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tell me if this would be overtraining - Page 2

post #16 of 216
9/12/08 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by keynan View Post
^^ no ones going to read all that.. and there is NO such thing as overtraining
Then why can't I lift the same weight forever? What's the point of sets? Why can't I just keep lifting my 1rm over and over again and get stronger with each successive rep?
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post #17 of 216
9/12/08 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
I have never heard of any present Mr Olympia contestant training as you propose, because its stupid.




Some of us aren't bodybuilders. We train because we have specific needs that are addressed with strength training. E.g. athletes. Doing single joint movements becomes a waste of time unless you are rehabbing an injury. It is far more efficient to use the big compound lifts and then spend the time saved on sport specific training.
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post #18 of 216
9/23/08 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
I don't like body part splits.

They're stupid because they always include compound lifts with millions of assistance exercises. I mean, really, a whole day dedicated to shoulders? A day dedicated to chest which includes bench pressing?

Bench press involves the shoulders more than the chest and the triceps even moreso. The entire lift is very dependent upon the strength of the triceps and shoulders, yet it's a 'chest day' lift. What's the point? Why not just ignore 'shoulder day' and 'chest/triceps' and just call it bench press day? The same is true for 'back/biceps day' except in reverse. You again don't need a shoulder day because if you're doing heavy rows you should be working your back, biceps, and shoulders. Why not just do more compound lifts and call the workout days 'bench/row day'?

And for your lower body, you should be squatting, deadlifting, and maybe adding on good mornings. Quit wasting time with the BS exercises and just focus on a few good ones. You'll progress easier and the progression will be easier to evaluate.

There's no reason why deadlift can't be done on 'chest day' or squat on 'back/biceps day' except for the cookie-cutter completeness created by making sure the body part split actually includes all body parts based on the premade template. In other words, the workout is based around the concept of working body parts isolated from each other. Any body parts lacking their own day get shoehorned in somewhere based on priority and the preconceived notion that every part should receive equal attention. Respectably Utopian, but ultimately deleterious to fitness.

100% correct.
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post #19 of 216
9/23/08 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by keynan View Post
there is NO such thing as overtraining

god shut up
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post #20 of 216
9/23/08 at 12:46pm
I totally agree with Why and Milhouse. Unless your goal is to be Mr. Olympia, why are you training like Mr. Olympia? For general health and fitness a program of progressive strength training using old-school barbell squats, press, deadlifts, pushups, dips, etc. is a heck of a lot better than any bodypart split routine that may try to make you look pretty but is actually pretty useless in any real world application. Check out the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and look into CrossFit and you'll find workouts that are both functional and aesthetically pleasing in the end. Plus, you'll be able to lift heavy shit around the house. Mark has a forum here: http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36 A detailed explanation of CrossFit is here: What is CrossFit? and there are chapters all around the country. I've been doing it for a month after doing Starting Strength since the beginning of the year and I'll never go back to a regular gym and "personal trainers" who advocate bodypart splits and tell you not to squat below parallel. All links WFS
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post #21 of 216
9/24/08 at 2:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Transporter View Post
I totally agree with Why and Milhouse. Unless your goal is to be Mr. Olympia, why are you training like Mr. Olympia? For general health and fitness a program of progressive strength training using old-school barbell squats, press, deadlifts, pushups, dips, etc. is a heck of a lot better than any bodypart split routine that may try to make you look pretty but is actually pretty useless in any real world application.

Check out the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and look into CrossFit and you'll find workouts that are both functional and aesthetically pleasing in the end. Plus, you'll be able to lift heavy shit around the house.

Mark has a forum here: http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36

A detailed explanation of CrossFit is here: What is CrossFit? and there are chapters all around the country. I've been doing it for a month after doing Starting Strength since the beginning of the year and I'll never go back to a regular gym and "personal trainers" who advocate bodypart splits and tell you not to squat below parallel.

All links WFS


Old school? Old school makes you look like Steve Reeves. (BTW you should wear the old style briefs too).

You want to look like that or Jay? Enuff said.
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post #22 of 216
9/24/08 at 5:26am
Bach:

Bi or Tri/wkly, no divvy. <3/4 hr. to obviate cortisol predom.

R.B.
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post #23 of 216
9/24/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Old school? Old school makes you look like Steve Reeves. (BTW you should wear the old style briefs too).

You want to look like that or Jay? Enuff said.

Not sure who Jay is and probably don't want to look like him anyway, especially if he's Mr. Olympia. If all you're doing is bodybuidling I'd love to invite you to a CrossFit workout and see you do a Filthy Fifty.

For time:
50 Box jump, 24 inch box
50 Jumping pull-ups
50 Kettlebell swings, 1 pood
Walking Lunge, 50 steps
50 Knees to elbows
50 Push press, 45 pounds
50 Back extensions
50 Wall ball shots, 20 pound ball
50 Burpees
50 Double unders

Or maybe try this:

"Fight Gone Bad!"

Three rounds of:

Wall-ball, 20# ball, 10' target (reps)
SDHP 75# (reps)
Push-press 75# (reps)
Row (calories)

In this workout you move from each of the five stations after a minute. The clock does not reset or stop between exercises. This is a five-minute round from which a one-minute break is allowed before repeating. On call of "rotate," the athletes must move to the next station immediately for best score. One point is given for each rep, except on the rower where each calorie is one point.

You'd definitely be in better shape physically and aesthetically after these types of workouts than someone who just trains for bodybuilding.
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post #24 of 216
9/24/08 at 9:51pm
If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?
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post #25 of 216
9/24/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post
If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?

I believe this is called willful blindness.
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post #26 of 216
9/25/08 at 12:43am
"If that's true then why do so many crossfit people I see (pics on crossfit.com and founders) look out of shape?"

Looking like a male model has just as much to do with diet than it does with working out. The people who look a bit chubby just don't bother with restricting their diets. The fact they can get through a crossfit workout means they are fit, period. Though it doesn't necessarily mean they are "healthy".

You can exercise anyway you like, but figure out what you want out of it, then pursue those objectives. Some people want to look like male models, other want to bodybuild, still others just want to be as functional as possible. There's really no need to knock someone if they want to do 10 sets of bicep curls every workout! Just realize it might not be as effective as you think it is.

As for overtraining, a good gauge is whether you are actually getting stronger. If you are consistently improving each week then keep on going. If your workouts are really tiring you out and it's not something you look forward to, then reduce your poundage and/or workload and work back up again.
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post #27 of 216
9/25/08 at 12:49am
I'm only responding to someone's ridiculous claim of "You'd definitely be in better shape physically and aesthetically after these types of workouts than someone who just trains for bodybuilding." in the most obvious way I could.
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post #28 of 216
9/25/08 at 12:50am
"i've been doing full body workouts every other day for a couple of months and it takes me about an hour and 20 minutes to get through the routine. while this functions ok, i want to try splitting up the workout, so legs/lower back (i say lower back because of deadlifts) on day one, probably around 14 sets , and upper body on day 2, probably around 18 sets."

Just read the original topic again. I'm no expert, but I've read a few things, so take my advice f what it's worth.

You should not be taking that long to do your workouts. A 1.5 hour full-body workout every other day will lead to overtraining. Your workout should be 1 hour max including rest periods.

What is your actual workout? Care to post it on here.
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post #29 of 216
9/25/08 at 2:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by liyon View Post
You should not be taking that long to do your workouts. A 1.5 hour full-body workout every other day will lead to overtraining. Your workout should be 1 hour max including rest periods.

What is your actual workout? Care to post it on here.

Rubbish! Arnold used to do 20 to 30 sets per workout for more than every alternate day. I suppose he "˜overtrain' to become multiple time Mr Olympia.
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post #30 of 216
9/25/08 at 3:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Rubbish! Arnold used to do 20 to 30 sets per workout for more than every alternate day. I suppose he "˜overtrain' to become multiple time Mr Olympia.

He also took steroids.

Some of you guys are nuts! Most articles and advice from professionals tell you to keep weights to about an hour, every second day. I know that for me, after doing an hour workout I feel totally drained. I also only do each muscle group once per week (except abs, which I do as a warmup every session). My weekly breakdown looks like this:

Monday: Middle & Upper Back + Biceps
Tuesday: Shoulders + lower back + weighted side oblique workout
Thursday: Legs (Quads, Hamstrings, calves)
Friday: Pectorals + Triceps
Saturday: 1 hours swim
Sunday: Running
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