What did you eat last night for dinner?



iammatt said:

I have to admit, and it may be sacrilege, that I hate brown veal stock. I don't know though, I like fooling around with techniques, but that is for my own joy. Kind of like how some people like building those boat models that they slip into bottles. Philosophically, though, I am more of a minimalist and prefer what you concentrate on than what he does.

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i don't hate brown veal stock at all. in fact, used correctly, i think it's really terrific. (eta: luv u manton) i'm just not sure it should be regarded as a foundation of cooking. perhaps of French restaurant cooking of a certain era (delicious era it was, too). but the idea of a home cook making brown veal stock for anything other than matt's "ship in a bottle" metaphor is kind of silly.

I was offering some helpful ideas to the fellow asking about radishes.



foodguy said:

i don't hate brown veal stock at all. in fact, used correctly, i think it's really terrific. i'm just not sure it should be regarded as a foundation of cooking. perhaps of French restaurant cooking of a certain era (delicious era it was, too). but the idea of a home cook making brown veal stock for anything other than matt's "ship in a bottle" metaphor is kind of silly.

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Right. The problem is not the stock, but how it is used now. When it was done in the traditional way, reduced and thickened, it was good, if a bit monotonous. Just thickened down by reduction, as is the tendency in New American cooking these days, though thankfully no longer in Europe, it has way too gelatinous a mouthfeel and tends to coat the palate. Add reduced red wine to that and you have, in my opinion, big problems. Manton once wrote a post on making real demi-glace, and I thought he was crazy, but he is right, it is a lot better than just reduced bone stock.

That said, I always have some brown veal stock in my freezer.

Goddamnit, I said stop it.

No joke, I have a dedicated stock freezer which (as of now) holds white chicken, brown chicken, white duck, brown duck, lobster, fish, pork, squab and and lamb stock. I currently need to make more brown veal and I sometimes (though not often) make white veal. I also make beef stock but usually only in winter. I will probably make some soon for short ribs and/or onion soup.

I use them all, call me any damned name you want.



iammatt said:

That said, I always have some brown veal stock in my freezer.

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just for sticking the masts on?
i agree: brown veal stock became the go-to sauce base for a while and a lot of over-enthusiastic chefs seemed to believe that if reducing something was good, reducing it even further must be better (eleventy!). this produced sauces with the texture and flavor of motor oil.



Manton said:

call me any damned name you want.

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I would call the freezer "Stockistan" or maybe "stockholm"

If anyone ***** on tourne next, an ass will be kicked.



Manton said:

Goddamnit, I said stop it.
No joke, I have a dedicated stock freezer which (as of now) holds white chicken, brown chicken, white duck, brown duck, lobster, fish, pork, squab and and lamb stock. I currently need to make more brown veal and I sometimes (though not often) make white veal. I also make beef stock but usually only in winter. I will probably make some soon for short ribs and/or onion soup.
I use them all, call me any damned name you want.

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i respect that (though a designated stock freezer might be a bit excessive ... not that excessive is a bad word on styleforum). and i made stocks for about the first 10-15 years i was cooking. i find now that i rarely use them. it's not better or worse, it's just a different style. i don't make a lot of sauce-dependent dishes, my style is much more in the direction of deglaze/jus. and since i cook much more italian influenced stuff (probably 80%), there's really very little call for french-style stocks in that at all. in fact, when i find myself needing stock (risotto, etc), i'll generally use a commercial broth cut in half with water and reinforced with trimmings.

what's the point of a tourne anyways? To make it more realistic when you prop it up with your fingers and flick it finger-football style across the dinner table?

color me confused.

BTW, I love Rulhman and have read most of his books. Buford is a better writer (than almost anyone) but Ruhlman's tastes are closer to my own. Also, unlike Bourdain who can be extremely funny but also seems like a douchebag, Ruhlman comes off very well on TV.



gomestar said:

what's the point of a tourne anyways? To make it more realistic when you prop it up with your fingers and flick it finger-football style across the dinner table?
color me confused.

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The point is, I can do it and you can't.



Manton said:

If anyone ***** on tourne next, an ass will be kicked.

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ITG! ITG! ITG! ITG! ITG! ITG!



Manton said:

Goddamnit, I said stop it.
No joke, I have a dedicated stock freezer which (as of now) holds white chicken, brown chicken, white duck, brown duck, lobster, fish, pork, squab and and lamb stock. I currently need to make more brown veal and I sometimes (though not often) make white veal. I also make beef stock but usually only in winter. I will probably make some soon for short ribs and/or onion soup.
I use them all, call me any damned name you want.

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foodguy said:

i respect that (though a designated stock freezer might be a bit excessive ... not that excessive is a bad word on styleforum). and i made stocks for about the first 10-15 years i was cooking. i find now that i rarely use them. it's not better or worse, it's just a different style. i don't make a lot of sauce-dependent dishes, my style is much more in the direction of deglaze/jus. and since i cook much more italian influenced stuff (probably 80%), there's really very little call for french-style stocks in that at all. in fact, when i find myself needing stock (risotto, etc), i'll generally use a commercial broth cut in half with water and reinforced with trimmings.

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Deglazing jus are my favorite as well. Hopefully with a little bit of fat left in. You can make them separately, which I do, and freeze them in tiny portions. I just get scraps from the butcher. Meat stocks with some fat, what I would call jus, are so much tastier than bone stocks and don't have the gluey consistency when reduced. I do make white chicken, fish and lobster stock, and if I have a bunch of bones left over from something, I make a stock of that as well.



Manton said:

BTW, I love Rulhman and have read most of his books. Buford is a better writer (than almost anyone) but Ruhlman's tastes are closer to my own. Also, unlike Bourdain who can be extremely funny but also seems like a douchebag, Ruhlman comes off very well on TV.

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don't know buford but agree about heat. different thing, really, because mostly ruhlman writes about how to cook. buford is more of a one-off "one man's quest". bourdain is not a douchebag; he just plays one on tv. ruhlman is a very nice, slightly earnest, well-brought up midwestern young man.



Manton said:

If anyone ***** on tourne next, an ass will be kicked.

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Possibly the funniest single sentence ever posted on SF.