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Can someone please explain khakis? - Page 7

post #91 of 132
Obviously I do not know you other than what you have written here, but let me put it bluntly: "I think you are a judgmental prick who earns too much money and has too little class." Clear enough? As for me - the funny thing is, I live in the heart of the 5th largest city in the country (Phoenix) while you are in Seattle, a town of less than 600,000 people ranked #23 in population. I am not offended by people who actually celebrate diversity. However, in your case, all you have done since coming on this board is insult people who don't earn as much money as you; don't live in the city; and don't dress in clothing that meets your approval. Now - which of us is narrowminded? Personally, I have friends of all ethnicities, religious backgrounds and sexual orientations who live everywhere from Manhattan's upper-east-side to small farm towns in the Midwest and rank anywhere in earnings from the top of the Forbes 400 to minimum wage. In your case, I would recommend that you gain some life experience and acquire some humility before you continue spouting your aspersions and stereotypes about people who are different than you. Bradford Oh and there is a synagogue located directly across the street from my house.
post #92 of 132
Thread Starter 
I must apologize guys, I have respect for all on this board, and all people in general. My rant was a little out of line. The shifty asian thing was improperly put - what I meant was a shifty looking guy at the dry cleaners only charging me 5 bucks to clean a shirt or jacket. It makes me wonder how quality the cleaning is. I mean, how are they handling my clothes? Is it even possible to do a good job for that little money? It makes me endlessly nervous to hand some guy a $1000+ cashmere jacket and think that it's just being treated with super harsh chemicals and whipped out as quick as possible with absolute disregard for overall damage to the garment. I rather meant that as a question to the board. As in, does anyone else feel this way or have had experiences to denote the quality of the local quicky dry-cleaner type places. Is it possible to get good dry cleaning where garments are handled with special care and attention? Drizz - I don't know that I consider Newport Beach really a suburb. The entire city of LA could be considered a big sprawling suburb in ways, the core downtown area is smaller than the downtown area in Seattle - however, skyscrapers are scattered all over, and the whole city itself in every way kind of defies simple description. From Irvine all the way to the Grapevines it just kinda stretches all over, and I've always considered that entire area to be "LA" metro pretty much. Now, once you get over the grapevines, or south of Irvine, I consider that area the suburbs, however inaccurate that might be.
post #93 of 132
linux, I agree with that characterization in saying that living here in Newport Beach, is not particularly different than living in West LA. However, I would say it was quite a bit different than living in west Boston and Cambridge, the Upper East Side of NYC, or the 19th district in Vienna. I've enjoyed living in all of these places immensely, and they're all quite different. Boston is one of my favorite cities, vibrant (although things do close fairly early here) fairly small and accessible, with some reminders of European culture, and a bit slower paced than, say NYC, which is IMO a fun city to live in, but not where I'd see myself settling down. Obviously, many other people disagree. Vienna seems to be a city that is in many ways living in the past, while desperately trying to modernize, and LA is an interesting mix of cultures... I chose Orange County as a place to live for a number of reasons, perfect climate, easy access to shops and cultural events, 5 minutes from the beach yet an hour from ski slopes, Many people consider Irvine and neighboring areas to be cookie-cutter suburban hell, but I personally don't mind this area at all.
post #94 of 132
Thread Starter 
Bradford - I think my payrate is a highly inappropriate subject for personal conversation. My employers negotiate my rate of pay with me, and that is based on my return, as with any investment. As for people on internet forums and how they perceive my income, that is so abstract and strange, it just really has no relevance at all to my life. As I said earlier, it is crass to discuss salary in personal conversation. If I had this "spat" with you in person, I would have apologized and hopefully it would be done. So let's be done now, yes? I believe the gentlemanly manner of ending an argument would be a friendly handshake, so would you accept a virtual handshake? To anyone else who is reading this, and might have been offended by my posts, I do heartily apologize. I realize I was being a little manic and getting far too worked up about something silly. I attempted, unsuccessfully, to make it humorous. My apologies. And it is truly embarassing to think I have just had my first argument on the internet, now I am truly a loser. It will not happen again. I think there is something about the anonymity of the internet that causes one to forgo all proper curteousies and let loose the demons within. Ha ha ha ha ha. I am not that vitriolic a person at all in real life, I am actually quite a warm, friendly person, it's something I take pride in, I think this forum has triggered some strange release of a deep-seated resentment of which I was previously unaware. As I said, I hope my apologies will be accepted and you have my word I will act in a more civil manner in the future.
post #95 of 132
LP - A virtual handshake it is. I will accept the fact that your posts are not reflective of your true personality and I certainly understand that humor and satire are tough to convey via these posts. I agree that with the anonymity of the internet it is easy to forget our manners and I hope that this is not something that will happen again. My apologies if my comments were out of line. Bradford
post #96 of 132
LP- At least, you had the cojones to admit when you're wrong. We have some people here who still won't admit when they're obviously wrong, i.e. that price is a component of quality. If you still want to know more about the popularity of khaki pants, you should look up an article by Malcom Gladwell where he wrote an article about this phenomenon. Dz, Some historians argue that Alexander Hamilton didn't intend to kill or shoot at Aaron Burr, and shot his pistol into the air. However, that curr, Burr, still fired and killed Hamilton.
post #97 of 132
That brings up an interesting point, they were dueling with only single shot pistols right? If they both missed, did they just consider the duel over? or do it again? What if someone busted out a John Woo dive at 10 paces, then aimed and shot at their leisure after the other missed?
post #98 of 132
Thread Starter 
I doubt that Hamilton would have purposely fired into the air. That was strictly prohibited by the Codes of Dueling, and Hamilton was infatuated with both his own personal honor and the art of the duel. Generally, if both parties missed their shot, they would reload and start over, according to the seriousness of the insult which led to the duel. It was amazingly complex, and I'd suggest reading the Code Duello (found here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sf...fdueling.html) for more specific information, although Americans used a much less complex set of rules generally. As an Irishman myself, I am proud to note that Ireland was the only nation in which strict adherence was given to the Code Duello - what gentlemen. Heh heh. If you were to make any move to dodge the fire of your opponent (especially John Woo style, although it is hilarious to imagine it), and then take aim and kill the man, you would be tried for murder, and then hanged at a public gallows. The rules regarding proper conduct in a duel were extremely strict, even in America were they could change slightly from duel to duel, according to the fancy of the judge. To dodge opponent fire, to take a concentrated aim, or to practice your markmanship up to two months before the duel (although the exact period of time is rather arbitrary and varied from case to case) were all considered serious violations of gentlemanly protocol and would result in your being tried and convicted of murder, which invariably meant the death sentence. When you challenged someone to a duel, your opponent had the right to choose the weapon - sword or pistol. If either party was completely lacking in swordsmanship, the judge would allow an overruling of the sword preference and the duel would default to pistols. This made it rather dangerous to regularly practice your marksmanship, since if you had just been target shooting 3 days before, you have just signed your own death certificate whether you win or lose. This made pistols a fairly uncommon choice for dueling, even at the peak of dueling's popularity (around 1760-1780), contrary to common folklore. Also, many pistol duels ended with one party being seriously maimed and dying days later of complications, such as serious infection of the wound. That little nastiness tarnished the reputation of the pistol as it was increasing in popularity in the late 18th Century, and it became viewed as a rather barbaric method of dueling, which rather quickly led to the outright ban on dueling in every country. Once again, I'd highly suggest reading the Code Duello if you are interested in the rules of duelling. You would be surprised how complex and extremely intricate the system actually was. Any deviation, however slight, from that Code (even before its inception in 1777) would have resulted in your public execution.
post #99 of 132
Thread Starter 
I might, with a bit of embarassment, note here that as a young lad in my early teenage years (12-14), I used to partake in reenactments of 18th Century dueling, and also practiced fencing. What a nerd.. Hey, at least I've never been in the SCA or played Magic the Gathering. We all need some eccentric aspect to our character, right?
post #100 of 132
Can we fight the Civil War again please, I think the outcome would be different today...besides, it seems everyone here is hand-shaking and it really is disturbing, especially after the abysmal comments made like the following:
Quote:
And yes, I do see myself as better than these people, these WASP suburbanites (regardless of their skin color or nation of origin) as more alive and less afraid.  And I do operate with that mindset, with a very strong hatred of suburbia and all that it stands for, as do the majority of urban people that I know.  And if there is one thing that every urbanite I know just completely hates, it's when some racist WASP burbanite spouts off with their self-righteous offense whenever someone around them says anything regarding race, culture, politics, or any other subject which requires one to take a stand, or makes note of the fact, in some trivial way, that we are all different and unique.  Because that is anathema to burbanites.  And that is why they are anathema to urban culture, which is all about the beauty of being "unique" and the celebration of that.
linux_pro, damn man, you must be the most zeroed in mofo in the world for such a young lad. The cultural diversity swaying within you will definitely push you beyond the limits of humanity. One day I predict you will save the urban world from suburbanites like myself, you may even win a peace prize or some other established humanitarian award. I almost am scared of myself after reading your psycho analysis of people like me and the uniqueness of the less than diverse society I live in. What I do believe is you should not generalize suburban America as one giant WASP community, rather as a community of people living an American dream, peacefulness, calmness and general friendly interaction, which is hard to accomplish in the fast paced, never stop and smell the roses attitude in most urban big cities. Where crime is on the increase, paranoia from the street is ever prevalent, and although diversity exists, it seems rather most people in the city are more caught up in being themselves rather than a community of well disciplined neighbors, seeking to raise their children with good wholesome values, helpful to the friend in need, and generally being Americans rather than a race or religious cult. Take a drive through suburbia-Atlanta for example, and one will notice the "Mosques", the "Synagogues", the diverse cultures existing as one giant group, interacting daily as a people, not a sub-culture separate from the surroundings. My neighbors are black, Asian, European, southern, northern, Hispanic, and yet, we all live as friends and colleagues, not separate diverse groups looking to be different, but looking to be happy and create an edenistic atmosphere for the family environment. Are we afraid of people like you, on the contrary, we embrace the immaturity of young people like you, knowing that as you age and become a man, you will one day slip into the same suburban attitude that drove us to seek solace from the city. A peaceful existence within one's heart and soul to provide a safe and secure place to raise our children and enjoy friends without the fear of the crime and lonely existence of a fast paced, never ending struggle to be different from the surroundings, where the only reason for having a daily routine is to be different to be noticed. As we, the suburbanites, age and enter an educated life's maturity, we realize being different and needing a self righteous difference becomes less important to who we are, as to what we seek in tranquility.
Quote:
And yes, I do see myself as better than these people, these WASP suburbanites (regardless of their skin color or nation of origin) as more alive and less afraid.  And I do operate with that mindset, with a very strong hatred of suburbia and all that it stands for, as do the majority of urban people that I know.
And, one last detail, I promise you this, of the suburban living people in this particular board, SF, you definitely are not better than or even close to being as good. One will find that hatred is a strong word, and with issues as developed as that, I am sure that we can find someone here with the professionalism that can help you through this tough and labored time in your life to help you grow and reach into your inner-self to realize there are far worse things in life to hold a dissatisfaction for.
post #101 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Are we afraid of people like you, on the contrary, we embrace the immaturity of young people like you, knowing that as you age and become a man, you will one day slip into the same suburban attitude that drove us to seek solace from the city. A peaceful existence within one's heart and soul to provide a safe and secure place to raise our children and enjoy friends without the fear of the crime and lonely existence of a fast paced, never ending struggle to be different from the surroundings, where the only reason for having a daily routine is to be different to be noticed. As we, the suburbanites, age and enter an educated life's maturity, we realize being different and needing a self righteous difference becomes less important to who we are, as to what we seek in tranquility.
You can live in any city without fear of crime or a lonely lifestyle. I sure do. I don't have any problems with crime, and I'm not by any means some big tough guy. And I am definitely not lonely. I honestly do not wish to criticize you if you enjoy your "routine" or your "eden"; to each his own, and no hard feelings. But obviously we have vastly differing ideas of Eden. And ya know what? Great. It's just a matter of personal taste, I guess. I choose my urban lifestyle not to be different, but for a variety of reasons much more complex than simply finding some idyllic utopia in which to raise children (which is impossible for me anyway, since I am sterile due to previous chemotherapy). Allow me to list a few, and you might find that I am not nearly as immature as you assume. I strongly believe in a thing called conservation, and don't like to pollute the air unnecessarily. Hopefully, by eliminating 75% of the driving I would normally do (I still own a car, but put about 3,000 miles a year on it), my actions will have a positive impact on the quality of air that your children will be breathing when they are your age (this is part of developing what I like to call a "sustainable" Eden). I also greatly enjoy walking and taking care of my physical fitness. Living in the city allows me to do a great deal of natural walking every day, which is a very enjoyable and relaxing form of exercise that one can benefit from greatly. On average, I walk about 3-4 miles a day. Also, I am able to obtain very healthy foods from a variety of vendors who sell mostly organic and local produce and meats (thank God for Pike Place), and this also has great health benefits. On top of that, I am able to sleep in approx. 1 hour later than I could were I to commute, because my place of work is about 15 blocks from my home, give or take about 5 blocks, I haven't counted. I can walk there in less than 15 minutes. That means I am reducing stress, another fine health benefit. Because the city offers a very vibrant, entrepreneurial environment, I am able to make many good "contacts" during my interactions, and to establish businesses of my own (I have three active projects now: live music production, a cleaning service, and a small ISP), all of which generate additional revenue on top of my salary. My rent, shared with a girlfriend, is currently $850 a month (I pay $425), with no utilities or property tax. I will spend more on shoes this month than I will on my living expenses (with obvious benefit there also). With such low living costs, I am able to invest agressively (currently 50% of my gross income). My girlfriend is actually a professional artist and would not have much of a job if we were to live in the suburbs, where people are very unwilling to pay for art, and galleries are nonexistant. We both lead very active social lives, and greatly enjoy the cultural advantages of the city - i.e., live theater, music, ballet (her thing), dining out, cafes, and so forth. We have no need for a television, and do not own one, which also adds to the general quality of life. And since our friends all live in the city also, we meet often and greatly enjoy their company. I could go on, there are numerous other reasons, but I think this partial list shows how completely I structure my life according to the city. And I have found that to greatly enhance my enjoyment of life, which is my reason for living, to enjoy it. Oh, and I can not remember being lonely recently, simply due to sheer volume of people I interact with on a daily basis. Anyway... I'm tired and I need to sleep. Good night.
post #102 of 132
Quote:
Can we fight the Civil War again please, I think the outcome would be different today...besides, it seems everyone here is hand-shaking and it really is disturbing, especially after the abysmal comments made like the following:
Quote:
And yes, I do see myself as better than these people, these WASP suburbanites (regardless of their skin color or nation of origin) as more alive and less afraid.  And I do operate with that mindset, with a very strong hatred of suburbia and all that it stands for, as do the majority of urban people that I know.  And if there is one thing that every urbanite I know just completely hates, it's when some racist WASP burbanite spouts off with their self-righteous offense whenever someone around them says anything regarding race, culture, politics, or any other subject which requires one to take a stand, or makes note of the fact, in some trivial way, that we are all different and unique.  Because that is anathema to burbanites.  And that is why they are anathema to urban culture, which is all about the beauty of being "unique" and the celebration of that.
linux_pro, damn man, you must be the most zeroed in mofo in the world for such a young lad. The cultural diversity swaying within you will definitely push you beyond the limits of humanity. One day I predict you will save the urban world from suburbanites like myself, you may even win a peace prize or some other established humanitarian award. I almost am scared of myself after reading your psycho analysis of people like me and the uniqueness of the less than diverse society I live in. What I do believe is you should not generalize suburban America as one giant WASP community, rather as a community of people living an American dream, peacefulness, calmness and general friendly interaction, which is hard to accomplish in the fast paced, never stop and smell the roses attitude in most urban big cities. Where crime is on the increase, paranoia from the street is ever prevalent, and although diversity exists, it seems rather most people in the city are more caught up in being themselves rather than a community of well disciplined neighbors, seeking to raise their children with good wholesome values, helpful to the friend in need, and generally being Americans rather than a race or religious cult. Take a drive through suburbia-Atlanta for example, and one will notice the "Mosques", the "Synagogues", the diverse cultures existing as one giant group, interacting daily as a people, not a sub-culture separate from the surroundings. My neighbors are black, Asian, European, southern, northern, Hispanic, and yet, we all live as friends and colleagues, not separate diverse groups looking to be different, but looking to be happy and create an edenistic atmosphere for the family environment. Are we afraid of people like you, on the contrary, we embrace the immaturity of young people like you, knowing that as you age and become a man, you will one day slip into the same suburban attitude that drove us to seek solace from the city. A peaceful existence within one's heart and soul to provide a safe and secure place to raise our children and enjoy friends without the fear of the crime and lonely existence of a fast paced, never ending struggle to be different from the surroundings, where the only reason for having a daily routine is to be different to be noticed. As we, the suburbanites, age and enter an educated life's maturity, we realize being different and needing a self righteous difference becomes less important to who we are, as to what we seek in tranquility.
Quote:
And yes, I do see myself as better than these people, these WASP suburbanites (regardless of their skin color or nation of origin) as more alive and less afraid.  And I do operate with that mindset, with a very strong hatred of suburbia and all that it stands for, as do the majority of urban people that I know.
And, one last detail, I promise you this, of the suburban living people in this particular board, SF, you definitely are not better than or even close to being as good. One will find that hatred is a strong word, and with issues as developed as that, I am sure that we can find someone here with the professionalism that can help you through this tough and labored time in your life to help you grow and reach into your inner-self to realize there are far worse things in life to hold a dissatisfaction for.
While I don't share all of Linux's views, I can appreciate where he's coming from. I thought he was using WASP as a generic moniker, a sort of neutral term for blandness, and not as the literal term. Anyway, what do I know? Not much. I am sure that people carve out all sorts of things in Suburbia. ANyway, I do see shreds of useful insight in his posts. But for usefulness (and laziness and perhaps even sloppy thinking), there is this notion of Suburbia as a place that is conformist, self-satisfied, tepid. A sort of stereotype of the mini-van, cup-holding, tract-house dwelling, restaurant-chain eating people who's lives are in 4th gear. Many of you, however, have done a good job in dispelling the stereotype. America, at least, is a pretty big place in more ways that just geography. We may have starbucks, and gap, and BR, and whatnot on every corner, but we seemed to have adapted and carved out our own diversities despite this surface homogeneity.
post #103 of 132
Quote:
You can live in any city without fear of crime or a lonely lifestyle. I sure do. I don't have any problems with crime, and I'm not by any means some big tough guy. And I am definitely not lonely.
I'd qualify this statement a little bit, certainly some cities will have far more crime than others, and especially more than US suburbs, especially for those readers living outside the US.
post #104 of 132
Quote:
Quote:
Are we afraid of people like you, on the contrary, we embrace the immaturity of young people like you, knowing that as you age and become a man, you will one day slip into the same suburban attitude that drove us to seek solace from the city. A peaceful existence within one's heart and soul to provide a safe and secure place to raise our children and enjoy friends without the fear of the crime and lonely existence of a fast paced, never ending struggle to be different from the surroundings, where the only reason for having a daily routine is to be different to be noticed. As we, the suburbanites, age and enter an educated life's maturity, we realize being different and needing a self righteous difference becomes less important to who we are, as to what we seek in tranquility.
You can live in any city without fear of crime or a lonely lifestyle.  I sure do.  I don't have any problems with crime, and I'm not by any means some big tough guy.  And I am definitely not lonely. I honestly do not wish to criticize you if you enjoy your "routine" or your "eden"; to each his own, and no hard feelings.  But obviously we have vastly differing ideas of Eden.  And ya know what?  Great.  It's just a matter of personal taste, I guess. I choose my urban lifestyle not to be different, but for a variety of reasons much more complex than simply finding some idyllic utopia in which to raise children (which is impossible for me anyway, since I am sterile due to previous chemotherapy).  Allow me to list a few, and you might find that I am not nearly as immature as you assume. I strongly believe in a thing called conservation, and don't like to pollute the air unnecessarily.  Hopefully, by eliminating 75% of the driving I would normally do (I still own a car, but put about 3,000 miles a year on it), my actions will have a positive impact on the quality of air that your children will be breathing when they are your age (this is part of developing what I like to call a "sustainable" Eden).  I also greatly enjoy walking and taking care of my physical fitness.  Living in the city allows me to do a great deal of natural walking every day, which is a very enjoyable and relaxing form of exercise that one can benefit from greatly.  On average, I walk about 3-4 miles a day.  Also, I am able to obtain very healthy foods from a variety of vendors who sell mostly organic and local produce and meats (thank God for Pike Place), and this also has great health benefits.  On top of that, I am able to sleep in approx. 1 hour later than I could were I to commute, because my place of work is about 15 blocks from my home, give or take about 5 blocks, I haven't counted.  I can walk there in less than 15 minutes. That means I am reducing stress, another fine health benefit.  Because the city offers a very vibrant, entrepreneurial environment, I am able to make many good "contacts" during my interactions, and to establish businesses of my own (I have three active projects now: live music production, a cleaning service, and a small ISP), all of which generate additional revenue on top of my salary.  My rent, shared with a girlfriend, is currently $850 a month (I pay $425), with no utilities or property tax.  I will spend more on shoes this month than I will on my living expenses (with obvious benefit there also).  With such low living costs, I am able to invest agressively (currently 50% of my gross income).  My girlfriend is actually a professional artist and would not have much of a job if we were to live in the suburbs, where people are very unwilling to pay for art, and galleries are nonexistant.  We both lead very active social lives, and greatly enjoy the cultural advantages of the city - i.e., live theater, music, ballet (her thing), dining out, cafes, and so forth. We have no need for a television, and do not own one, which also adds to the general quality of life.  And since our friends all live in the city also, we meet often and greatly enjoy their company.  I could go on, there are numerous other reasons, but I think this partial list shows how completely I structure my life according to the city.  And I have found that to greatly enhance my enjoyment of life, which is my reason for living, to enjoy it.  Oh, and I can not remember being lonely recently, simply due to sheer volume of people I interact with on a daily basis.  Anyway... I'm tired and I need to sleep.  Good night.
LP, there is a very difficult issue to escape in any human discussion, and that is that time moves in one direction. I smiled when I read Chris's last post, because he was articulating what I had thought. it is difficult for an adult to read your postings and not smile, much in the same way that I smile when my 3 year old does something endearing. you are presently in a stage that many of us have lived through, and, very possibly, you will mature into stages that we will all hit, if we live long enough. "You can live in any city without fear of crime or a lonely lifestyle." - possibly. I think these are related, however, as you aquire more people to love, your fears grow greater, you have more to lose. I have lived in a number of exciting cities, I have never really felt fear, certainly not for myself. but I have found a place where I don't have to lock my door, where I have floor to ceiling windows across the ground floor, and where 911 reponse averages in the 90 second range. I have no fear what so ever. I would remind you that in another thread, you also talk about your need to keep a veritable armory in your house, and that you have had to point a loaded shotgun at somebody. "I strongly believe in a thing called conservation" - very noble point. excellent argument. "I also greatly enjoy walking and taking care of my physical fitness.  Living in the city allows me to do a great deal of natural walking every day, which is a very enjoyable and relaxing form of exercise that one can benefit from greatly" again excellent point "because my place of work is about 15 blocks from my home..." another excellent point "My girlfriend is actually a professional artist and would not have much of a job if we were to live in the suburbs, where people are very unwilling to pay for art, and galleries are nonexistant." here we are gettign into the myths and prejidices part again, but I understand your point "We both lead very active social lives, and greatly enjoy the cultural advantages of the city - i.e., live theater, music, ballet (her thing), dining out, cafes, and so forth. We have no need for a television, and do not own one, which also adds to the general quality of life.  And since our friends all live in the city also, we meet often and greatly enjoy their company" good point, but I think that you would be suprised if you ever actually talked to a suberbanite. in the village where I live (and admitedly I wasn't ready to jump full fledge into a suburb yet, either, but that will be next step)  most of the people I know have moved in from cities, mostly NYC, as the distance isn't that great, most of us still go into the city on a relativly regular basis to eat, enjoy shows, art etc. Many of my wife's friends, and my wife herself, were very active in the art world, when they were  little younger and lived in the city. I used to spend at least 8 hours a week in cafes, back when they would allowme to smoke a cigar along with my coffee. What might hugely suprise you, as well, is the diversity of my area - large numbers of jews, south asians, east asian, african americans anda very high percentage of gays. what might suprise you, also, is that I didn't own atv until I was older than you, too. frankly, I think that the main trigger for people to move to the suburbs is a desire to enjoy a slighly more comfortable life style, slightly slower, slightly safer. the trigger often has to do with a growing family, but not in every case. and it is often a sign of growth. in the same way that you grew out of your renasaince fairs, you may grow out of your hatred of the burbs. maybe not. this "hatred" might also be a reaction to fear of becoming what you have tried to fight off. that is also natural. anyway, peace and good luck. by the way, in my suburban lifestyle, I take the bus to work, and walk to shop - I chose my residence to fit that, because the very values that you list were very important to me as a youth. likewise, my office is less than 15 minutes away from where I live, for the same reasons you list. it is possible to find what you want in a variety of situations.
post #105 of 132
Gentlemen, my points brought forth exactly, the changes come from not only lifestyle changes but maturity changes as well, at no time do any of us begrudge a man enjoying the inner city and the life that goes with it, however, as we all must do in life at some point, we must grow and nurture those among us, and to do so is to give a better more peaceful lifestyle to the ones we love...and quite normally that means moving to the BURBS. LP, enjoy your fun city life, and have an enjoyable walk, and one day, when you look out the window and see a tree, read these posts and remember the tranquility you thought you had until you put your feet up, or grabbed your grandchildren to toss the baseball in the backyard, and then remember we told you so. Everyone does come to this one day. Peace out I am over the subject.
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