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Of all the "it" menswear brands at the moment, which will survive? - Page 3

post #31 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:13pm
i expect Diesel to keep pulling it out as well.
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post #32 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:15pm
I also think a brand that could produce slim fitting raw denim that sells for $100ish at Macy's would make a fortune.
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post #33 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:24pm
I think a major point is that any many of these companies will change management. Bad management can destroy anything no matter how much brand value it has.
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post #34 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
And Tom Ford is a legend.
I agree and HOPE that Tom Ford makes it. But, unfortunately, I'm just not sure if his pricing strategy and desire to grow as quickly as he's been expanding are going to be able to last for a long, long time. I mean, right now I'm sure his store does well because he's "hot," but when you run an operation with menswear prices that make RLPL look like a bargain and accessories nearing Hermes and Valextra retail... it might be a tough sell to keep going. I think there is certainly a market for people who want a few TF things... but he needs a customer who will keep going to him and I just wonder if the people who are in the market for goods at that price level don't already have their "favorites" picked out. Personally, as much as I love TF and could see myself buying one or two suits just for fun... for "standards" I'd certainly go bespoke and could do it for the same price or less than his RTW. Likewise, for shoes, are they good enough to pull away Lobb buyers, EG buyers, Corthay, etc? Maybe once or twice... but consistently... I don't know.
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post #35 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:47pm
^ FWIW, his NYC store is pretty nice. If I had the money, I'd definitely buy a few Tom Ford things here and there just for fun.
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post #36 of 125
9/9/08 at 8:52pm
^OH, I agree 100%. But, I was just saying that I don't think those of us who would buy a few things for fun are going to keep him in business, especially at those prices. A $4000 duffle and $900 wallet? $700 shirts? And, at the end of the day, all of them licensed through Zegna? I think after the "cool" factor wears off and the "fun" buyers like you and me have our few items, who is going to be left? I don't see Gucci/LV/Prada buyers moving "up," nor do I see Hermes/Valextra/Bespoke/Kiton/Brioni buyers moving over.

Like I said, if ANYBODY can make this thing work, it's TF. I just must admit I don't really see exactly who his longterm client will be.
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post #37 of 125
9/9/08 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post
I think that the pricing on a lot of brand is ridiculous, especially for items like shirts. The market is so saturated with slim fitting shirts at the $200+ price point, that the brand either has to do something to distinguish themselves for me to even give them a look at the price (BoO with its larger collars, larger pockets), or go on massive discount, which probably isn't a good sign. Spending a lot of money on a jacket that will last for 5 years is one thing, but spending the same amount on a shirt that's made in China of questionable fabric and with plastic buttons? No thanks. I think there is a huge market for a store that would sell slim fitting clothes (especially shirts) at a $40-$50 price range, above H&M and below J Crew (which seems to be increasing their prices). In the past Banana Republic has filled this niche, but their clothes seem to get more expensive and uglier each season.
What are you talking about? Have you tried on a Jil Sander and H&M button up in the same day? There's a huge difference in all areas. I've done this a few times while out shopping in boston or new york.Why are you assuming that everything is made in china with bad fabrics and buttons? The quality/materials on some of these brands are very good. Not to mention fit, details and general aesthetic. Just saying, i'm a big bargain hunter too, but there is a difference. The thing is to determine which of these brands is offering the most for the price point. Some of the brands mentioned i'm not that big on though. I generally wait till sale season anyways as there has been a fair amount leftover this past season (maybe due to economy being down?)
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post #38 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:03pm
I think Band of Outsiders are remarkably overrated and overvalued, despite not really being that expensive. Does anybody need to spend $200+ on an average fitting, simple shirt? There are already plenty of designers more than willing to serve that role.
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post #39 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:13pm
BoO is the most outstanding brand on the original list, and i am sure it will be around for a long time. it has a huge following (myself included) and its all about the fit. there is nothing else out there that fits like a BoO shirt, not even close. i would implore anyone to name anyone else making shirts that are as nice as and BoO at the $200-250ish price point, or anyone with the same fit at any cost.

as far as the $200+ prices, i really don't see the issue. personally i never pay much less that that ever for any top other than a t-shirt. i wouldn't be caught dead wearing any of the cheap jcrew/banana/polo crap that a lot of people buy and would gladly pay whatever the cost for a better fitting and better made shirt.
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post #40 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post
I think there is a huge market for a store that would sell slim fitting clothes (especially shirts) at a $40-$50 price range, above H&M and below J Crew (which seems to be increasing their prices). In the past Banana Republic has filled this niche, but their clothes seem to get more expensive and uglier each season.

Agreed. And you know who I think it's going to be? Dov Charney and American Apparel. I've been meaning to check out their oxford button-down and will probably do so this weekend, based on what I've read about its sizing.

But the cut is probably nice and the fabric likely better than an H&M. They've added sunglasses and ties. Are simple white dress shirts far off?

And the other answer is Uniqlo, if it ever expands. But they're already doing it. American Apparel could be the next.
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post #41 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:29pm
Most uniqlo stuff isn't that slim fitting. Their pieces really really vary, as do the fabrics. I really don't like h&m shirts. They don't fit that great on me and i hate the feel of the material. I bought a shirt and pants for a total of $40 last year for a quickie wedding i wasn't prepared for. I never wore the shirt after that and even when i wore the pants with my BoO shirt untucked and my ndcs, the pants just felt and looked kinda blech. If people are down with it, good for them though. Not a huge fan. I'm gonna see what i can do with the pants in terms of hemming/tailoring till they're cropped or pinrolling or something as they don't look good just falling.
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post #42 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskidder View Post
BoO is the most outstanding brand on the original list, and i am sure it will be around for a long time. it has a huge following (myself included) and its all about the fit. there is nothing else out there that fits like a BoO shirt, not even close. i would implore anyone to name anyone else making shirts that are as nice as and BoO at the $200-250ish price point, or anyone with the same fit at any cost.

as far as the $200+ prices, i really don't see the issue. personally i never pay much less that that ever for any top other than a t-shirt. i wouldn't be caught dead wearing any of the cheap jcrew/banana/polo crap that a lot of people buy and would gladly pay whatever the cost for a better fitting and better made shirt.

Maybe in America, but anywhere in Asia you can throw a brick and find a shirt with a better fit and at least decent construction for ~$40. I don't think they can expand internationally, so they're more likely than other brands with international retail potential to fall off.
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post #43 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post
Maybe in America, but anywhere in Asia you can throw a brick and find a shirt with a better fit and at least decent construction for ~$40. I don't think they can expand internationally, so they're more likely than other brands with international retail potential to fall off.

fit is subjective to body type really, but the cut of BoO is definitely unique and i doubt many of the asian stuff you mentioned is as close as you might think. it may be as slim or likely slimmer, but i also bet that the proportions are quite different.

and "decent" construction is shit construction in my book. i don't settle for decent, if i did i wouldn't buy as much BoO as i do, i would get something cheaper that was merely "decent". most of those japanese one-offs are total shit in terms of fabric as well.

overall, i don't see the point of this rationale anyway since BoO actually sells well in japan. i've actually scoured japanese BoO retailers for a few pieces i was missing and the shit is always sold out almost immediately. and they seem to have quite a few international stockists overall.
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post #44 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:49pm
I had no idea BO sold well in Japan, their shirts do? Do you have any numbers or anything, or just anecdotal evidence?
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post #45 of 125
9/9/08 at 10:53pm
no numbers, just noting the quickness with which they sell out on japanese sites. and taking some off-the-record context from a short conversation with someone from the company on a failed attempt to special order an item a while back. i was told that most of the xs's they cut go to japan and that they sell like crazy there. they only sell xs-l in japan where here they go up to xxl and only a few american stockists buy xs regualrly.
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