Should it be long enough or a tad short of reaching the point where my thumb meets the rest of my hand when I wear the shirt with cuffs unbuttoned?
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Styleforum Top Pickspost #21392 of 321734/29/13 at 4:07pmQuote:
If you can swing another $120 bucks, Suit Supply has several high quality and stylishly cut wool suits for $399.
They have stores in Atlanta, Chicago, New York, Philly, and Washington DC.
If you need to stay under $300, I would just go to any of the major warehouse stores and look for a sale. Quality is not great, but unless you wear it often, it may not matter.
Try to make sure the suit fits really well or have it altered to do so. Even a mediocre suit can make you look pretty good if it fits.post #21393 of 321734/29/13 at 4:07pm
Looking at some shoes and I see some excellent colors like GG's Racing Green. But what the heck do you wear these with? It seems like they'd only go well with the staples (navy/grey) and green.
Same for some Carmina loafers from Skoak's website. Gorgeous but not sure what I'd wear the green loafers with.post #21394 of 321734/29/13 at 4:30pmQuote:Originally Posted by 12345Michael54321
Yeah, my answer was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. It's just that there are so many "Can I wear these shoes with..." questions, that after a while it becomes challenging to treat each and every one with the seriousness it deserves.
Okay, as for the AE Bentons, about which Bartleby Trout asks -
If memory serves, the Benton was originally part of Allen Edmonds' "Corporate Casuals" shoe collection. This was back in the late '90s, and was something of a response to many offices no longer expecting employees to wear suits, but instead to simply "dress nicely," in a business casual sense.
So clearly, the Bentons are a solid choice with, say, chinos and an OCBD.
But they're also pretty versatile shoes. While I genuinely don't think they'd typically be the best choice for wearing with jeans, I won't go so far as to argue that they'd necessarily be a terrible choice, either.
And going in the other direction from business casual, I think they'd work pretty well with dress pants and a sport coat. And might even be okay with a suit. Maybe not with a particularly somber or formal suit, but at least with some suits, on some occasions.
I understand how frustrating it can be, but you should keep in mind that people come here because you guys are awesome at this stuff. A style idiot like me comes here for advice and guidance from stylish, well put together gentlemen (probably like yourself). I strive to look my best as much as possible, but sometimes I just don't know what works.
Thanks again for the help!post #21395 of 321734/29/13 at 4:55pmQuote:Originally Posted by cptjeff
If the neck is button number one, wearing it around the third button is indeed really high, that advice is probably not at all misplaced.
I wear mine right about at the solar plexus, and that's where I see most people wearing them. That comes in a bit below the 4th button for me, or about halfway between 4 and 5, depending on the shirt. If you're wearing it much higher than that, it looks like you're just trying to add bling, and the higher you go, the less practical effect you get anyway. Those little clip microphones for TV are the only thing that belongs that high up on a tie.
So you're saying this...
rather than this...
...?post #21396 of 321734/29/13 at 6:56pmpost #21397 of 321734/29/13 at 7:12pmpost #21398 of 321734/29/13 at 8:32pm
Not in terms of the cut of the suit, but yes. Michael Douglas is wearing his tie bar in a much more traditional location.
Though after a quick google search, I see where this is coming from. GQ idiocy. Don't ever listen to them. Seriously, I see a photo of a guy wearing one with a three piece. It seems like GQ is treating it like jewelry you can put near your face rather than a practical item.post #21399 of 321734/29/13 at 9:37pm
There is a general rule that if you're wearing a tie, you ought to be wearing a jacket (suit jacket, sport coat, blazer, etc.) with it. Like all general rules, there are men who knowingly violate it (that's why it's a general rule, and not an absolute law), but it does enjoy a high degree of acceptance, and an extremely high degree of acceptance among those men who care about the rules of classic men's attire.
If one is wearing a jacket, there is a general rule (yes, another one of those) which suggests that it be kept buttoned. Not necessarily while you're seated (unless it's a double breasted jacket), but assuming you're wearing a jacket, and you're standing, and people might see you, it's recommended - again, by most people who take an interest in the rules of classic men's dress - that you button that jacket.
One guideline which has long made sense to me is that if you choose to wear a tie bar, it be worn low enough that it is not readily visible while your jacket is buttoned.
Note that even if you're not wearing a jacket, or if you're wearing an unbuttoned jacket, this guideline can still be applied. Imagine that you're wearing a jacket and/or imagine that you have buttoned your jacket. Now, position your tie bar in such a way that it would be hidden by this hypothetical buttoned jacket.
So, that's one school of thought regarding proper tie bar wearing height.
Alternatively, wear a bow tie.
And yes, I get that some model and/or quasi celebrity, while sporting a 3 day growth of beard, and probably while wearing a ridiculously short and tight suit, might be photographed with his tie bar 1" below his tie's knot. If you want to follow his lead, nobody's going to arrest you for it. But he's already violating so many of the traditional standards of men's attire, that violating one more scarcely matters. It's like deciding to wear shorts, t-shirt, and clown shoes to a state funeral, and then worrying about what color socks are most funeral appropriate.post #21400 of 321734/30/13 at 12:18amYes and if the purpose of a tie bar is to stop your tie swinging about the place, having it high up still leaves most of the tie free to swing about the place, which belies the fact that you're wearing it because you think it looks pretty rather than for practical purposes. Michael Douglas's looks about right to me, and would be covered by his jacket when buttoned.post #21401 of 321734/30/13 at 12:45amIgnorant SW&D poster here. I'm heading to a couple weddings this summer. Since I haven't worn my suits in years, I ended up selling them because they were gathering dust. That said, I have some stray blazers in "off" colors (well, not really off, but like a weird shade of grey, and a grey with a very faint print, but something that I don't have matching pants for).
ANYWAY, what is the rule about mixing colors (pants and jacket) when it comes to suits? Doable or is that a no-no? I've seen it done in a very casual setting - and I know weddings are more formal but I think these weddings are casual enough to let it slide. If acceptable...what colors go best with what (especially a grey suit jacket)?post #21402 of 321734/30/13 at 1:47am
^ Generally, wearing a suit jacket separately (without matching trousers) is frowned upon here. It can look good if the suit jacket is more casual - either made from casual weave (I believe people wear fresco or hopsack as blazer-suits here) or material (tweed, linen), has casual details (patch pockets, buttons in a different color than the suit) etc. Also, a navy suit jacket is going to look better separately than a gray one (gray sportcoats are a minefield, anyway).
The classic pants to wear with a sportcoat (especially tweed) are gray flannels. In summer, something lighter like a tropical wool would work well. A nice option for summer is also cream or white linen trousers, if the wedding is casual enough that you can wear linen.
For other combinations, check this excellent thread by jrd: http://www.styleforum.net/t/317329/jrds-guide-to-coherent-sportcoat-combinations/0_100
The question is though, if you are going to _multiple_ weddings, why not just get a suit? Suits are much easier to do right than sportcoats.post #21403 of 321734/30/13 at 6:29am
GQ my arse.
Firstly, I apologise for mis-counting buttons - I wear mine at about the fourth button then - i.e. the third excluding the collar button. My mistake. But still around a third of the length of the loose front blade. Certainly less than half. The Michael Douglas picture, apart from the obvious horrors, is not too bad in terms of the tie clip, but borderline at least. I'd go a bit higher, his is right on the limit of sense.
There is a practical reason for this. Most tie clips, in order to serve their functional purpose, have a small chain and T-bar or similar, to anchor the whole assembly to the button hole of the shirt. This has a certain amount of flexibility by virtue of its length. The lower the button hole to which it is attached, the longer the chain would have to be to account for your movement, especially if the jacket is buttoned. Really, try it. Sit down, stand up, move around a bit, If the tie clip is attached lower down, it will tug more and probably snap at some point, making the whole apparatus rather redundant.
So the happy compromise between securing enough of the tie, and maintaining normal movement without breaking it, is right there.
As for the fastened jacket/waistcoat etc, I think another point has been missed: one's tie doesn't just tend to move out of place in the wind. Unless you're fiddling with the damn thing eternally, it also tends sometimes to move about a bit under your jacket or waistcoat if you're moving around a lot yourself. So fastening one's jacket or wearing a three piece doesn't obviate the need for a tie clip - it can increase it. As for whether it's visible, that's rather dependent on the cut of the clothing in question. But whatever that may be, it is after all the visible part of the tie that one wishes to keep firmly in place, and if the tie clip is low down under the waistcoat or on the button point of the jacket, again there is a risk that the clothing over it will tug against it and break the securing chain.
Therefore, wear it about a third of the way down, and probably just visible i.e. free of the jacket button or waistcoat sliding and pulling against it.. Or don't wear one at all. I generally don't because I find them a bit flash. I don't really like them. But if the tie is too short for my big neck/preferred knot and I need to secure the short back blade out of sight, and the whole tie to be sure it remains unseen, then I wear one. And that's where I wear it, and why. So there.post #21404 of 321734/30/13 at 8:57ampost #21405 of 321734/30/13 at 9:47amQuote:While belt and shoes should, as a general thing, broadly match - for example, black belt with black shoes, and brown belt with brown shoes - there is no need to seek a perfect match.
If your shoes are light-to-medium brown, for example, and your belt is a mid-range brown, it's close enough. Indeed, some might even suggest that seeking out a perfect color match is excessive, and runs the risk of being perceived as overly "matchy-matchy."
There are parallels involving matching sock color to shoe color, or pocket square color to necktie color. Where close enough may, at times, be preferable to exact.
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