and typically production workers are the hardest working people I know. I have watched low paid hourly workers performed skilled tasks on a daily basis that I would never be willing to endure, let alone for what they were being paid to do so.

 

I would say it is more likely that the employees of Alden take great pride in their work then the assumption that hey are union and don't give a shit. Honestly way too many high quality pairs of shoes come out of that factory on a daily basis for me to veer believe that is the general mindset. 

 

There are a great many things that we utilize on a daily basis which would never exist without the hard work and spirt of factory workers (even unionized ones). Of course nothing is perfect but overall I for one believe greatly in our skilled laborers.

 

Very well said.  There are always folks that don't give a s**t at all levels of pay. 

post #69675 of 122416

^ I generally agree with much of the earlier comment, except for the well known fact that unions across all industries tend to breed complacency.  Much like academic tenure, these systems do have their merits, but also their share of unintended consequences. 

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