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***The official Alden thread *** Share enthusiasm, reviews, sizing, advice, and photos. - Page 3769  

post #56521 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarthur View Post


ravello tassels
argyles otc
Uncle, I'm very glad to see your beautiful Ravello tassels today.
post #56522 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Snuff / #8 saddles today


I love this shoe...  You are in elite company when you can match MrDV's possessions.  BTW, DV, your ravello LHS are spectacular!!

post #56523 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarthur View Post


ravello tassels
argyles otc


Wonderful uncle!  Wear in great health your ravello tassel mocs.

post #56524 of 122416

Re: cordovan v. calf

 

Just for the record...nobody can vouch that Cordovan does indeed significantly outlast calf and nobody can confirm that it holds up for dozens of years of regular wear?

post #56525 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Re: cordovan v. calf

 

Just for the record...nobody can vouch that Cordovan does indeed significantly outlast calf and nobody can confirm that it holds up for dozens of years of regular wear?

Think it is a case of Your Mileage May Vary - too many variables to make a flat statement. 

post #56526 of 122416
MrDV's ravello LHS are splendid. I used to own a pair, but they proved to be defective. frown.gif
post #56527 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Re: cordovan v. calf

 

Just for the record...nobody can vouch that Cordovan does indeed significantly outlast calf and nobody can confirm that it holds up for dozens of years of regular wear?

Because I do not have the data required to disagree with DonL's point that you cannot make a categorical statement along these lines, I would agree with him.  

 

My own experience, as anecdotal as it obviously is, however is that it is indisputable that the calfskin dress shoes I have owned required more care and maintenance to look good than my cordovan dress shoes, and that the calfskin dress shoes did not last nearly as long as the cordovan dress shoes.  Now, even then, the data is not uncontrovertible in an absolute sense:  the calfskin shoes were not of the same brand as cordovans, so one could debate quality of construction and other variables.  Ultimately, I don't think this issue matters much.      

post #56528 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Re: cordovan v. calf

Just for the record...nobody can vouch that Cordovan does indeed significantly outlast calf and nobody can confirm that it holds up for dozens of years of regular wear?
I think calf could probably last just as long if cared for properly. Maintenance on shell should be easier. Additionally, many here prefer the look of shell over time. Creasing and patina are much more appealing imho.
post #56529 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDV View Post

ravello lhs





I was going to type a few lines on how much i love these LHS but I think the drool just shorted out my keybbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
post #56530 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Re: cordovan v. calf

 

Just for the record...nobody can vouch that Cordovan does indeed significantly outlast calf and nobody can confirm that it holds up for dozens of years of regular wear?

 

A cursory ebay visit is all the evidence needed, IMO. I have a couple of decades-old shell shoes I ebayed that look outstanding. I largely suspect the vintage shell shoes you find on ebay lived an ordinary life of abuse, and not SF obsessive, meticulous care. Calf isn't even close.

post #56531 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCowperwood View Post

This is an interesting piece on the subject:

http://baus.net/alden-cordovan-af53-long-term-review/

 

Interesting read, but speaks more to the quality of Alden than it does shell cordovan IMO...

 

 

The uppers are showing wear.

 

I'm pretty sure most shoes show wear when worn, no?

 

 

The liners have ripped at the heel, probably as a result of the roominess of the last.

 

Manufacturing issue. Does not pertain to outer leather selection.

 

 

The top two speed lace eyelets are pulling away from the upper.

 

Happened to my Alden's, too. It's a common Alden manufacturing issue.

 

 

And, as has happened with another pair of my Aldens, there is a break in the leather at the top of the boot where the liner and outer shell meet. 

 

Yet another manufacturing, non-shell related issue.

post #56532 of 122416
Quote:
Re: cordovan v. calf

 

Shell has additional strength far superior to calf due to the shells cross growth structure it is similar to extra warp and weft weaving on shirts.

 

The fact is two people pulling at calf skin will be able to create a tear, shell is different since the two people will not be able to tear the hide. 

 

Only other skin close to shell is camel hide and it is said to be superior to shell in comfort not strength or shine.

post #56533 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resistant View Post

 

Shell has additional strength far superior to calf due to the shells cross growth structure it is similar to extra warp and weft weaving on shirts.

 

The fact is two people pulling at calf skin will be able to create a tear, shell is different since the two people will not be able to tear the hide. 

 

Only other skin close to shell is camel hide and it is said to be superior to shell in comfort not strength or shine.

This is actually absolutely false. I can't speak about camel hide (because I know nothing about it), but the tensile strength of cordovan is far less than regular old calf skin. I am not trying to be condescending, but respected members DWFII and dibadiba have both stated such, and also have proffered data from leather tanneries that state that cordovan has a far lower tensile strength.

 

To everyone else, thank you for your input, but showing pictures of old eBay shoes that probably have never been worn does not really answer the question either way. I think the best piece of evidence given, so far, was from englade, who presented his pair of 1980s PTBs that had undergone two full resolings and still looked great. 

 

Also, I want to be clear that I personally love cordovan, however, I am just curious as to whether cordovan is indeed superior to calf or is just a clever marketing ploy. While I do not doubt that the quality of cordovan is good, I still have not found and have not been presented with hard evidence that suggests that cordovan is all that everyone says it is. Cordovan is beautiful (I own 3 pairs of alden cordovan and 3 pairs of AE cordovan), but having spoken and listened to cordwainers on this site, the debate just does not seem to clearly fall in cordovan's favor. Steerhide and horsehide both are stronger (tensile strength-wise), and at least the people who actually make shoes seem to think that cordovan is overrated as a material. Now, that being said, I am not saying that cordovan is necessarily better or worse than calf skin, however, I have not been given and cannot find any data that suggests that it is stronger or lasts longer (and is therefore worth the extra $300).

 

In the end, if you want to spend a lot of money on cordovan instead of calfskin, that's fine-it's your choice. I was just curious as to whether the money I have spent on cordovan will actually go the extra mile versus calf.

 

Edit: for the record, horsehide ≠ shell cordovan.


Edited by JermynStreet - 8/6/13 at 4:36pm
post #56534 of 122416

stirpot.gif a little, but kangaroo has greater tensile strength than calf. See this wikipedia entry:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_leather

 

No comparisons to shell.  I have never held kangaroo leather, though.  There is a dude on here from Sydney who may be able to vouch.

post #56535 of 122416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

however, I have not been given and cannot find any data that suggests that it is stronger or lasts longer (and is therefore worth the extra $300).
I doubt you'll get valid data that can state SC shoes lasts longer than calf (or vice versa) because you can't control the variables of general wear. I think if we compare the materials, we should be more specific (and avoid cross-sectional approaches that look at numerous pictures of shoes), then we can at least better define "stronger" and "lasts longer." I think it's been discussed that when it comes to ripping, calf does have an advantage; however, when it comes to puncture and cuts, I think shell has the upper hands. There are a number of other ways to look at it... durability with abrasions, water resistance, etc.

At the end of the day SC is a smaller hide than calf and it will cost more to make shoes out if it. In addition, the current demand is high for this material so suppliers can charge more.

I like both, I wear both, and I buy both.
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