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The Official MMA thread - Page 351

post #5251 of 5436
WAR Shogun and Machida
post #5252 of 5436
Great card so far. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #5253 of 5436
Bader played right into Machida's game plan.
post #5254 of 5436
post #5255 of 5436
Machida is back foo.gif Can`t say the same for Shogun

The Dragon KO`s a lot of fighters that have never been KO`d. Thiago Silva, Rashad, Bader, etc.
post #5256 of 5436
That was karate point fighting 101. Lyoto has probably practiced that reverse punch counter a hundred thousand times. Once you cross kicking range on a shotokan guy you need to account for the rear hand or you will eat a reverse punch. I've eaten many of those and still don't have an answer.
post #5257 of 5436
that was a good card, great fights.
post #5258 of 5436

Did he need to keep throwing punches after the guy was knocked out and on his back unable to defend himself?

post #5259 of 5436
it looks clear in the replay (slow motion) but with adrenaline, real time, and your career on the line, it isn't as clear in the moment. He definitely got an extra shot (or two in there though).
post #5260 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressedWell View Post

Did he need to keep throwing punches after the guy was knocked out and on his back unable to defend himself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrb View Post

it looks clear in the replay (slow motion) but with adrenaline, real time, and your career on the line, it isn't as clear in the moment. He definitely got an extra shot (or two in there though).

Yep. What Machida did wasn't nearly as blatant as what Swick did earlier in the evening to Johnson. Two big shots after Johnson was clearly out. And I don't blame Swick, I blame Herb Dean.
post #5261 of 5436
I don`t even think it`s questionable. Had to keep throwing until the refs come in and stop you. Weidman vs. Munoz was a terribly late stoppage.
post #5262 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by retronotmetro View Post

That was karate point fighting 101. Lyoto has probably practiced that reverse punch counter a hundred thousand times. Once you cross kicking range on a shotokan guy you need to account for the rear hand or you will eat a reverse punch. I've eaten many of those and still don't have an answer.

The "counter" is to not charge into the strongest defensive position in karate, and Shotokan/Shotokai karate in particular. I've seen entire karate matches where neither opponent moves to attack, because they can't find the weakness in that defensive stance.

Honestly, one good way, and I'm only half joking here, to figure out how to attack Machida would be to watch kungfu movies. The Chinese and Japanese have never been great friends, and there is inevitably a scene in which a Chinese Kung Fu Master fights a Karate master. The main criticism of karate is that it is too linear (notice that Machida doesn't really have any attack off of the lateral, just defense), and that the defenses are not well geared towards multifaceted attacks from different angles, levels, and in bunches. There are a lot of Kung Fu styles where the footwork is geared to set up attacks from lateral movements and from different angles and levels. For example, a very common Kung Fu attack is to step to the side and use a ridge hand or a "hook" that essentially has the arm hooking to the side of the body. The head is protected from attack from the side you lean to by the other hand and arm, and the body is a full side step away from where the karate front kick and punch naturally land. the trailing leg naturally drags so that you end up on the side of the karateka as well. Kung Fu punches, an specifically Southern Fist Sil lum styles are also some of the fastest and most varied in all Martial Arls, though not that most powerful, and you can throw off a half dozen before someone can say "Your mom is ugly".

Bader attacked the strongest position Machida has, in the worst possible way, with a single bomb. Shotokan fighters are specifically geared to evading a single attack and counterattacking.

The problem, imo, with MMA, is that despite its beginnings, it's really has developed a canon - boxing, Muy Thai, wrestling, BJJ, which is really only a small subset of the entirety of martial arts that are not going to allow you to solve many, even most, of the problems of some unorthodox fighters. For example, you are not going to beat JDS if you consider him a boxer. His footwork is completely not. He leans heavy on his back foot, and when he throws, he changes quickly to his front, which makes it easier for him to cover tons of distance, and then he draws the front foot back, and then readjusts his backfoot. This allows him to come in and out wuickly. Even the fastest guy in the world could not cover that distance using conventional boxing footwork.

Getting back to Machida. I think that fighters would do well to put on a gi and train at a straight up Karate dojo, so that they know what his base is, and how he thinks, and the basis of his movements. There are a lot of decent shotokan schools out there.
post #5263 of 5436
Fok in my opinion is partially right. Being a linear fighter in a quadrilateral world won't cut it. Watch the video again. Any decent fighter that can throw a reverse punch would have knocked Bader out..
Lyoto was firm in his base. blocked a looping haymaker and drove a text book reverse punch to a unprotected face. Baders should was down and chin was up. Baders punch attack was horrible!!
Basics rule supreme and Bader didn't follow the basics. It's that simple.
post #5264 of 5436
Anyone watch UFC 150? Another controversial decision for a Frankie Edgar fight. I scored it for Edgar, 48-47, but I understand how two judges could score it the other way. At least we won't see any more rematches for the LW title fight for awhile. Henderson looked really passive after getting rocked in the second round. He better step up his performance if he hopes to beat Nate Diaz.
post #5265 of 5436
^^^ agree. i also had it scored 48-47 for edgar but it was close. henderson was being (for him) tentative and didn't seem as confident as he has in the past. The five rounds might be a bit much for him with the weight cut for now. The Cerrone and Guillard, was a bit a of s*it show, ended quicker than expected.
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