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post #23596 of 33197
Thanks a lot for the advice and the link it's really helpful, even though SHE loves the idea of me wearing a tux I won't feel comfortable knowing I'm not doing the right thing, one never knows where gentlemen are so I think I go for the morning coat to keep it accurate but with a touch of my own personality adding a bureau bow tie and green plaid trousers as these but with black coat and waistcoat so it doesn't look that shockingly colorful. Advices and opinions would be much appreciated
post #23597 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by buchoelbrusco View Post

Thanks a lot for the advice and the link it's really helpful, even though SHE loves the idea of me wearing a tux I won't feel comfortable knowing I'm not doing the right thing, one never knows where gentlemen are so I think I go for the morning coat to keep it accurate but with a touch of my own personality adding a bureau bow tie and green plaid trousers as these but with black coat and waistcoat so it doesn't look that shockingly colorful. Advices and opinions would be much appreciated

I say go for the green plaid trousers if you fancy it, but wear a long tie not a bow tie, and don't match the waistcoat to the morning coat. Then at least you'll look like you're deliberately breaking the rules and not just ignorant of them. You could go for a more neutral colour in the waistcoat like dove grey or buff to avoid being too colourful.
post #23598 of 33197

I recently bought some Hickey Freeman linen trousers off ebay. They are wonderful except for some portions of stitching under the waistband curtain on either side of the fly.

 

 

 

 

I'm not too concerned about this from a structural standpoint since everything within the waistband itself appears securely fastened. But how typical is this?

post #23599 of 33197

Mimo , lets beg to differ ...

In the UK a morning suit is black or charcoal tailcoat, dove grey or cream or ivory waistcoat, whatever picks out the stripe of the trouser best. Its possible to wear a 3 piece matching morning suit say a light grey if you have a summer wedding and prefer something lighter, but that's certainly not the norm. For the upper classes doing the season Ascot, Henley, Goodwood, Glyndebourne, Buckingham Palace etc then the striped trouser and contrast waistcoat is the normal way to go. I appreciate you guys over there may have moved on a bit but I comment from an English perspective.The same entourage is also the everyday school uniform of the prestigious Eton college.

 

For the bridegroom , he isn't going to a formal " Black Tie" event, this is his own wedding so if he wants to wear a red bow tie and his wife to be is happy then why not ?  That should be the one day in your life that's entirely about you and what a shame to have to bow to convention.  Often the groom & grooms-men ties match the bridemaid's outfits but its not obligatory.  

 

For a dress shirt, plisse , pleats & marcella piquet are equally valid , for a white tie event that's the more formal of the two the waistcoat is obligatory and waistcoat and shirt front collar & cuffs plus the bow tie is also made in the same marcella stiffened with resin.

 

Black tie is less formal and waistcoat isn't obligatory, unless you really are going to dinner with the Queen and as you say the bow tie is black, but could also be something with a bit of personality maybe a jaunty black silk with white polka dot from Turnbull & Asser, why not ?   

The silk of the tuxedo lapels, the bow tie and the trouser ottoman side stripe follow through the shiny look that's often offset by a glossy pair of patent leather shoes, though shined up calf leather is also perfectly good.  This is an after 6pm look obviously, shine is best kept for evening.

post #23600 of 33197
Thanks, o thought about that having the green plaid matched with the bordeu bow tie would look a bit clowney but I already have the second one so I'm thinking as an alternative can I go navy on the waiscoat?
post #23601 of 33197
With classic striped trousers of course
post #23602 of 33197

buchoelbrusco

 

That's a great Autumn or Fall look although Scots purists would say that tartans/plaid should be only worn by those

of Scottish ancestry, so if you can locate a half Scottish great-grandparent then look up and see which is the

correct clan tartan for your ancestral name then google a length of it from the homeland for your trousers.

If you don't have one then don't worry about the purists and do as you please why not its your wedding day ?

That's just plaid trousers though you shouldn't probably go the whole way with kilt and sporran if you aren't of Scottish ancestry. 

Incidentally there are a few plaids and tartans in Cornwall as well. 

This sort of plaid also looks good for the pages or ring bearers if there are small boys involved.

A sprig of heather makes a nice buttonhole too if its an Autumn wedding and its in flower and not a dried up twig.

 

Whatever you choose have a great and stylish day !

post #23603 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhill View Post

Mimo , lets beg to differ ...



In the UK a morning suit is black or charcoal tailcoat, dove grey or cream or ivory waistcoat, whatever picks out the stripe of the trouser best. Its possible to wear a 3 piece matching morning suit say a light grey if you have a summer wedding and prefer something lighter, but that's certainly not the norm. For the upper classes doing the season Ascot, Henley, Goodwood, Glyndebourne, Buckingham Palace etc then the striped trouser and contrast waistcoat is the normal way to go. I appreciate you guys over there may have moved on a bit but I comment from an English perspective.The same entourage is also the everyday school uniform of the prestigious Eton college.



 



For the bridegroom , he isn't going to a formal " Black Tie" event, this is his own wedding so if he wants to wear a red bow tie and his wife to be is happy then why not ?  That should be the one day in your life that's entirely about you and what a shame to have to bow to convention.  Often the groom & grooms-men ties match the bridemaid's outfits but its not obligatory.  



 



For a dress shirt, plisse , pleats & marcella piquet are equally valid , for a white tie event that's the more formal of the two the waistcoat is obligatory and waistcoat and shirt front collar & cuffs plus the bow tie is also made in the same marcella stiffened with resin.



 



Black tie is less formal and waistcoat isn't obligatory, unless you really are going to dinner with the Queen and as you say the bow tie is black, but could also be something with a bit of personality maybe a jaunty black silk with white polka dot from Turnbull & Asser, why not ?   



The silk of the tuxedo lapels, the bow tie and the trouser ottoman side stripe follow through the shiny look that's often offset by a glossy pair of patent leather shoes, though shined up calf leather is also perfectly good.  This is an after 6pm look obviously, shine is best kept for evening.

 



buchoelbrusco, you should probably not take any of the advice this poster is offering.
post #23604 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by buchoelbrusco View Post

Thanks, o thought about that having the green plaid matched with the bordeu bow tie would look a bit clowney but I already have the second one so I'm thinking as an alternative can I go navy on the waiscoat?

Nope, navy's no good I'm afraid. Do a google image search - you'll that the waistcoat is always in a pale contrasting colour. The options are basically buff, dove grey or pale blue. Also note you won't see any bow ties.

(the other option of course is a morning suit in which trousers, waistcoat and tail coat all match, as mimo says).
post #23605 of 33197

BWV988

 

If they were new you would have a right to some indignation, but bought used the trousers cannot be held responsible for any abuse caused

by their previous owner not taking good care pulling them on. Think the hand-stitching is just to keep all the layers lying flat and isn't 

"structural" .  If you point it out next time you take them to the dry-cleaners they can easily slip stitch them down again. Hickey Freeman

is a quality brand and its a good point when garments have some elements of hand-work although they may need kinder treatment than 100% machine.

post #23606 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by buchoelbrusco View Post

Thanks, o thought about that having the green plaid matched with the bordeu bow tie would look a bit clowney but I already have the second one so I'm thinking as an alternative can I go navy on the waiscoat?
 

 

Sorry but you will need to forget the idea of the bow tie if you go for the morning suit option.

But its perfectly acceptable to wear a cravat with a morning suit , instead of a long tie if you favour a touch of flamboyance.

Obviously not with the plaid trouser look, that would be way too much. 

 

As a rule of thumb its usually best to start with the basics, in this case the tailoring,then the shirt, then add the accessories last.

Trying to match the expensive tailoring to a bow tie just because you already happen to have it could be tricky and expensive.  

post #23607 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhill View Post
 

BWV988

 

If they were new you would have a right to some indignation, but bought used the trousers cannot be held responsible for any abuse caused

by their previous owner not taking good care pulling them on. Think the hand-stitching is just to keep all the layers lying flat and isn't 

"structural" .  If you point it out next time you take them to the dry-cleaners they can easily slip stitch them down again. Hickey Freeman

is a quality brand and its a good point when garments have some elements of hand-work although they may need kinder treatment than 100% machine.

 

I'm not the least bit indignant, especially since the pants are otherwise like new.

 
Thanks for the reply.
post #23608 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by E,TF View Post


I say go for the green plaid trousers if you fancy it, but wear a long tie not a bow tie, and don't match the waistcoat to the morning coat. Then at least you'll look like you're deliberately breaking the rules and not just ignorant of them. You could go for a more neutral colour in the waistcoat like dove grey or buff to avoid being too colourful.

 

Everything E,TF says is right.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by westhill View Post
 

Mimo , lets beg to differ ...

In the UK a morning suit is black or charcoal tailcoat, dove grey or cream or ivory waistcoat, whatever picks out the stripe of the trouser best. Its possible to wear a 3 piece matching morning suit say a light grey if you have a summer wedding and prefer something lighter, but that's certainly not the norm. For the upper classes doing the season Ascot, Henley, Goodwood, Glyndebourne, Buckingham Palace etc then the striped trouser and contrast waistcoat is the normal way to go. I appreciate you guys over there may have moved on a bit but I comment from an English perspective.The same entourage is also the everyday school uniform of the prestigious Eton college.

 

For the bridegroom , he isn't going to a formal " Black Tie" event, this is his own wedding so if he wants to wear a red bow tie and his wife to be is happy then why not ?  That should be the one day in your life that's entirely about you and what a shame to have to bow to convention.  Often the groom & grooms-men ties match the bridemaid's outfits but its not obligatory.  

 

For a dress shirt, plisse , pleats & marcella piquet are equally valid , for a white tie event that's the more formal of the two the waistcoat is obligatory and waistcoat and shirt front collar & cuffs plus the bow tie is also made in the same marcella stiffened with resin.

 

Black tie is less formal and waistcoat isn't obligatory, unless you really are going to dinner with the Queen and as you say the bow tie is black, but could also be something with a bit of personality maybe a jaunty black silk with white polka dot from Turnbull & Asser, why not ?   

The silk of the tuxedo lapels, the bow tie and the trouser ottoman side stripe follow through the shiny look that's often offset by a glossy pair of patent leather shoes, though shined up calf leather is also perfectly good.  This is an after 6pm look obviously, shine is best kept for evening.

 

1.  A suit is all made of the same cloth.  That's why it's called a suit.  Hence "morning suit".  A morning coat can be worn with non-matching waistcoat and trousers, and indeed is often worn so in the UK at day time weddings.  Including by me at mine.  And on the one occasion I was summoned to the Palace.  But it's not a suit.  It's a morning coat wtih stripey trousers, how ever often it's referred to colloquially as a "morning suit".  The catch-all term for either would be "morning dress".  Morning suits are indeed less common these days, but a suit is still a suit, and an odd match of trousers, waistcoat and morning coat, isn't.

 

2.  My first advice was for him to do whatever his wife to be says - classically correct or otherwise.  But if he is choosing and looking for advice on what's right, then there's only one "right" in this instance, from a classic menswear perspective.  And he most certainly isn't going to a black tie event as it's in the daytime.  I'm not sure where the "differing" comes in here.  If he were getting married at night, then as a fully formal event, I would suggest it might better be served by white tie.  But then where white tie is worn, e.g England, evening weddings are nigh unheard of, and in any case, he isn't.

 

3.  Again, not sure what I said that wasn't exactly that, although I did skip over any explanation of white tie as it was unmentioned, and of course entirely irrelevant to a daytime event.

 

4.  Black tie requires a black tie and black waistcoat or cummerbund to ensure that the waist of the trousers and the braces are never visible.  Hence the possibility of dong without if wearing a double-breasted dinner jacket..  The empirical definition of "wrong" could be debated, but as we're talking about conventional classic menswear here, "right" and "wrong" are rather more subjective terms defined by decades of tradition.  That tradition says that spotty bow ties, clip on bow ties, bow ties with little flashing lights in them, loud patterned waistcoats or cummerbunds, and removing ones jacket to show off one's novelty braces, are the preserve of fools.  Or even just of the ignorant.  Either way, they represent gross diversions from the definition of black tie.  Black tie is black tie.  Of course one doesn't have to wear black tie, but then one would not be wearing black tie.  The "silk of the lapels" and trousers should ideally be grosgrain, and therefore not shiny, although satin is an established and acceptable substitute.  And "shined-up calf leather" is the preference for evening shoes.  Patent is a lazy but acceptable second best, not the other way around.  And finally, shoes can and should be shined for all times of day!  It is black tie that is worn after dusk for semi-formal events.  Given the movement of the celestial bodies and its varying effect on hours of daylight, 6pm would be a rather arbitrary and misleading threshold to impose.

post #23609 of 33197
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhill View Post

Mimo , lets beg to differ ...
In the UK a morning suit is black or charcoal tailcoat, dove grey or cream or ivory waistcoat, whatever picks out the stripe of the trouser best.

You and Mimo differ in that Mimo is correct. Black or charcoal tailcoat with cashmere strip trousers is referred to as morning coat. Matching tailcoat and trousers is a morning suit.
post #23610 of 33197
I'm discouraged by the morning dress now, I think I'll just get a tailored navy suit that will look just fine with my bordeu bow tie maybe with suspenders to keep Ot simple and classy for a daytime groom. What say you?
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