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Are you a bad tipper? - Page 8

post #106 of 234
First of all, if I were to order pizza, I would typically tip 10% or so of the total IF it were on time and in good condition, otherwise, I will not tip. I don't think they should complain about tips for the most part because some people tip FAR in excess of this. Several of my college buddies were pizza delivery guys and most of them did just fine.
post #107 of 234
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noone put a gun to their head and forced them to be a pizza guy...
No, nobody has held a gun to my head and forced me to deliver pizza. Yet. But I'll tell you what, I sure as hell don't work 75 hours a week between my two jobs because *I LIKE* it. Do I not have the right to pay my bills? I have a couple of options OTHER than that I guess: I could start robbing banks for a living until I got caught, and then mooch off the system until they release me to do it again. Or perhaps I could go on welfare, and then all you taxpaying CPA's, Lawyers, and Investment Bankers could pay for me to sit around on the forum all day and discuss fused lapels or take pictures to entertain you. Or maybe I could travel back in time and tell myself not screw up my entire future in high school and then maybe I'd be an elitist snob thumbing my nose at the working class too. I'd need some sort of b.s. deluded excuse about how I'm too cool to tip people who's entire job is to make my life easier and more enjoyable. Maybe its their place in the social pecking order that makes them so distateful. I'm not giving them three bucks, they are probably going to go use it to shoot up with or something. When I get a non-tipper, I bitch about it briefly when I get back to my store, and it's done. I'm not about to spit in your pizza or deliver it late on purpose. I feel like I'm better than that, even if the customer isn't. I can only afford to do this because MOST people realize that I am providing a service to them that they don't have the time or energy to do themselves, or would otherwise inconvenience them. I do my jobs (both of them) to the best of my ability, whether the customer appreciates it or not, and yet I understand that there are those few arrogant people out there who feel the need to belittle the efforts of the servicemen and women of society and draw their own little personal line in the sand when it comes to tipping. Lets just say that if more end-users of the service industry thought like this, there wouldnt be any people to deliver your pizza, or wait your table, or drive your ass around in a taxi, or anything else where tipping drives the employees to continue doing it. It's about the only incentive to even do these shitty ass jobs. Unfortunately there are always going to be those people, and I try not to let it bother me too much. I guess I'll just have to live with it, since I can't legally euthenize non-tipping customers. (as much as I'd like to sometimes) And to any of you out there who may harbor these holier than thou attitudes, I'd just like to say unapologetically, on behalf of the entire service industry - Eff You. (Oh, and if any of you elitist snobs are willing to hire me and pay me what I need to survive, I'd be more than happy to quit my jobs and never recieve tips ever again.)
post #108 of 234
Many people in the service industry don't receive tips. I worked in the service industry for the 2 years prior to my current job (as a consultant) After finishing a consulting project for a client, I didn't expect a tip, regardless of how good a job I did, because i was doing MY JOB. Tips are a gratuity, an optional payment that someone makes because they appreciate good service. However, without arguing whether management consulting services are more or less difficult than pizza delivery, why would one justify a gratuity when the other doesn't? That's the argument people make when not tipping, why give someone extra money for DOING THEIR JOB?
post #109 of 234
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Many people in the service industry don't receive tips. I worked in the service industry for the 2 years prior to my current job (as a consultant) After finishing a consulting project for a client, I didn't expect a tip, regardless of how good a job I did, because i was doing MY JOB. Tips are a gratuity, an optional payment that someone makes because they appreciate good service. However, without arguing whether management consulting services are more or less difficult than pizza delivery, why would one justify a gratuity when the other doesn't? That's the argument people make when not tipping, why give someone extra money for DOING THEIR JOB?
If I made as much money as your average consultant I wouldn't expect tips either. Your argument is flawed. Wage-wise, the customer would be covering the additional cost of me working there regardless. The industry just packages it so that the up-front price of the pizza is lower to attract business and to give you the option to tip more or less. We could, as an industry,start not accepting tips, but charge $5-7 more per delivery to cover a fair wage for the driver, but then your pizza would be more expensive and we would be taking the final quality control measure away from you. Its the system that is in place that best serves everyones needs. Also, the people who ordered one pizza would be paying more to cover the wage of the driver than those ordering many pizzas. Tipping is democracy in action pal, and if you don't want to participate - again... go pick up your pizza at the store.
post #110 of 234
How would you feel if, upon completion of your consulting job, the client only paid you half of your standard wage because he was only half satisfied with your consultation. Or perhaps, you get a small retainer (say 1 days pay for a 10 day job), and the rest of your wage was based on how good your ideas seemed to the customer after you are done consulting. You would still be paid to "do your job" as you so eloquently put it, but you'd be a lot less smug when you ran into me and I paid you nothing after your retainer because I thought your ideas suck. You would have spent your time and energy, for the smallest pittance of a salary, and lost other potential jobs and salary elsewhere while I was wasting your time listening to ideas and consultation that I was unsatisfied with. (but only at the end, when you had already put in your time) You cannot argue that tipping is not a part of my standard wage, when even the IRS assumes a certain percentage. And assuming that everyone must follow YOUR ideals about how industry should work rather than how it DOES work is rather conceited. Isn't it? I suppose its your right as the consumer to take advantage of the system and be an ass, but don't expect any sympathy from me.
post #111 of 234
Actually there are many instances in which clients do not pay (or attempt to not pay) on consulting projects in which the results are not satisifactory. This may or may not work, depending on the contract in question. Also, if the client feels that you (or your company in general) isn't doing a good job, they could terminate the project or ask that you be replaced, and you would receive no compensation. If most pizza drivers weren't satisified with the wages/tips then they would seek different jobs, which would reduce the supply of pizza drivers, given the same demand, the employers WOULD be forced to pay a higher wage if they still wanted to have delivery services. These costs could be passed on to the customers (and likely would).
post #112 of 234
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Actually there are many instances in which clients do not pay (or attempt to not pay) on consulting projects in which the results are not satisifactory. This may or may not work, depending on the contract in question. If most pizza drivers weren't satisified with the wages/tips then they would seek different jobs, which would reduce the supply of pizza drivers, given the same demand, the employers WOULD be forced to pay a higher wage if they still wanted to have delivery services. These costs could be passed on to the customers (and likely would).
What I am saying is that if MORE people stiffed you on most of your consulting salary, and you were left with one day's pay out of ten, AFTER you had completed the ten, tell me you wouldn't be upset. If everyone had to write a contract to pay the pizza delivery driver a certain amount per delivery, and no tips were to be taken, I could deliver your pizza fourty minutes from when you ordered it, and I would still get my money. If you declined to pay it, I would of course have to sue you for breech of contract. Why is that easier than giving the driver three bucks if he gets it there fast and it tastes good? Like I said big shot - if you want to give me a job, I'll take it. I'd like to see how fast the entire profession of pizza delivery would go out of existance if they had to actually pay pizza delivery drivers enough base salary to make it worthwhile doing. I can already tell that you have no idea how much the practice of tipping protects the cost of the goods you take for granted. Again... feel free to take advantage of the people and the system in place- it *is * your right to do so, just as its my right to complain when you do it.
post #113 of 234
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If most pizza drivers weren't satisified with the wages/tips then they would seek different jobs,
Yeah, and if plumbers made minimum wage, you would be up to your eyeballs in your own waste. The point is that I *am* satisfied with my wages and tips. Otherwise I wouldnt be a delivery driver. But when the customer decides not to tip, I decide not to be satisfied.
post #114 of 234
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Originally Posted by aybojs,Feb. 13 2005,03:28
What I meant was that I often hear friends or posters in other tipping threads state that they only get $2-3/hour from their employer, but they neglect to mention that they also get around $10-15/hour in tips.
Isn't this assumed? Obviously they get tips. Whenever someone says they make such-and-such an hour, they're referring to their actual hourly wage. You're thinking way too hard, they're not trying to deceive you in some way.
Well I'm not trying to be accusatory, just asking why servers always bring the minimum wage issue up in tipping threads even though it doesn't seem to have any relevance. If the server recieves sufficient tips, he will take home more than the federal minimum wage (the $5.15 one, not the $2.13); if he does not the employer will pay out the difference and he will take home the federal minimum wage... so if the server can never be in a position where he will take home less than $5.15, of what relevance is the $2.13 figure? I suppose you could argue concern for a sort of bystander effect where if everyone doesn't tip out of an assumption that other patrons will overtip and take care of his share, the waiter's salary would suffer significantly (but not go below federal minimum wage), but since everybody in this thread tips reasonably fairly and the argument is more "15% vs 20%" as opposed to "tip or no tip," there isn't anywhere near the severity that seems to be conveyed by the servers in this thread.
post #115 of 234
Answer this totally off the wall question regarding tipping, and let us see if this does not show a terrible miss-use of tipping in a way. A server delivers a fine meal with more than adequate attention paid in detail toward you and your significant other making the dining experience wonderful and hopefully blissful for tonight at your Valentines romantic outing. You go home happy, sated and full of vigor, you've tipped him/her well, based on the happiness he/she brought to your full stomach and your romantic sidekick, you enjoyed the atmosphere and the attention to detail so much, that you will in fact return to that very establishment again, for the server made you feel comfortable and special. Bill for romance - $150...Tip - $30...everlasting memories of a special night out...PRICELESS. Now, on the other hand, the next day, you may or may not speak of the lovely evening and all that surrounded it, the meal has worn off, the restaurant is a distant thought till next time your belly beckons another nice dinner out, but your feet are hurting. So you saddle up in your car, you go to your favorite place to purchase shoes from your favorite salesman who you trust and dearly love, why you might ask, because he is always nice, courteous, and generally friendly to you. You complain that you have developed a plantar problem, is there any relieve in sight your salesman may have as to a recommendation, he/she responds well with tidying up your painful problems, slips you into some comfortable well supportive shoes and off you go having a better feeling from head to foot now, why because of the superior service rendered you in a very uncomfortable time. A feeling, that unlike the dinner the night before, will stay with you far longer, and the memory of what you favorite shoe person and store provided. Shoes that fit good - $150, saving a trip to the doctor - $20 co-pay, Feet feeling great, along with back, legs and head - PRICELESS TWICE OVER. Now to my point, why did you not tip him/her for the wonderful service you received from the salesperson, but we tip the bartender, the hair cutter, the shine man, the waiter, the pizza guy, all service oriented positions. Maybe this is stupid, but for all I have ever done to help peoples feet feel good, I have never once been given a tip, not when the man came in having corns on his feet, and made him realize he was wearing a shoe to short, sure he thanked me the next time he returned saying "man you saved my feet, thank you", or the man who came in hardly being able to walk because his plantar was killing him in his loafers, we got him some good quality lace shoes from Allen Edmond and his troubles disappeared, did he tip NO, but he returned impressed with the service, the professionalism, and honesty the next week and bought 2 more pairs. Now honestly, do I feel a salesperson need be tipped, no, but I am trying to figure out why waiters and servers feel that when they do not adequately service, they feel still entitled to a generous tip. Is every job that deals with the public not truly a service industry job in some ways? Just a laymans few, it really has no significance other than to make people think a little.
post #116 of 234
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Actually there are many instances in which clients do not pay (or attempt to not pay) on consulting projects in which the results are not satisifactory.  This may or may not work, depending on the contract in question.   Also, if the client feels that you (or your company in general) isn't doing a good job, they could terminate the project or ask that you be replaced, and you would receive no compensation. If most pizza drivers weren't satisified with the wages/tips then they would seek different jobs, which would reduce the supply of pizza drivers, given the same demand, the employers WOULD be forced to pay a higher wage if they still wanted to have delivery services.  These costs could be passed on to the customers (and likely would).
I actuall get solicited by consultants on a regular basis and have a standard offer - I pay them a small up front and a percentage of sales in the territory that they offer to help in, spread out over 3 years. 2 consultants who have worked with me have made more than 100K this way for about 3 weeks work, many have gotten paid basically nothing for similar amount of work, but most walk away. they will tell me over and over how they can help me, but when I ask them to take some of the risk they aren't willing. actaually, having been a consultant myself, I can understand it. most of the people I worked with, as a consultant, did horrible work, if I were them I wouldn't want to be judged on performance, either. (but I wasn't in one o fthe big consulting companies, I was in a small specialty house).
post #117 of 234
Thread Starter 
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I agree with most of what J says, except personally I tip according to the scale I posted earlier, and also when I refer to 15%, I am referring to the pretax, although I do generally include the wine in that total, but not corkage fees of any type.  Why would you tip the server on money that you are paying to the state government?
I agree that tipping on pretax makes more sense, but I have read that one is supposed to tip on the entire bill.  Anyone have the definitive word on this?
post #118 of 234
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Now honestly, do I feel a salesperson need be tipped, no, but I am trying to figure out why waiters and servers feel that when they do not adequately service, they feel still entitled to a generous tip. Is every job that deals with the public not truly a service industry job in some ways?
com·mis·sion n. 4. A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered. And if they DON'T make commission for whatever reason, you can be damn sure they're making more than $2.13 an hour.
post #119 of 234
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I agree that tipping on pretax makes more sense, but I have read that one is supposed to tip on the entire bill. Anyone have the definitive word on this?
I have never heard of anyone tipping on the before-tax amount and this is in no way standard practice. Drizzt you break new ground for cheap-asses everywhere. And your consultant argument was laughably flawed, though tokyoslim already pointed that out.
post #120 of 234
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com·mis·sion n.   4. A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered. And if they DON'T make commission for whatever reason, you can be damn sure they're making more than $2.13 an hour.
Ahhhha, you see you assume to much. assume - break it down - ass-u-me, to make a presumption I do not pay commission, and I agree you should make more than $2.13 an hour, however I do think my point should be taken clearly, tipping is good, but not as a mainstay to income, it should serve as a basis for good service and not be relied upon for wealth. If a server say made $10 an hour, but was the best, he would then appreciate that job more, and be more apt to give better service all the time, rather than on how he/she believes the tipper will give back. Although you raise good points, at the same time, servers have the option as well of finding a place that does pay better.
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...you can be damn sure they're making more than $2.13 an hour.
This is a personal decision, no critisism being placed upon you or any other server, but you can change professions. The point I was making in the off-the-wall comment, was to actually show placement as to good service and the fact that tipping is truly overated...restaurant management should approach from a different standpoint how to pay servers and maybe complaints would be less about the help. And one should only tip on the pre-tax amount, if for example I have a dinner that ranges in the $350 price tag, why should my server make an additional $5-$7 on the staes and counties and or cities income as well. Companies do not pay commission on post-tax sales, only on pre-tax.
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