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post #211 of 234
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(hopkins_student @ Feb. 15 2005,08:36)
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Originally Posted by Horace,Feb. 15 2005,06:35
Though a full consideration of the effect would get us into a discussion of thorny economic issues which I am not equipped to debate, I don't mind paying considerably more for a pizza if the person who is delivering it makes a living wage and is afforded health insurance. What I don't like to see are corporations (be they public or private) too top heavy in salary & compensation at the expense of workers who are paid a miserable wage.
My God, a living wage? Should we pay everyone a living wage? Honestly? Come on, while some pizza delivery people depend on their earnings for survival, many are students doing it to earn extra spending money. Some are using their mom or dad's car, who may also be paying the insurance on it, and they're taking the earnings. Why in God's name would we want to ruin our economy with the horribly inflated prices we would suffer if we had to pay everyone a living wage? If pizza drivers were paid a living wage, I'm almost certain that the resulting price increase would result in my never ordering a pizza again; I would pick it up myself. Many pizza drivers would be left without work after the demand for delivery decreased to next to nothing. So, are they better off being paid as they are, or are they better off collecting unemployment for several months before they go on to collect welfare? If you're advocating a living wage, I have a feeling you're skewed towards the latter.
Yes honestly. Not sure if you're being ironic or not. Well, my original comments concerned a more just distribution of compensation within a corporate structure (and I might add: by force of government if necessary), but I Love the way your thinking is predicated on the idea that many must suffer so that others may prosper. What flawed thinking. Your previous comments on your parents "working hard" to give you funds is quite revealing. It assumes that only those with money have worked hard. As if the more shmo who delivers your pizza or the woman who cleans the houses of suburban parents are not working hard. (Or single mothers for that matter). I don't have time to address your comments on the welfare state now, but you've got a false dichotomy there. Toodle Pip, H. P.S. Even college students deserve a living wage. PPS. I have a feeling that if pizza prices were raised a few dollars, it wouldn't break you and you wouldn't stop ordering pizza. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that if you looked at your expenditures, you'd find all sorts of things you could do with out, so you wouldn't have to go without your pizza.
Horace, How do you propose that we increase pizza drivers' wages if we don't (a) charge more for pizza or (b) cut salaries of others (eg, management)? It seems that you think that management should take a salary cut so that the workers can be paid higher wages. In either of the two scenarios, someone is sacrificing so that others can have more. On the subject of working hard. I never suggested that pizza drivers do not work hard. Many work very hard. But true financial success does not come from working hard in the sense of showing up for a boring job seventy hours a week. It involves innovation, planning, and risk taking. Delivering pizzas or cleaning houses requires none of those three things. Suggesting that the hard work of entrepreneurs is comparable to work in the service industry does not improve the situation of those in the service industry, it only belittles the achievements of entrepreneurs. Why do college students deserve a living wage? I'd be interested in listening to why you believe this to be true, but simply stating your belief doesn't make it so. A living wage is terribly dangerous to the American economy. High wages in the U.S. are already responsible for the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs and service industry jobs where face to face contact is not necessary. Higher minimum wages will only increase the cost of American goods and services, reducing demand and shifting production overseas. How do American workers benefit from losing their jobs, aside from the lower prices they will have to pay for the goods and services they used to produce because now they are being produced far cheaper because of the lack of ridiculous wage laws in other countries? To address your last point, no, paying several dollars more for pizza wouldn't break me, but it would certainly stop me from ordering pizza. It would be foolish to pay much more than I pay now for pizza because (a) the value of pizza is not that great to me and (b) there are much better substitutes that would be available at that price. For several dollars more than the currect price of pizza where I am, I could get a pretty damn good filet mignon, and given the option I'm going with the filet. Hopkins.
post #212 of 234
If pizza prices went up, guess what, Americans would loose weight, then the insurance risks would come down, then we would have a decrease in insurance prices, then our income would go up, then at the end of the month we would all have more spare change in our pockets, then the economy would be spurred on by higher spending, which in turn would make the stock market go up, then our retirement accounts would grow, the the national debt would decrease because taxes being paid would be higher.......think about it, all because Dominos decided to raise the price of a pizza $3 all of this good happened in the world. I vote raise pizza prices....
post #213 of 234
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Originally Posted by Horace,Feb. 19 2005,01:01
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Originally Posted by hopkins_student,Feb. 15 2005,08:36
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Originally Posted by Horace,Feb. 15 2005,06:35
Though a full consideration of the effect would get us into a discussion of thorny economic issues which I am not equipped to debate, I don't mind paying considerably more for a pizza if the person who is delivering it makes a living wage and is afforded health insurance. What I don't like to see are corporations (be they public or private) too top heavy in salary & compensation at the expense of workers who are paid a miserable wage.
My God, a living wage? Should we pay everyone a living wage? Honestly? Come on, while some pizza delivery people depend on their earnings for survival, many are students doing it to earn extra spending money. Some are using their mom or dad's car, who may also be paying the insurance on it, and they're taking the earnings. Why in God's name would we want to ruin our economy with the horribly inflated prices we would suffer if we had to pay everyone a living wage? If pizza drivers were paid a living wage, I'm almost certain that the resulting price increase would result in my never ordering a pizza again; I would pick it up myself. Many pizza drivers would be left without work after the demand for delivery decreased to next to nothing. So, are they better off being paid as they are, or are they better off collecting unemployment for several months before they go on to collect welfare? If you're advocating a living wage, I have a feeling you're skewed towards the latter.
Yes honestly. Not sure if you're being ironic or not. Well, my original comments concerned a more just distribution of compensation within a corporate structure (and I might add: by force of government if necessary), but I Love the way your thinking is predicated on the idea that many must suffer so that others may prosper. What flawed thinking. Your previous comments on your parents "working hard" to give you funds is quite revealing. It assumes that only those with money have worked hard. As if the more shmo who delivers your pizza or the woman who cleans the houses of suburban parents are not working hard. (Or single mothers for that matter). I don't have time to address your comments on the welfare state now, but you've got a false dichotomy there. Toodle Pip, H. P.S. Even college students deserve a living wage. PPS. I have a feeling that if pizza prices were raised a few dollars, it wouldn't break you and you wouldn't stop ordering pizza. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that if you looked at your expenditures, you'd find all sorts of things you could do with out, so you wouldn't have to go without your pizza.
Horace, How do you propose that we increase pizza drivers' wages if we don't (a) charge more for pizza or (b) cut salaries of others (eg, management)? It seems that you think that management should take a salary cut so that the workers can be paid higher wages. In either of the two scenarios, someone is sacrificing so that others can have more. On the subject of working hard. I never suggested that pizza drivers do not work hard. Many work very hard. But true financial success does not come from working hard in the sense of showing up for a boring job seventy hours a week. It involves innovation, planning, and risk taking. Delivering pizzas or cleaning houses requires none of those three things. Suggesting that the hard work of entrepreneurs is comparable to work in the service industry does not improve the situation of those in the service industry, it only belittles the achievements of entrepreneurs. Why do college students deserve a living wage? I'd be interested in listening to why you believe this to be true, but simply stating your belief doesn't make it so. A living wage is terribly dangerous to the American economy. High wages in the U.S. are already responsible for the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs and service industry jobs where face to face contact is not necessary. Higher minimum wages will only increase the cost of American goods and services, reducing demand and shifting production overseas. How do American workers benefit from losing their jobs, aside from the lower prices they will have to pay for the goods and services they used to produce because now they are being produced far cheaper because of the lack of ridiculous wage laws in other countries? To address your last point, no, paying several dollars more for pizza wouldn't break me, but it would certainly stop me from ordering pizza. It would be foolish to pay much more than I pay now for pizza because (a) the value of pizza is not that great to me and (b) there are much better substitutes that would be available at that price. For several dollars more than the currect price of pizza where I am, I could get a pretty damn good filet mignon, and given the option I'm going with the filet. Hopkins.
I have left this post intact so as to give credit where it is due, but emboldened the most nauseating part. Maybe I posted this already, but it deserves reposting: "Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips." --Harvey Keitel as Mr. White in Reservoir Dogs To imply that every pizza driver and server should get in touch with their own inner entrepeneur for their financial success instead of busting their hump in hopes of tips from elitist ego-mongers whose own inner entrepeneur is on a power lunch is from the other side of the table is as laughable as it is insulting. Essentially, you are excusing your stiffing the people who serve you food because they can choose to do something else. Will you keep food off the table for leaving $4 instead of $6 for your $30 tab? Not likely. But when you are spending $34, what is the difference of an extra $2 to you really? I am a server and feel that I do my job pretty well. It is a job that doesn't require any more special training than the few weeks' worth that the restaurant you work at will pay you for. It is a job that you can walk with cash money for a few hours of hard work. It is a job that once you have on your resume, it is likely you can get another wherever there is a restaurant hiring. But the fact that so many posts have dissertated on how most everyone who serves is a lackey whose hard work to ensure your food arrives at your table correctly and on time, that your drinks are cold and full is worth as little as can be got away with speaks most disparagingly of those who have written in kind. If you wish this for your legacy, you have it as it is. It's your entitlement, but, as Dave Barry said, "a person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person." I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your posts make you suspect. I didn't get a college degree to refill your glasses and bring you dessert menus, and nobody else in the situation I am in is any different. I don't expect that my situation will garner your extra change, but I use it to keep the cash flowing. I work as a freelance graphic designer and wait tables to keep the bills paid, to finance a move to LA, and in that hopefully expand my existing clientele enough that I don't have take one table more than I have to. There are plenty of actors, musicians, grad students, and other people on their way to something bigger and better, who are courting their muses and inner entrepeneurs but need the financial bump that serving gives. What say you to these people? Don't feed us this entrepeneur line of BS again, it's not what we ordered. Take it back to the kitchen and bring us decency, on the fly.
post #214 of 234
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I have left this post intact so as to give credit where it is due, but emboldened the most nauseating part. Maybe I posted this already, but it deserves reposting: "Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips." --Harvey Keitel as Mr. White in Reservoir Dogs To imply that every pizza driver and server should get in touch with their own inner entrepeneur for their financial success instead of busting their hump in hopes of tips from elitist ego-mongers whose own inner entrepeneur is on a power lunch is from the other side of the table is as laughable as it is insulting. Essentially, you are excusing your stiffing the people who serve you food because they can choose to do something else. Will you keep food off the table for leaving $4 instead of $6 for your $30 tab? Not likely. But when you are spending $34, what is the difference of an extra $2 to you really? I am a server and feel that I do my job pretty well. It is a job that doesn't require any more special training than the few weeks' worth that the restaurant you work at will pay you for. It is a job that you can walk with cash money for a few hours of hard work. It is a job that once you have on your resume, it is likely you can get another wherever there is a restaurant hiring. But the fact that so many posts have dissertated on how most everyone who serves is a lackey whose hard work to ensure your food arrives at your table correctly and on time, that your drinks are cold and full is worth as little as can be got away with speaks most disparagingly of those who have written in kind. If you wish this for your legacy, you have it as it is. It's your entitlement, but, as Dave Barry said, "a person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person." I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your posts make you suspect. I didn't get a college degree to refill your glasses and bring you dessert menus, and nobody else in the situation I am in is any different. I don't expect that my situation will garner your extra change, but I use it to keep the cash flowing. I work as a freelance graphic designer and wait tables to keep the bills paid, to finance a move to LA, and in that hopefully expand my existing clientele enough that I don't have take one table more than I have to. There are plenty of actors, musicians, grad students, and other people on their way to something bigger and better, who are courting their muses and inner entrepeneurs but need the financial bump that serving gives. What say you to these people? Don't feed us this entrepeneur line of BS again, it's not what we ordered. Take it back to the kitchen and bring us decency, on the fly.
Drew, I've highlighted the truly bullshit segment of your post, and included the original quote of my own that you should have read before you made that statement.
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However, I tip on the post tax total. Where I am from, Kentucky, we have 6% sales tax (where I live, in Maryland, it is only 5%). In Kentucky, tipping on the post tax amount for a $20 bill adds $.15. Not a great deal. So, for a $100 meal, tipping on post tax will increase the total by a whole $.90. Ninety cents doesn't make a big difference in my life, but I assume that to a server, who in an eight hour shift will serve maybe fifteen or twenty tables, the additional $13.50 to $18.00 will make a big difference, especially considering that his marginal utility is considerably greater than mine (or that of the other patrons who I am hoping are putting the additional $.90 in their tip).
Note: this is based on the base-rate tipping of 15%, but I almost always tip at least 20%, unless service is really atrocious.
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I suppose that my point was that you should tip reasonably within your means. If the difference between tipping pre- or post-tax means that much to you, don't do it. But if it isn't going to negatively impact your lifestyle, why not go for it?
You have taken my argument entirely out of context. You obviously haven't read my previous posts because I am the one on this board most in favor of tipping well, and on the post-tax portion of the bill, precisely because I am able and it means more to the person receiving the tip than it does to me. I have always been a friend to service industry workers. I have never made excuses for "stiffing people" because I don't do it, and I resent the implication that I do. My post that you find so "nauseating" was in response to Horace's suggestion that my parents, and other entrepreneurs, who have taken risks and worked hard, are no more worth of financial success than waiters or waitresses, and that is just bullshit. I've never proposed that members of the service industry should be shoved into the lower class and forced to live miserable lives, but I have argued against paying them a living wage, and in favor of tipping well, so that the rest of society doesn't join them in what would become miserable lives. You, and the service industry, had me as an ally in this battle over tipping. But perhaps I should make an assumption as ill-informed as all of the assumptions you made about me, and assume that you are all reactionary malcontents looking to blame me for all of your problems. Hopkins.
post #215 of 234
what about gas? I frequently gas up in nj, where the gas is cheaper, but you cna't pump your own. what do you tip the guy who pumps your gas?
post #216 of 234
Damn the Americans for starting this tipping tradition, what have we become but a bunch of cup holding beggers in a world where we have the choice of good paying jobs, education, and freedom to decide our futures. If you want to be a server working for a wage so reputably small that you must require tips to servive, then so be it, but do not damn the people who do not tip based on what they decide is service and is not. A gas attendant and a pizza guy do not deliver a service, I am sorry, all they did was the job they desired to take, on the other hand, a waiter who places his sole earning position in serviceing your table, seeing to your needs and cares for your desires has earned a gratuity in exchange if done in a professional and equitable manner. gra·tu·i·ty    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (gr-t-t, -ty-) n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service. tip4    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (tp) n. A small sum of money given to someone for performing a service; a gratuity. What service did you render by delivering anything that you are being paid at least a minimum wage for, doing your job, that I point, you elected to do. If the delivery guy was paid as a waiter, them that would be different. Does one tip the UPS guy for delivering his packages, the cleaners for bringing you the hung clothing and placing it neatly within the confines of your car, the postal guy for delivering your mail.....my answer is no, so why tip the guy delivering a pizza? He did his Job. But to listen to the people who do delivery for a side job, one would believe they made the delivery of your goods more memorable because they did something out of the ordinary and special, maybe if the delivery guy was one that always delivered to me and made sure my pie was piping hot and always early and gave something a little extra everytime it would be different, but how many people have the same delivery person everytime who shows up with a smile and a hello and wonderful greeting offering a discount or exrta drinks or something to say you are a special customer and thanks, very few if any. Hell, you only see this person for a brief 5 seconds to pick up your box, drop the cash/check and shut the door, at least a waiter, at a restaurant, you converse, exchange subtle friendliness and he/she becomes part of your dining experience. Give me a break.
post #217 of 234
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what about gas? I frequently gas up in nj, where the gas is cheaper, but you cna't pump your own. what do you tip the guy who pumps your gas?
Absolutely nothing. When I am in normal states I will only use self-serve, and when I live in NJ during school, I am not offered the choice of not using full service because of their stupid law. I think a key factor in tipping decisions is whether or not you make a choice to take advantage of a service that you could/should be reasonably expected to perform yourself. In the case of waiters/deliverymen, you could just go pick up the food and get it take out. In the case of hotel porters, you could just carry the bags as easily yourself. When the service is thrust upon me without the choice being presented, I don't tip. For example, I'm not going to tip a bathroom attendent for holding up a towel to dry my hands because the only reason I would be using that service is because the restaurant did not provide a source of paper towels or what not for me to grab myself and use.
post #218 of 234
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You have taken my argument entirely out of context. My post that you find so "nauseating" was in response to Horace's suggestion that my parents, and other entrepreneurs, who have taken risks and worked hard, are no more worth of financial success than waiters or waitresses, and that is just bullshit.   I've never proposed that members of the service industry should be shoved into the lower class and forced to live miserable lives, but I have argued against paying them a living wage, and in favor of tipping well, so that the rest of society doesn't join them in what would become miserable lives.
You're a little twit. Or a simpleton. I don't know which. Talk about context and misreading. You've really been brainwashed by the whole American dream haven't you? "Taking risks" and "working hard". Please. Try a certain cleverness and insight into our capitalist system. That's fine. But don't confuse that with some sort of heroic labor. See esp. what you write below, last paragaph. How you are able to offer up such contraditions is amazing. I think it pretty much speaks for itself.
post #219 of 234
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(hopkins_student @ Feb. 20 2005,07:40) You have taken my argument entirely out of context. My post that you find so "nauseating" was in response to Horace's suggestion that my parents, and other entrepreneurs, who have taken risks and worked hard, are no more worth of financial success than waiters or waitresses, and that is just bullshit. I've never proposed that members of the service industry should be shoved into the lower class and forced to live miserable lives, but I have argued against paying them a living wage, and in favor of tipping well, so that the rest of society doesn't join them in what would become miserable lives.
You're a little twit. Or a simpleton. I don't know which. Talk about context and misreading. You've really been brainwashed by the whole American dream haven't you? "Taking risks" and "working hard". Please. Try a certain cleverness and insight into our capitalist system. That's fine. But don't confuse that with some sort of heroic labor. See esp. what you write below, last paragaph. How you are able to offer up such contraditions is amazing. I think it pretty much speaks for itself.
Hey Horace, that's the big boy way to win an argument, name calling. Works every time. How have I been brainwashed by the American dream? It seems that people that go above and beyond the call of duty are rewarded, while those that don't receive the status quo. Come on Horace, grow up, keep it above name calling.
post #220 of 234
What I resent the most about tipping is that I am being asked to do someone else's job. It is the responsibility of the employer to evaluate the performance of those that work for them. But, restaurant managers are too lazy to pay attention to how wait staff perform their duties and force their work upon the diners. A meal cannot truly be enjoyable and relaxing when I am perfoming the manager's work.
post #221 of 234
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What I resent the most about tipping is that I am being asked to do someone else's job. It is the responsibility of the employer to evaluate the performance of those that work for them. But, restaurant managers are too lazy to pay attention to how wait staff perform their duties and force their work upon the diners. A meal cannot truly be enjoyable and relaxing when I am perfoming the manager's work.
I dont get this. You are upset because you cannot delegate such a simple (and useful) task to someone else. Personally, I like to have control over all decisions that involve my money. (One of many reasons I hate oppressive taxation so much, but thats another story. ) Further, whos standards would you rather apply - yours, or some faceless manager, who has to supervise 10 waiters and 100 tables? Finally, if you call evaluating a waiters perfomance "work", I would love to know what you (dont) do for a living. On there threads original note, if the service is acceptable, I tip. If its substandard, its 15 or 10. Only the very poorest gets 0%. One sure way to get 0% from me is to skip me at a crowded bar. You want to serve the blonde first - fine. I just wont subsidize it.
post #222 of 234
I"m a Software Engineer and I'm quite capable of evaluating the performance of restaurant serving staff. I could write a full featured program to do so if I chose. I understand that this is the current system, but the fact of the matter is IT'S NOT MY JOB. As an aside, I'm being asked to do more and more things on behalf of businesses that aren't my job such as ring up my own goods and all sort of other "self service" tasks. I make it a point to take my business elsewhere or to use the full service line even if there are a few people waiting. My desire is that restaurants would operate as in Europe. You pay the price on the menu and the staff is adequately compensated by salary or hourly wages. If a waiter or waitress failed to provide satisfactory service on a regular basis, I'm sure enough diners would complain and he or she would be sacked. As to standards, I am sure that most restaurant managers know what is good service with respect to their establishment and I would be more than willing to defer that responsibility to them. Bear in mind, that if the service is consistently poor, I can just go somewhere else. That alone will keep quality of service at a reasonable level.
post #223 of 234
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My desire is that restaurants would operate as in Europe. You pay the price on the menu and the staff is adequately compensated by salary or hourly wages. If a waiter or waitress failed to provide satisfactory service on a regular basis, I'm sure enough diners would complain and he or she would be sacked.
I agree with this. Furthermore, it's an entirely different culture over here (USA), isn't it. In France or Italy, for instance, a waiter is a respected occupation that pays a wage that can support a family.
post #224 of 234
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My post that you find so "nauseating" was in response to Horace's suggestion that my parents, and other entrepreneurs, who have taken risks and worked hard, are no more worth of financial success than waiters or waitresses, and that is just bullshit.  I've never proposed that members of the service industry should be shoved into the lower class and forced to live miserable lives, but I have argued against paying them a living wage, and in favor of tipping well, so that the rest of society doesn't join them in what would become miserable lives.
You assume that those who have money or "earn it" and "achieve financial success" do it solely on their own merits. Conversely, those who hold your view also (and this is the nasty side of a meritocracy) believe that those who haven't any money, haven't any because they haven't "worked hard". So it's the fault of the poor that they are poor. Your argument would seem to allow (and even to argue that it's right) that the poor are poor and the rich are rich. It's a very pernicious middle-class, pull 'em up by their bootstraps argument. The idea that some stock-jobber on Wall Street (and I used to be one of them) or some guy who owns a chain of dry cleaners or pizza parlors is more deserving of material wealth than a woman on welfare who is raising four children, a janitor cleaning a building, a police officer, or anyone else is not something I agree with. I don't know, why don't you read your last full sentence that I cited. Do I have to parse out the convolluted and contradictory statement (and it's suppositions) for you, or can you figure it out on your own? I don't like talking about money, I get a creepy feeling of bad taste: but I'll be blunt: I grew up with a lot of money. I also made (and make) a fair amount of my own. And yet, I was told as a young man, and I still believe it today: when you see a street person shuffling down the sidewalk, never think you are better than he is. Know that, there but for the grace of God go I. The idea that you think it's okay that some people aren't entitled to a living wage is beyond the pale. It's so wrong I don't know what to say. It's also a fairly common thought in Bush's America though, isn't it? In fact, it's not even Bush, as I'd wager it's a common American sentiment that transcends a specific party and a specific time. But it's heartless and it's disgusting. Your argument on the whole has been predicated on many pernicious fallacies. One of them is that one person's success is achieved at the expense of others. And you are actually right that this is the way it works. But you are wrong to think it necessary or good.
post #225 of 234
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You assume that those who have money or "earn it" and "achieve financial success" do it solely on their own merits. Conversely, those who hold your view also (and this is the nasty side of a meritocracy) believe that those who haven't any money, haven't any because they haven't "worked hard". So it's the fault of the poor that they are poor. Your argument would seem to allow (and even to argue that it's right) that the poor are poor and the rich are rich. It's a very pernicious middle-class, pull 'em up by their bootstraps argument. The idea that some stock-jobber on Wall Street (and I used to be one of them) or some guy who owns a chain of dry cleaners or pizza parlors is more deserving of material wealth than a woman on welfare who is raising four children, a janitor cleaning a building, a police officer, or anyone else is not something I agree with. I don't know, why don't you read your last full sentence that I cited. Do I have to parse out the convolluted and contradictory statement (and it's suppositions) for you, or can you figure it out on your own? I don't like talking about money, I get a creepy feeling of bad taste: but I'll be blunt: I grew up with a lot of money. I also made (and make) a fair amount of my own. And yet, I was told as a young man, and I still believe it today: when you see a street person shuffling down the sidewalk, never think you are better than he is. Know that, there but for the grace of God go I. The idea that you think it's okay that some people aren't entitled to a living wage is beyond the pale. It's so wrong I don't know what to say. It's also a fairly common thought in Bush's America though, isn't it? In fact, it's not even Bush, as I'd wager it's a common American sentiment that transcends a specific party and a specific time. But it's heartless and it's disgusting. Your argument on the whole has been predicated on many pernicious fallacies. One of them is that one person's success is achieved at the expense of others. And you are actually right that this is the way it works. But you are wrong to think it necessary or good.
In response to your first statement that is now in bold font: It is the basis of capitalist society that those who take risks, and I do not see how you can argue that at least the pizza or dry cleaning chain owners do not take risks, deserve more. They are paid a premium for assuming risk. What would you propose would entice someone to assume the risk involved in entrepreneurship if there were not the opportunity for greater reward at the end? In response to your second bold statement: When did I ever suggest that someone without money has less individual worth than someone with? If I ever suggested that I apologize because it is certainly not something I believe. For the first three quarters of my life my family barely scraped by (not barely scraping by with Lexuses instead of Mercedes, but truly barely scraping by), and I would not suggest that my intrinsic value has increased. In fact, I have found that it is often those from more modest circumstances that have the greatest values and character. Intrinsic personal value has no relation whatsoever to financial entitlement. If someone could convince me that a living wage would not result in significantly increased unemployment then I would not be terribly opposed to the idea. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that there is any way around it. Do you think that the benefit to people that increase their wages and maintain their employment is greater than the loss of people who lose their jobs as the result of an economy that cannot employ them? It isn't just my personal opinion that some must lose for others to gain, in the case of (dramatically) increasing minimum wages it is an economic fact.
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