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Will Dunhill bankrupt?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
They even do not manage to sell enough in their outlet shop in Paris. It may close soon. When you know that you can often find cheaper cufflinks (from Dunhill) in a departement store during sales, you understand why the outlet shop is useless. They are dying. I hope they will decrease their prices.
post #2 of 15
the New York store seems to do ok. I wonder about Loro Piana. Even their outlets are very very expensive still. I found this small pillow I liked once at the outlet - cashmere and suede and on sale it was still $600 or something. They must be joking. They have an extremely large store in Short Hills, NJ, in the mall. I have never, I mean never seen someone inside the store aside from a salesperson leaning against a table, looking bored. Some designers should just leave their distribution to the department stores and forget about opening their own boutiques. (In my opinion, of course.) Personally, I think LP is one of them.
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
the New York store seems to do ok. I wonder about Loro Piana.  Even their outlets are very very expensive still.  I found this small pillow I liked once at the outlet  - cashmere and suede and on sale it was still $600 or something.  They must be joking.  They have an extremely large store in Short Hills, NJ, in the mall.  I have never, I mean never seen someone inside the store aside from a salesperson leaning against a table, looking bored.   Some designers should just leave their distribution to the department stores and forget about opening their own boutiques.  (In my opinion, of course.)  Personally, I think LP is one of them.
Loro piana as not so much stores. I know just a small one in Paris. Dunhill have closes 2 shops in Paris, one corner in a department store and at least 2 shops in London.
post #4 of 15
Loro Piana's making a killing here in Asia. Everyone here just has to get the name brands.
post #5 of 15
I can understand why they'd have customers for leather goods, luggage, and tobacco pipes and lighters (even though that market is on the skids). As an ex-customer, I found the  clothes over-priced (my last MTM shirts from Dunhill ran over $300 and a Zegna 100s blazer there over $1,200). When Dunhill was next to Sulka on Park Avenue, I'd run into both stores and thought that the Sulka goods were so much better made. Well, all the U.S. Dunhill stores are now closed except New York-maybe the old English name and the Italian clothes didn't create a compelling identity? Edit: If I remember, Alfred Dunhill took over the highly regard Dunhill Tailors firm on 57th St. just east of 5th Avenue (the name was a coincidence), moved out of there to Rockefeller Center, then moved to 57th and Park, and now on to 5th Avenue. Somehow Sulka too in its last days kept moving around and spending money on tenant improvements. I wonder if the Richemont conglomerate really has a plan?
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I can understand why they'd have customers for leather goods, luggage, and tobacco pipes and lighters (even though that market is on the skids). As an ex-customer, I found the  clothes over-priced (my last MTM shirts from Dunhill ran over $300 and a Zegna 100s blazer there over $1,200). When Dunhill was next to Sulka on Park Avenue, I'd run into both stores and thought that the Sulka goods were so much better made. Well, all the U.S. Dunhill stores are now closed except New York-maybe the old English name and the Italian clothes didn't create a compelling identity?
Are leather good really good?
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Are leather good really good?
The Dunhill wallet and credit card case I've owned were apparently licensed and were made in Italy. The leather is durable, there's a nice silk lining, and it doesn't fall apart. Not cheap but not yet in the Asprey or Hermes stratosphere. Dunhill's website says that it's making leather goods in England now which may increase the pricing further, at least here with the weak dollar.
post #8 of 15
Quote:
the New York store seems to do ok. I wonder about Loro Piana.  Even their outlets are very very expensive still.  I found this small pillow I liked once at the outlet  - cashmere and suede and on sale it was still $600 or something.  They must be joking.  They have an extremely large store in Short Hills, NJ, in the mall.  I have never, I mean never seen someone inside the store aside from a salesperson leaning against a table, looking bored.   Some designers should just leave their distribution to the department stores and forget about opening their own boutiques.  (In my opinion, of course.)  Personally, I think LP is one of them.
I see many older people with Loro Piana jackets. I know that because their jackets are thrown over their chairs or over their arms.
post #9 of 15
Dunhill is owned by the Richemont group http://www.richemont.com/ and what happens to the label will ultimately be decided in their boardrooms. I think the brand has been rather confused in recent years (twenty or so) and the decision to neglect the "Englishness" and take it down a bland, internationalist route has not been a clever one. That ultimately killed Sulka (another Richemont company), there was nothing Anglo-American about Sulka anymore in the last years. Both Sulka and Dunhill had that same cheerful and bright, but ultimately bland and prissy merchandise, aimed at a Middle-Eastern clientele. (Motto: "If you've got it, flaunt it".) Dunhill can't have been profitable in the last years and has been pulled hither and thither to improve figures: from expansion to contraction and vice versa. When Richemont closed down the Sulka store on Old Bond Street (about 3 years ago) it was turned into an additional Dunhill store, only to be closed again some two years later.  Heaven knows, how much money they have lost with this store. Ultimately all the global expansion aims of various retailers have been disastrous for the retail trade as every store will the same and be geared stylistically to the lowest common denominator. Equally no individual person takes charge of things. I remember a few years ago at the Dunhill, New Bond Street store a whole rail of new Italian-made overcoats. The whole batch the sleeve lining either cut to short or wrongly attached, resulting in all the sleeves puckering. Nobody had noticed it when the merchandise arrived and when it was put out onto the floor. I pointed it out to the salesman, but two days later when (out of curiosity) I returned to the store, the merchandise was still displayed and all the sleeves were still puckering proudly. These things cannot happen in a stand-alone store with the owner/proprietor in charge.
post #10 of 15
Quote:
I remember a few years ago at the Dunhill, New Bond Street store a whole rail of new Italian-made overcoats. The whole batch the sleeve lining either cut to short or wrongly attached, resulting in all the sleeves puckering. Nobody had noticed it when the merchandise arrived and when it was put out onto the floor. I pointed it out to the salesman, but two days later when (out of curiosity) I returned to the store, the merchandise was still displayed and all the sleeves were still puckering proudly. These things cannot happen in a stand-alone store with the owner/proprietor in charge.
Beng: what did the salesman say when you pointed it out? Was he indifferent or what? Manager probably thought no one would notice, eh? H.
post #11 of 15
I was told by people at Dunhill that the New York store - the only one they kept open when they closed their US retail chain - was a huge money loser. Sinking huge amounts of cash into money losing, prestige real estate can't be a good way to put profits on the bottom line. On the plus side, Dunhill is now sold through department stores and other specialty stores, which makes the brand easier to locate. On the minus side, it loses some of the exclusivity. I own a Dunhill watch which I like because, though it is nothing special horologically, I know a million other people don't own one just like it.
post #12 of 15
The Loro Piana retail stores could very well loose money on average, I imagine they break even. However, they represent a very small percentage of the LP company. They make tons of money in wholesale for fabric; more then enough to subsidize the retail operations. BTW, these are generalizations, I don't have exact figures or official estimates to base this on. This is based on factual knowledge of how fashion companies are run.
post #13 of 15
I'd be a sad day if Dunhill went under. I'm with arenn, I love the brand and its distinctiveness. I was incredibly happy to know recently that the Atlanta Saks began carrying the brand.
post #14 of 15
the loro piana shop on oak street in chicago couldn't have made them any money. clothes were amazing but not more amazing then was available from other makers using LP fabrics. although they had a jacket called "horsey" (italians really need some native english speakers to focus-group proposed names) that i would sell my grandmother to the republicans to be able to afford. they told it was their biggest selling item in the shop. at about $1200 each. meaning they weren't selling a lot of $600 pants. store had to be a huge loss leader.
post #15 of 15
Quote:
I'd be a sad day if Dunhill went under. I'm with arenn, I love the brand and its distinctiveness. I was incredibly happy to know recently that the Atlanta Saks began carrying the brand.
Huge fan of dunhill here as well. One of the things I have in common with my father. I was sad when their woodbury outlet closed. Dunhill really manages a very distinctive look -- sort of like for the young, wealthy, globe-trotting English-educated elite. Very very classy.
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